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Old 2015-08-14, 11:39   Link #25641
DragonOsman
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Can you summarize what you read? Look over the Volume editions real quick and post a summary here. Is that possible?
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Old 2015-08-14, 16:44   Link #25642
Alhazad2003
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I'm afraid not, posting chapter summaries are against Forum Rules, so it seems we're both out of luck in that regard.

And I'm reluctant to actually obtain the actual volumes, especially if they try to explain how Omote isn't Akasha even though she herself says she is in the last chapter. Seems to me they're trying to have it both ways, and I call bullcrap on that. Again, a disappointing ending to a great story. What a shame.
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Old 2015-08-14, 17:44   Link #25643
DragonOsman
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Akihisa himself made those Volume editions and appended the information onto them. I think we should just take that as the official stand. It's like a clarification of what happened, from Akasha's own mouth apparently.

Edit: I just saw it. Man.
Tsukune's calling Akasha "Moka" and they're talking like the real Moka isn't even there. Just like in the magazine edition. But the explanation Akasha gives in the Volume edition is that Omote was a clone of her, and that the moment she was separated from her, she was just another personality of Moka. So at the end of the day, Omote was just an artificial personality based off of Akasha, a clone. And she was a part of Moka's personality from the time she separated from Akasha when Akasha put the Rosary on Moka.

And we also get an exposition about what everyone's doing and is going to be doing after the ending. You should read it.
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Old 2015-08-14, 20:03   Link #25644
Mach56gs
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Basically what Dragon said.

I've already gone into great length as to proving why Akasha is not Omote, and the updated volume quite literally has Akasha say that. So I'd advise you to follow Dragon's advice, Alhazad. It is vague and hard to see without the direct dialogue that occurs in the volume pages, so definitely follow through with that.
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Old 2015-08-15, 11:41   Link #25645
DragonOsman
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Agreed.

I'm just wondering, though: some of the plot-points mentioned in the Afterward and Epilogue in the Volume edition got a "But that's a story for another time". But we still don't know when or if there'll ever be an "another time". Can't someone send Akihisa a Tweet demanding it? Anyone?
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Old 2015-08-15, 13:15   Link #25646
Mach56gs
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Originally Posted by DragonOsman View Post
Agreed.

I'm just wondering, though: some of the plot-points mentioned in the Afterward and Epilogue in the Volume edition got a "But that's a story for another time". But we still don't know when or if there'll ever be an "another time". Can't someone send Akihisa a Tweet demanding it? Anyone?
Aww, c'mon! The statement "That's a story for another time" is a classic "end-of-fairy-tale" closing statement.

Although I DO love it as it opens the door to a follow-up, a future story for us to read, its best that we don't get lost in the possibility. Let Ikeda be, he did a jolly good job and let him rest a bit xP
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Old 2015-08-15, 15:40   Link #25647
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There will be no follow up, or sequels, or timeskips, or anything of the sort. RosaVamp dropped immensely in the ratings and was steadily declining in sales too. There is no prayer of a future for this series.
Stop trying to put false hope into the heads of people. All that needed to be said has been said.
The harem problem was solved in the following way; Moka became a little more like Omote after spending more time together with Tsukune and co, she got to keep Tsukune all to herself in their daily life. Kurumu and Mizore devised a plan to "get a piece of the cake" too by invading Tsukune's dreams with Mizore's powers. It's implied that they will have their way with him at some point too.
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Old 2015-08-15, 19:51   Link #25648
DragonOsman
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I know that the other girls decided to be with Tsukune in his dreams using Kurumu's powers (Mizore is the Yuki-Onna and the Succubus is Kurumu - you seem to have gotten them mixed up in your post). The part with the details about Yukari and that Chinese guy who is a descendant of Touhou Fuhai whose name I can't remember were also glossed over with a "but that's a story for another time". We do know that he becomes like a second-coming of Touhou Fuhai with his powers and talent, and that Yukari becomes a strong witch who supports him at his side (is this implying that Yukari isn't in Tsukune's harem but will actually marry that Chinese guy in the future? It does seem that way, at least).

It was mentioned that Fairy Tale would still be opposing Tsukune and his friends, with a new leader, and we don't have a clear resolution on that plot-point yet, either. Fairy Tale not having been completely defeated yet might point to a possible continuation. But yeah, a follow-up doesn't seem likely because of what you've said.

Edit: I also want to add this, though: I'm happy that Moka and Tsukune hooked up in the end, but the part where she's still drinking his blood even now bugs me a bit. After all, with him also being a vampire now (he did become a full-fledged vampire and a Shinso, just like Moka), isn't she committing cannibalism by drinking his blood? I think they should both get their blood sustenance from tomato juice and blood-transfusion packs from now on.
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Old 2015-08-15, 20:42   Link #25649
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Tsukune's blood is her comfort food. Nothing nutritional about it - it just tastes good to her.
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Old 2015-08-16, 02:57   Link #25650
Alhazad2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonOsman View Post
Akihisa himself made those Volume editions and appended the information onto them. I think we should just take that as the official stand. It's like a clarification of what happened, from Akasha's own mouth apparently.

Edit: I just saw it. Man.
Tsukune's calling Akasha "Moka" and they're talking like the real Moka isn't even there. Just like in the magazine edition. But the explanation Akasha gives in the Volume edition is that Omote was a clone of her, and that the moment she was separated from her, she was just another personality of Moka. So at the end of the day, Omote was just an artificial personality based off of Akasha, a clone. And she was a part of Moka's personality from the time she separated from Akasha when Akasha put the Rosary on Moka.

And we also get an exposition about what everyone's doing and is going to be doing after the ending. You should read it.
Found it, thanks to you know who.

I love some of the additions, especially the bemused expression on Alucard's face after he's beheaded. That was funny. Not to mention him regaining his favorite cigarette even after being overthrown by Akasha. Yes, nothing will stand between him and his cancer sticks, nothing at all!

And while I'm glad Akasha actually spoke warmly of Moka, so she doesn't look as shallow as she did in the original, still, that explanation she gave seems a bit iffy to me. Especially since she still talks like she was Omote all along. That's what I got from reading between the lines. And the part that Miyabi actually wanted to reveal monsterkind to the world, that also seems a bit iffy. He had a very pertinent reason to destroy all humans, and then doesn't follow through? I know Akihisa was trying to make him look sympathetic, though somehow I didn't feel very convinced by it.

And why is Akuha the new clan leader if Issa is still alive? There was nothing of him retiring, I'd think he'd be glad to regain his "throne" after being usurped by Alucard's machinations. Don't mind me, I get vexed when plot points don't make sense. And the story stopped making sense during the last parts of the Rescue Moka arc, sad to say. Too much Disney magic and contradicting past story elements. Not the way I'd have ended the story, not at all.
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Old 2015-08-16, 13:37   Link #25651
DragonOsman
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I'm still convinced by the explanation Akasha gave in the Volume edition, though. I don't think she's saying that she's Omote, but rather she is saying that Omote was a clone of her that she created which became a part of Moka as soon as the Rosary with the choker was placed around her neck and the spell was activated.

I'm also confused about Akuha becoming the new Clan Head while Issa is still alive. What the hell happened there?

I've got no problems with the Disney magic thing here. I guess I never thought anything of it.
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Old 2015-08-16, 15:58   Link #25652
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Originally Posted by DragonOsman View Post
I'm still convinced by the explanation Akasha gave in the Volume edition, though. I don't think she's saying that she's Omote, but rather she is saying that Omote was a clone of her that she created which became a part of Moka as soon as the Rosary with the choker was placed around her neck and the spell was activated.

I'm also confused about Akuha becoming the new Clan Head while Issa is still alive. What the hell happened there?

I've got no problems with the Disney magic thing here. I guess I never thought anything of it.
You assume Issa cares. The way I see it is he just didn't try. He would have lost a lot of face for what happened and the world has changed so much and the old ways that he was a stickler for got them into much of this mess so he's letting the new blood deal with it (remember Akuha is somewhat pro living with humans)
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Old 2015-08-19, 14:21   Link #25653
Alhazad2003
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You assume Issa cares. The way I see it is he just didn't try. He would have lost a lot of face for what happened and the world has changed so much and the old ways that he was a stickler for got them into much of this mess so he's letting the new blood deal with it (remember Akuha is somewhat pro living with humans)
Yet that only proves Akuha was redeemed way too easily. The whole "Akasha authorized the whole thing" is complete BS in my book. Yes, I know Akihisa was a stickler for showing everyone can change, but it has to look believable. Akuha's "redemption" looked anything but believable, so she shouldn't have been allowed back into the clan, let alone lead it.

And I really can't blame Issa for that whole debacle, he trusted Akasha to handle everything, and had Moka not returned she would have. Then he gets overthrown and secretly replaced by an impostor, whom apparently fools even Gyokuro (who personally should've known better, heck any of them could've realized it wasn't Issa if they just smelled him. Come on, vampires are not supposed to be that dumb). But I suppose that's a moot point now, a disappointing end to an otherwise wonderful story. What a shame.
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Old 2015-08-19, 19:06   Link #25654
DragonOsman
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Did Akasha allow it, though? And Kagato at least didn't mention Akasha in that post you quoted.

About the fake Issa, how do you know Gyokuro wasn't in on that? She probably was.

As for what you said about Akasha being able to have taken care of the whole debacle had Moka not come back, can you really blame Moka for this? She'd forgotten the Rosary and wanted to go back to get it, remember? That wasn't really anybody's fault.
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Old 2015-08-19, 20:22   Link #25655
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Yet that only proves Akuha was redeemed way too easily. The whole "Akasha authorized the whole thing" is complete BS in my book. Yes, I know Akihisa was a stickler for showing everyone can change, but it has to look believable. Akuha's "redemption" looked anything but believable, so she shouldn't have been allowed back into the clan, let alone lead it.

And I really can't blame Issa for that whole debacle, he trusted Akasha to handle everything, and had Moka not returned she would have. Then he gets overthrown and secretly replaced by an impostor, whom apparently fools even Gyokuro (who personally should've known better, heck any of them could've realized it wasn't Issa if they just smelled him. Come on, vampires are not supposed to be that dumb). But I suppose that's a moot point now, a disappointing end to an otherwise wonderful story. What a shame.
No, it out right says Gyokuro knew it was an imposter and that he was part of her plan. Also the guy was a doppelganger which we know from the first story can copy everything including smell.

As for Aqua being redeemed it's pretty clear she was doing everything to protect Moka and felt Tsukune was only using her since she only had 3rd hand information and a habit of not hearing people out. There really wasn't much for her to be redeemed for.
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Old 2015-08-20, 10:30   Link #25656
DragonOsman
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^Except for being a total ass to people. She was part of the reason why Fairy Tale was going around killing people. And she did want to awaken Alucard, which she was ready to use Moka for. She loved Moka as a sister, but her way of showing that love was twisted and screwed up. But yeah, the rest of what you said I can agree with.
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Old 2015-10-09, 02:27   Link #25657
jkarcanus
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Post First post here and my initial thoughts

Hi all! I'm new to this forum and I very recently finished watching season 1 and 2 of the anime. After being very disappointed I reluctantly read the manga, much to my relief. They were very much better and while there are a number of plot holes and unanswered questions (not sure which bothers me more...probably the plot holes :P) it is one of the better manga's I've read in this genre...at least until he started to get lazy with it but I powered through to the end. Anyway, I just wanted to air my thoughts since none of my friends have read this yet and my mind won't quiet until I get them down lest it forget some of them. Once I'd done that I figured I may as well share them.

As much as enjoyed it, the real issue here for me, regardless of whether one considers Omote to be Akasha or not is...in what way was the template of Akasha supposedly protecting Moka or the seal to begin with?

I can understand the need the seal away her Shinso blood/power so as to make the sealing feasible and not inadvertantly reawaken him afterwards again at some point. This is fine, but it doesn't make sense that this also means imprisoning her soul and let what is effectively an AI run around in her body. It doesn't seem that the seal was made with this purpose in mind beforehand else she would not have allowed Moka to simply leave for the human world after discaring it...this would have been an issue to be forced, I would think, by making her put it before putting her in the car(though it does make more sense if it was). Instead, as Touhou said, during the memory, it was originally a way to protect her daughter via their connection, so she was likely changing things on the fly during the sealing process. Either way, it does what it does and she then states that the seal is designed to come off eventually. This is, I reckon, supposed to make it ok since it means she won't be imprisoned permanently....but doesn't that simply mean that she plans on letting Alucard have a chance at waking again then? If she hadn't imprisoned her daughter in the process, she could have just let the seal be permanent and not removable on accident by some nobody (on a completely different topic, I wouldn't mind the whole "it will only open for someone who truly loves you" bit if it wouldn't have done so until she had actually found someone who loved her after having gotten to know her rather than him being "a destined one" and able to do so the day they meet...that's just goofy). Sure Moka would have been weaker, but she could have grown up as herself and Alucard wakening would not be chanced, and just as protected as having an even weaker version of mom pretending to be her. Further, she could still have "put herself into the seal" to safeguard it without sealing Moka away and simply be a presence(memories and all) that can be awakened with need prevent tampering with it or its destruction (a la Kushina from Naruto)...or even to come out once in a while if Moka is overwhelmed (in an ironic reversal of the way things were actually implemented). This seems far more inline with the seals intent, even with the modifications. And what if she hadn't met this "destined one" that is supposed to be able to remove it for many more years...or worse ever. Moka'd either wake up however many years later having only experience the life of a ten year old but in a body that potentially has married and borne children before its even attempted to be removed...or end up imprisoned forever while her mother's reincarnation get a second chance at life. She claims a) she wants to protect her daughter, at which she acquits herself adequately and b) she wants her daughter's happiness...but nothing she does seems aimed at the later in the way she goes about it.

If for some reason it is necessary to seal Moka away as well...I still don't see how Omote was protecting her body. All she did was live in her stead. At most it can be said she was at least not allowing the body to go to waste (though a cruel sentiment). Psychologically speaking Moka would have been better off simply staying in a coma until woken by her "destined one" than waking to find herself playing second fiddle in her own body to someone who thinks she's her. This then makes me feel almost as bad for Omote since not only is she so unsure and confused and lonely at first before she represses it all and simply picks up where the real Moka left off, but later to find that out about herself as well...not only feeling so unsure and confused all over again but guilty as well even though it isn't her fault, but her creator. You can't really blame Omote for living a life she thought was hers, either way, (and you certainly can't hate her as she is so gentle and kind) but it's still supremely unfair to the girl she replaces.

As it is a ten year old was not only imprisoned for five years, but asleep so that she can't even use those years to grow and experience the world even second hand. So she wakes up for the first time in five years...in a fight...in a body half again her age....that's gotta be quite a jarring shock even if she is capable in the fight. Of course its not represented that way...for some reason she's even more mature, magically. On top of that she starts off far colder than makes any sense for this scenario. He gave inner Moka great character development, but it honestly shouldn't have had to be quite that drastic. The ten year old Moka had a loving expressive relationship with her sisters and other family before she was sealed...it's not like she was a robot.

If a personality change/sealing was for some reason necessary so as to facilitate and explain the basic premise behind the whole story, it would have made much more sense that Akasha split her daughter into yin and yang, with both fully conscience and experiencing what the other does from their own perspective but only one active at a time depending on whether sealed or not, with the light half the default sealed state....they can then slowly merge more an more as the seal weakens. This allows her to have both a personality more conducive to living happily in the human world (and its actually Moka doing the living) and one more conducive to the type of fighting that will one day be required of her...and a fuller person strong in all those aspects in the end once they finally fully merge. It would also explain the personality difference between her 10 year old self and the colder 15 years old inner Moka. This is what a mother would want for her daughter AND it serves the full purpose of the basic premise...all without being so overly cruel to the real Moka (or the fake one for that matter). Even with the "fake personality" reveal, I thought there would be a twist and was hoping it would be revealed to be more like this (obviously not exactly as it would require many other difference but close enough). Also this makes the merging of the two feel right instead of forced and/or wrong as it would have for a simple fake personality and as it does even more so in the current case of the mothers template as the epilogue suggests (I think most would agree in this regard whatever their opinion of Omote).

As for the Omote/Askaha debate itself...I'm not getting into the argument of if she is or isn't at this juncture, as it's meaningless to my point; at the very least she was a clone of her, either way, as some keep reiterating. My stance is that the idea of the clone becoming part of the one true mocha the instant of the spell is ludicrous at best and, like many others here feel that doesn't make it suddenly okay even were it true, as the difference is so very minor to what was originally posited. It's just that it's the most he could get away with changing to appease fans since it had already been established without a complete rewrite, which wasn't going to happen. In either case it still was displacing, merging, or both. Any artificial mental/spiritual construct that isn't made of your own essence that merges with or overwrites a part of you is at best brainwashing and at worst replacing you. In either case you are no longer your true self and Omote certainly can't be considered a part of her in this since. This does an extreme dishonor to Ura's own personal growth saying by writing it off as not her, but simply a further effect of her mother's injected presence. The only scenario just a merge wouldn't feel unjust is the one in the previous paragraph.

Speaking of disappointments, the final showdown with Alucard and the three Dark Lords was majorly lame and so overly anticlimactic that I may have actually sweatdropped irl. I didn't mind much at all up until the moment Akasha was unsealed...or rather just after...the unsealing itself was alright...I guess. Everything thereafter was some combination of either unrealistic to the situation, overly rushed, and a twist in the wrong direction. Further, not only was the epilogue just....terrible, but it pretty much sweeps all the angst from the final chapters under the rug and while trying to further explain away the bull all while blanantly not providing the true wrapup.

As for Tsukune himself, I'm not a huge fan, but he's way better than Minato from Sekirei, for instance. I started to like him a bit better as season II of the manga progressed, but his few powerups were too instantaneous and require no effort at all on his part, which detact a lot from him. I like the concept of a harem manga if well executed and it makes sense that the protagonist is a person who would garner such affection, but that's not the case here...it's simply because the author says so. Even were that the case, his words and actions almost never align, and he far too often simply tells the girls either what they want to hear, what's expected, or lies outright to avoid the awkwardness. It's very clear even at the end that while he has grown to care for Ura and doesnt want to see her hurt or think less of herself due to their circumstances, he doesnt love her or any of the girls the way he did Omote, if at all (until the aforementioned happy fun times epilogue @_@).


As a further note, I completely concur with Alhazad2003 last few recent posts in this regard, but this post is already too long to bother quoting them.

Other questions or things that don't make sense
=================================================
Why is Moka's last name Akashiya? All of her half-sisters have her father's name. Even if one might say they wanted to give her her mother's name instead...they didn't....it makes no sense at all.
Where the hell was Issa this whole time when his deranged wife took over the family and became the figurehead leader of a group that seems to oppose all he and Akasha wanted for the world with Moka?
Where did Kokoa live after the sealing...it doesn't seem to make sense that she lived with her mother and sisters these last six years with all that was going on.
Why does Omote have green eyes instead of red...even Akasha had red slit eyes?

I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting but it's late aleady.
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Old 2015-10-09, 03:31   Link #25658
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@jkarcanus
Mate, just takes it the easy way. This series was originally meant to be ecchi comedy instead of a serious fantasy. The original idea is "A human boy meeting a vampire girl with double personality and their daily life". Everything else was just added to the plot later so obviously many plot hole will occur.
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Old 2015-10-09, 14:53   Link #25659
Mach56gs
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Holy text dumbs batman! Nice to meet you Jkarcanus, love to see another Rosario Vampire reader!

Lets knock off some simple questions:

Where was Issa? He was captured by Gyokuro during her Coup D'etat. Thus unable to really be a player until the epilogue.

Omote has green eyes due to the fact that her vampiric nature is suppressed.

Akashiya? Well her mother was the second wife and thus she retained her mother's name because of that arrangement.

Now... More paragraphy stuff! My opinions about the things you had opinions on!

Tsukune: Well, the champ did have to change on a genetic level, as well as take a severe amount of physical damage and strain throughout both seasons. I view him as someone who tried and failed to straddle the line of human/monster, but eventually came out of the struggle wiser and more determined. His powerups were pretty crazy, but they almost ruined everything at the same time, remember!

Ura brainwashed? If learning and basing your experiences off of your relation with your mother is considered brainwashing, we're all mindless automatons. A clear point to remind everyone is that Ura did not exactly retain Omote's memories, thoughts, or whatever, only the souls remained entwined. That could be interpreted in many many ways. Ura's growth in the first season was the most enjoyable to watch, the second season was a culmination and was nice all the same, but you shouldn't let the Omote's true nature fool you from Ura's growth as a character. Omote was a passive influence on Moka, slowly helping her gather a group of friends and develop social skills, not a malignant brainwashing entity that over-wrote or influenced Moka's thoughts directly.

Omote/Ura: I agree that it was pretty cruel to kill of Omote but it was a bit more realistic: Splitting Moka into Yin and Yang would separate her best qualities with her worst... And of course that would be an absolute nightmare to deal with and wouldn't have worked.
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Old 2015-10-09, 18:34   Link #25660
DragonOsman
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Agreed^. But on Moka's last name, I think the main confusion is the Y in there. But there was also some chapters I read that were translated to have Moka's last name be read as "Akasha" instead of "Akashya". Either way, though, the Y sound in Japanese is apparently miniscule enough for it to not matter.

On the whole thing with Ura and Omote, and the merger, we should also look at the Tankouban Volume version of Akasha's explanation about Omote.

I talked about it in the post you'll see in this link: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...36#post5621936. Post #25643:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonOsman View Post
Akihisa himself made those Volume editions and appended the information onto them. I think we should just take that as the official stand. It's like a clarification of what happened, from Akasha's own mouth apparently.

Edit: I just saw it. Man.
Tsukune's calling Akasha "Moka" and they're talking like the real Moka isn't even there. Just like in the magazine edition. But the explanation Akasha gives in the Volume edition is that Omote was a clone of her, and that the moment she was separated from her, she was just another personality of Moka. So at the end of the day, Omote was just an artificial personality based off of Akasha, a clone. And she was a part of Moka's personality from the time she separated from Akasha when Akasha put the Rosary on Moka.

And we also get an exposition about what everyone's doing and is going to be doing after the ending. You should read it.
In the Epilogue in the Tankouban Volume Edition, although Tsukune himself chose Moka, Kurumu decided to use her Succubus powers to allow the other girls, as well as herself, to be with Tsukune in the Dream World. She can do this because she rules over the Dream World due to being a Succubus. So in the series' reality, it's Tsukune x Moka, and in the Dream World, it's Tsukune x all of the other girls.
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