2013-09-13, 19:13 | Link #2881 | ||||
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Let's say Roland's maximum power is 5. Sophie is 2. Ellen is 2. And for the sake of this example, Tigre is 1. Now, because while Sophie and Ellen can attack at the same time, they can't actually combine the power of their attacks. Since 5 > 2, by more than 2x, Roland can use half his power, or one hand to stop each of their attacks. Now Tigre enters the equation. Because his bow absorbs the power from the other attacks, the total power is 2+2+1 = 5. In this example, Tigre's bow is not by itself more powerful than either Viralt, but with their help, can generate an attack that is much greater. Quote:
To take an example from horror stories, to kill a vampire, you're supposed to stick a wooden stake through their heart. A wooden stake, by any measure, is far less powerful than an industrial hydraulic press. Yet no one will ever suggest the way to kill Dracula is to shove him in a trash compactor. Or if you're trying to kill a werewolf, only silver will do. That nuke? No such luck, unless it's somehow laced with silver. Just to restate, I have no stance on whether the bow is more or less powerful than the Viralts. The examples I have chosen are only to illustrate why as indicators of power, the story bits you have chosen are inconclusive at best. Last edited by Rasen; 2013-09-13 at 19:25. |
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2013-09-13, 20:12 | Link #2882 | |
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2013-09-13, 20:25 | Link #2883 | ||
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2013-09-13, 21:18 | Link #2884 | ||||
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Ships - what ship did he shoot? Swords -what swords did he shoot? And why is he shooting them? Dragons - What dragons? The first dragon in volume 1, was killed by Ellen alone. The second dragon in volume 1 was killed by the bow + the viralt. The bow has yet to have been used to kill a single dragon by itself. In volume 4, the five dragons were killed by Ellen and Mira. Quote:
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It seems more telling that Vodyanoy smiles at her speech, so he most likely knows she's wrong. Quote:
2) No one said the weapons were dragon-slayers. Just that they are draconic tools. That could mean anything, including: "made from dragons" or "similar powers to dragons" 3) Like I said, Tigre didn't one-shot anything BY HIMSELF. He borrowed power from Ellen. And the dragon wasn't wearing a fancy anti-magic collar. I don't know if by itself the bow is more or less powerful than a viralt. But these statements are just wrong. Last edited by Rasen; 2013-09-13 at 22:03. |
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2013-09-13, 22:42 | Link #2885 | ||
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and that is why the user of the bow is already precious enough that it cannot compare to any other user's of viralt.. |
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2013-09-13, 23:13 | Link #2886 | ||||
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Pirate ships in volume 7 (three of them). All sank. A huge giant hole in the middle. Sword as in Roland's Sword. Dragon= one shot is one shot. I've already said that absorbing energy is beside the point. The bow is able to do it and the other dragonic weapons aren't. Quote:
From what I've seen thus far, the weapon isn't more effective against dragons or demons and there certaintly hasn't been any evidence that suggests so (unless you can point them out). Also, yes, the demons are still alive. But have you noticed the damage done to the demons by the dragonic weapons? Barely a scratch. The bow is at least able to severely injure the demons enough to make them afraid and retreat. The one exception is the demon that Sasha is fighting at the end of volume 7, but that fight is inconclusive and will continue. Quote:
It was told to her by the previous wielder who happens to be her mother. Ludimira isn't playing semantics here. It was clear as daylight. The purpose of the weapon is to defeat demons (and the "frog" in front her was clearly a demon). The "demon" in this text actually refers to demons. If we're getting into semantics here, there is nothing here to argue. And the demon's response can be interpreted as to exactly why the bow is superior. The demon could care less about the spear while he showed genuine fear against the bow. Furthermore, it's clear from the later conversations (Gallard conversation about when the next user of the Sword will come up) that Roland's Sword and Tigre's Bow are worth far more attention than the Dragonic Weapons. EDIT: For clarification sake, I've added the translation of the excerpt you're looking for. In my hand, I have two separate sources (one of which is the publisher). "The Lavias in my hand is known as the 'Spear of Evil Death.' According to the previous generation's Vanadis, this weapon is used to combat demons. And right now, there is a demon standing in front of me." Quote:
Even if you don't buy this "compounding" argument, the fact of the matter is that the full potential of the bow is suggested to be far greater. By itself, it has been shown in flashback to nuke a city and in the present, literally blow a giant cavern out into the sky (in the shape of a Black Dragon). By comparison, we've seen the Spear and Sword go at each other at full power and it didn't generate remotely the destructive power of the sacred cavern instance. Last edited by whsie; 2013-09-13 at 23:51. Reason: Added in translation of the text. |
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2013-09-14, 00:00 | Link #2887 | ||||||||||||||||||
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If I want to get to the shopping mall, I "borrow" the power of a car. If I get in a tug-of-war match with the car, I will lose. Badly. That sucker has 250 horsepower, and I do not. Quote:
On the other hand, the time SOMETHING fired off into the sky when Batran died, that was very impressive. Maybe that's the level of power he'll be able to achieve when he masters the bow. Who knows. Quote:
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This is not saying that Tigre could not, but since he has yet to do so, this argument as a measure of POWER is invalid. Quote:
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And again, Ellen and Mira both one-shot dragons as well, withOUT borrowing power. IF Tigre can't one-shot a dragon without borrowing power, then the bow is weaker than a viralt. (unless the Viralts do more damage against dragons) Quote:
Again, I'm not saying that this MUST be the case. But I am making the point that just because something seems to be more effective against a specific enemy, is no proof of RELATIVE power. Quote:
The same could almost be said for the demons, since he hasn't managed to hit one yet WITHOUT power from a viralt. EXCEPT that the demons have expressed some concern about the bow, so it's a safe bet it has SOME effect on them. Quote:
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I'm arguing based the translations I have seen. If you have different information, by all means, provide it. Quote:
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2. It's a nifty ability that makes it special, sure. But that's a DIFFERENT argument than if it's more POWERFUL. Quote:
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If we look at the manga (which may be inaccurate) when Ellen uses Arifal, a bronze dragon is also about the size of a small house. Given that she basically wiped it off the face of the earth, plus the cut to the earth itself, and the damage seems comparable. And again, I point to the sniper rifle vs. grenade comparison in terms of power. Just because something can travel further doesn't mean it's more powerful. Quote:
More to the point, if we assume this is correct, then it really does lend more weight to the argument that the reason the demons care about the bow and sword more than the Viralts is because of something OTHER than the damage output. The demons are basically saying "Weapons used to kill us? Pffft, we don't care about those." Last edited by Rasen; 2013-09-14 at 00:14. |
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2013-09-14, 00:02 | Link #2888 |
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I supose this needs to be pointed out but the viralts although powerfull individually were given to the seven wifes of the first king, is my understanding that his wish was to the vanadis to fight together covering for each other weakness and protecting the king while the bow and durandal were for individual warriors (until some source says other thing) hence diferences in raw power are to be espected.
Well that was only my uneducated opinion. |
2013-09-14, 00:16 | Link #2889 | |
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2013-09-14, 01:14 | Link #2890 | |
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2013-09-14, 02:19 | Link #2892 | |
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That would be a pretty effective measure of power though, as it is (several) non-supernatural targets with no special defense, though I am curious as to the size of the holes. Not saying they're wrong, but I don't feel like taking someone else's word for it. Last edited by Rasen; 2013-09-14 at 02:45. |
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2013-09-14, 15:31 | Link #2895 | |
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2013-09-14, 15:33 | Link #2896 | |
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action, ecchi, fantasy, harem, light novel, mf bunko j, politics, romance, seinen, strategy, true harem, war(s) |
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