Macross Frontier - Episode 06 Discussion / Poll

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

The one thing I would like to avoid in this series is yet another meaningless pairing war...I'm sick of reading posts on every anime that has a love triangle about who will win out in the end...

I know it's part of the story but thats not the main focus. What about the meachs, dog fights in space, secret behind the aliens attacking humanity, and why Altoh dislikes his family so much...I could go on and on but to get straight to the point...What I'm saying is there is more to a series then just a paring...

Hear, hear. I can't even watch the opening because it's so gooey and love triangly. Not that I mind seeing the relationships develope, but I really am getting tired of seeing "I love Sheryl so much! I'm sure she'll end up with Alto in the end!" And people just plain getting ahead of the storyline, and speculation about who'd make a better couple, or whatever. Just causes alot of bad blood if you ask me.

I'd much rather just watch the characters and enjoy them without resentments brought on by the words of others.

[Anh_Minh]

If you can't take stupid, heated disagreements over trivial things, then maybe reading the internet isn't for you....

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Hear, hear. I can't even watch the opening because it's so gooey and love triangly. Not that I mind seeing the relationships develope, but I really am getting tired of seeing "I love Sheryl so much! I'm sure she'll end up with Alto in the end!" And people just plain getting ahead of the storyline, and speculation about who'd make a better couple, or whatever. Just causes alot of bad blood if you ask me.

There's no harm in screwing your brain over trying to figure out what kind of development the characters will be getting.

So what are we supposed to do, throw out things like "omigosh, VF-25 is making eyes at RVF-25!!!"? (Which I'm sure they secretly are anyway.) :|

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

If you can't take stupid, heated disagreements over trivial things, then maybe reading the internet isn't for you....

Nothing is worse than pairing wars. Nothing. I still have war wounds from the Cleris/Clifa forumwars from the late 90s and early whatever-the-hell-we-call-this-decade. Though I don't think we'll be seeing hundreds of hate *insert character name* pages being wiped up overnight because of Frontier, like it was then.

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Nothing is worse than pairing wars. Nothing. I still have war wounds from the Cleris/Clifa forumwars from the late 90s and early whatever-the-hell-we-call-this-decade. Though I don't think we'll be seeing hundreds of hate *insert character name* pages being wiped up overnight because of Frontier, like it was then.

It's not Clifa, it's Cloti.

Oh, look a survivor, LOL, I fought with my Cleris warriors in the frontlines in that same decade. Now, we have stupid young and adult fanbrats so obsessed over the love triangle and so intent on exploding it with stupid wank that it's time to retire. (Well its not that different from before, but the only difference is that this generation sees hacking into accounts, screaming insults, impersonating, break-ups and morals/ethics being thrown out the window over the stupid love triangle that doesn't even have a clear answer in the 1st place.)

I don't think Macross F will be like that. I mean it takes YEARS to accumulate that much hate and immaturity and M.F started like what, a month ago?

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by crisis

There's no harm in screwing your brain over trying to figure out what kind of development the characters will be getting.

So what are we supposed to do, throw out things like "omigosh, VF-25 is making eyes at RVF-25!!!"? (Which I'm sure they secretly are anyway.) :|

But I don't see anyone trying to figure out a characters development here...All I see is post saying how Ranka or Sheryl would be a better choose for Alto and it's driving me crazy. It's like everyone has nothing else to talk about...

If you want "omigosh-ness" go watch a comedy/romance anime series or better yet a soap opera or B rank teen movie...Just leave it out of my Macross...

Originally Posted by crisis

I don't think Macross F will be like that. I mean it takes YEARS to accumulate that much hate and immaturity and M.F started like what, a month ago?

Thats why I'm saying nip it in the bud right now before it gets to that point...

Originally Posted by Westlo

I see what you mean, if we get a finale that's as good as Love Drifts Away* from Macross and the majority of comments is "Oh no Sheryl/Ranka lost this sucks and alto sucks!" or "yay sheryl/ranka won suck it!"... well that would be disappointed to say the least.

*I know Love Drifts Away isn't the real ending but it's the climatic finish to the series imo... wasn't really a fan of all that added on stuff that we got because it was rating so well..

At that point we'll be seeing a lot of AU fics poping up all over place then...

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

The one thing I would like to avoid in this series is yet another meaningless pairing war...I'm sick of reading posts on every anime that has a love triangle about who will win out in the end...

I agree. There's an awful lot of substance to Macross Frontier to discuss without delving into the banal horse race fights that plague so many other shows. Still, people have a right to talk about the things that interest them, so there's no real helping that. I find the best way to reduce that is to simply bring up points that you're interested in, and to pay no attention to what doesn't.

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

I know it's part of the story but thats not the main focus. What about the meachs, dog fights in space, secret behind the aliens attacking humanity, and why Altoh dislikes his family so much...I could go on and on but to get straight to the point...What I'm saying is there is more to a series then just a paring...

To add to what the others have said, the relationships (Not the romance!) currently really do lie at the heart of Macross Frontier. The action and the overarching plot may figure more prominently in the later episodes, but they're not the main themes yet. Then again, talk about who's going to "win" at the end is sort of silly when we're six episodes into a two-cour show; especially since none of the characters are all that concerned with "winning" yet.

Originally Posted by Westlo

Actually this is Macross, it matters just as much as all that stuff if not more, same with Kawamori's Escaflowne which I like better than even the original Macross. Main focus in Macross has always been romance and music as well as the mecha action, those are the 3 staples of Macross you can say.

Pretty much. All of the Macross shows had these focii, albeit their relative importance varies a great deal depending on which work it is. So far, the mecha part is getting the short end of the stick in Macross Frontier - although that's probably going to change starting in episode 7.


On a totally different note, I've got to applaud the cinematography for the last bit of episode 6. There are two shots in particular that I loved: The first is the scene transition from Alto's cockpit to Sheryl's concert entrance - the creators used the earring as the connecting element between the two, and they placed a nifty emphasis on its current location by having it disappear from Sheryl's ear. That shot did a good job of reinforcing the distance of the two characters, and established exactly who Sheryl's song was for. The other shot was of Ranka running to the concert and the pan upwards to reveal the concert hall. Not only was it awfully pretty, but it put the hilly geography of San Francisco 2.0 to good use. Currently, the stitched-together pan resides as my computer wallpaper.

I want to add my appreciation for that little butt-slap scene on board SMS Macross Quarter. Aside from being amusing, the bridge bunnies and captain have only had about a minute or two of total screen-time so far in the first six episodes, but little scenes like that go a long way towards giving them some personality and individuality. It also shows that the relationship between Jeffrey and Monica goes beyond purely a professional one.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by crisis

* The younger girl / loli never wins. Period.

Wherever did you hear that? ^_^


Anyway, what is with this Kawamori tradition? Symbolism or whatever. No matter how much homage they put in the show, I don't think Kawamori will just sit back and obviously tell the fans how his own story will play out just because "things happened like this and that last time". I'd rather look at the story and see which girl will take up the most focus here.

The only thing going against Sheryl is that she is TOO FAR AHEAD in the race (for reasons which I list up there). I can't believe I'm saying this but Alto x Ranka needs to happen NOW until the middle of the series for my mind to be appeased, because then, once the series is nearing its end... HEH HEH.

The first four episodes are filled with Ranka and Alto, maybe Sheryl has episode 5-8 episodes she gets to spend with him. =/ Episode 8's title seemed to relate more to Sheryl, imo.

If Ranka's character didn't make as big of an impression on me in the very start of the series, I would've been helping you wave your SherylxAlto flag right now. I find no reason to hate Sheryl after episode 6, but I guess Ranka is just my homegirl haha

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Pretty much. All of the Macross shows had these focii, albeit their relative importance varies a great deal depending on which work it is. So far, the mecha part is getting the short end of the stick in Macross Frontier - although that's probably going to change starting in episode 7.

I don't see how you can say that when between a third and a half of most of the episodes has had mecha fighting in it. Unless by mecha you mean war, then you'd be correct.

On a totally different note, I've got to applaud the cinematography for the last bit of episode 6. There are two shots in particular that I loved: The first is the scene transition from Alto's cockpit to Sheryl's concert entrance - the creators used the earring as the connecting element between the two, and they placed a nifty emphasis on its current location by having it disappear from Sheryl's ear. That shot did a good job of reinforcing the distance of the two characters, and established exactly who Sheryl's song was for.

I had to watch a second time before I really noticed that and was duely impressed.

I want to add my appreciation for that little butt-slap scene on board SMS Macross Quarter. Aside from being amusing, the bridge bunnies and captain have only had about a minute or two of total screen-time so far in the first six episodes, but little scenes like that go a long way towards giving them some personality and individuality. It also shows that the relationship between Jeffrey and Monica goes beyond purely a professional one.

Much better than lame shopping sprees and workouts.

[cerrian]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I want to add my appreciation for that little butt-slap scene on board SMS Macross Quarter. Aside from being amusing, the bridge bunnies and captain have only had about a minute or two of total screen-time so far in the first six episodes, but little scenes like that go a long way towards giving them some personality and individuality. It also shows that the relationship between Jeffrey and Monica goes beyond purely a professional one.

If only they had their primary animators on that scene . Seriously, it took me about 3-4 replays to figure out he was slapping her ass.

On another note, there was one scene in ep 6 that I felt was a bit out of place. It was when Alto and Micheal were in the crew quarters and Micheal goes on to recite the contract exemption clause. That whole scene felt inappropriate (music and animation) and broke the pacing of the episode. It was semi-redundant b/c Ozma had already given us the key points during the phone call. It probably would have been better to just give Ozma and extra line or 2 to explain the details of the contract and edit out the Micheal scene.

[squaresphere]

^ i'm thinking they wanted a deep explanation for it, foreshadowing at some point someone trying to leave during the height of the conflict.

[4Tran]

I'd like to remind everyone that:

Spoilers about future events must not be posted in this thread.
If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I don't see how you can say that when between a third and a half of most of the episodes has had mecha fighting in it. Unless by mecha you mean war, then you'd be correct.

There's been a fair bit of mecha combat, but the importance of the combat has been relatively minor: there'd be little change to the impact of the story even if some of it had been excised from the show. In contrast, the character interactions have been utterly crucial, and there'd be no show without them. Also, there are a fair number of viewers who've been following along even though they don't really care about the combat.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Much better than lame shopping sprees and workouts.

I can't agree with that: the Zentradi mall sequence was one of the most visually imaginative and fun pieces I've ever seen in anime; and because of it, I'd place episode 5 as one of my favorite episodes in the last decade.

Originally Posted by cerrian

On another note, there was one scene in ep 6 that I felt was a bit out of place. It was when Alto and Micheal were in the crew quarters and Micheal goes on to recite the contract exemption clause. That whole scene felt inappropriate (music and animation) and broke the pacing of the episode. It was semi-redundant b/c Ozma had already given us the key points during the phone call. It probably would have been better to just give Ozma and extra line or 2 to explain the details of the contract and edit out the Micheal scene.

I think the idea there was to explicitly point out that all of the SMS personnel were now integrated into the military, and that they were all subject to its rules and regulations.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by cerrian

If only they had their primary animators on that scene . Seriously, it took me about 3-4 replays to figure out he was slapping her ass.

On another note, there was one scene in ep 6 that I felt was a bit out of place. It was when Alto and Micheal were in the crew quarters and Micheal goes on to recite the contract exemption clause. That whole scene felt inappropriate (music and animation) and broke the pacing of the episode. It was semi-redundant b/c Ozma had already given us the key points during the phone call. It probably would have been better to just give Ozma and extra line or 2 to explain the details of the contract and edit out the Micheal scene.

Yeah, I understood the point of what Michael was saying and how they intended for him to be mocking, but they didn't really ease into it. It still conveys the fact that Michael thinks it sucks for them. Especially since it means that even though they're essentionally a part of the regular military, they still don't recieve the same benefits (family restitution) and dignities (burials) of dying in the line of duty.

It really does make all the sense in the world to use the SMS over any other unit when you consider that.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I can't agree with that: the Zentradi mall sequence was one of the most visually imaginative and fun pieces I've ever seen in anime; and because of it, I'd place episode 5 as one of my favorite episodes in the last decade.

I was totally not refering to that scene at all. "Sheryl in Zentradiland" was a defining scene of her for me.

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by ani_d

If Ranka's character didn't make as big of an impression on me in the very start of the series, I would've been helping you wave your SherylxAlto flag right now. I find no reason to hate Sheryl after episode 6, but I guess Ranka is just my homegirl haha

You mean my Alto x Michel flag?

Would say more but I've fed myself half a month worth of posts over the love triangle topic so I'll just sit back.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

On a totally different note, I've got to applaud the cinematography for the last bit of episode 6. There are two shots in particular that I loved: The first is the scene transition from Alto's cockpit to Sheryl's concert entrance - the creators used the earring as the connecting element between the two, and they placed a nifty emphasis on its current location by having it disappear from Sheryl's ear. That shot did a good job of reinforcing the distance of the two characters, and established exactly who Sheryl's song was for.

Yeah that was a great sequence, pity about Sheryl's eyebrows being way too large.. hopefully they redraw that part for the dvd/blueray release. I got a massive laugh on Macross Worlds forums when someone thought the earring sequence was an animation error...

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The other shot was of Ranka running to the concert and the pan upwards to reveal the concert hall. Not only was it awfully pretty, but it put the hilly geography of San Francisco 2.0 to good use. Currently, the stitched-together pan resides as my computer wallpaper.

Yeah that's a great shot, I thought it showed the distance between Sheryl and Ranka figuratively at this stage in that shot. Here's the stitched-together pan for anyone who doesn't have it yet.

http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?i...3890220qv1.jpg

Originally Posted by ani_d

I'd rather look at the story and see which girl will take up the most focus here.

Going by SDF Macross you can't even take that approach since Minmei got the most focus easily.. from Hikaru and the actual story itself. And there's good reason why people take notice of what Kawamori has done before, aside from getting way too preachy in Arjuna and Macross Zero he hasn't really changed his style that much in 25 years.

[Wesley84]

One question; why Joshua? Don't guys usually name their boats or cars after girls?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

One question; why Joshua? Don't guys usually name their boats or cars after girls?

Hmm, certain 'boats' in history bore titles such as die Schlachtschiff 'BISMARCK' and/or senkan 'MUSASHI', Joshua on the other hand, sounds quite mild in comparison

- Tak

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Tak

Hmm, certain 'boats' in history bore titles such as die Schlachtschiff 'BISMARCK' and/or senkan 'MUSASHI', Joshua on the other hand, sounds quite mild in comparison

- Tak

Ah, you suppose Luca's Jewish? Naming his AWACs after a biblical spy is pretty clever.

[osmium]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I can't agree with that: the Zentradi mall sequence was one of the most visually imaginative and fun pieces I've ever seen in anime; and because of it, I'd place episode 5 as one of my favorite episodes in the last decade.

I interpreted this comment as meaning those random episodes where they randomly have a bunch of girls at the beach, or they go shopping, or whatnot, where there isn't any real character development or plot advancement. Often the change of scenery seems to have more to do with being able to draw the characters in interesting outfits in order to take attention away from the fact that that part of the series could probably be removed without any loss of story.

Also like to just put the opinion on the record, I actually appreciate all parts of macross F... which I almost shudder at saying. The music is actually interesting in some sense (classically trained musician, going on 16 years playing, so usually "pop" stuff is waay too simplistic for my taste), the character development is pretty solid (although I find that I need to see multiple translations of some of the lines in order to feel like I've actually got a solid grasp on what was actually said, due to some fairly large differences between some translations, which could just be errors, or could be translational freedoms), and although my computer is waaay too old, yet should have the power to play them, the HD versions are *killing* my frame rate <grin>, but I still like the battle sequences, especially that little barrel roll on the ground move that Alto is so fond of.

-O

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I can't agree with that: the Zentradi mall sequence was one of the most visually imaginative and fun pieces I've ever seen in anime; and because of it, I'd place episode 5 as one of my favorite episodes in the last decade.

He's bitching about Gundam 00 again which is like his favourite passtime even when it's not the relevant thread. Guy has a massive hard on against the series that won't go away even months after it ended it's first season.

Anyway, I've got my take on Macross Frontier Episode 06 up if anyone is interested. Overall another solid episode, but I think the real action starts next time. The defining scene of the episode was actually the end of it and how they blended Sheryl's concert into what was happening with the SMS and such. The characters are firmly established and now it's time for some intricately animated dogfights again and possibly lots of missiles. I hope.