The death or evolution of the sci-fi and mecha genres

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

One thing I've notice about Space Battleship Yamato 2199 is that it is different from the original. I know of a bunch of people that are avoiding it because it is a remake and they've seen the original already (or its "too old"). The new Yamato is not the same as the old one. The plot is more compact with less 70's ish long establishing shots or narration. With all those things removed, they've added more character depth, more subplots that change the nature of the story, especially from the Gamilas side of things. And they've taken the time to put in things in specific places so that you can't know for sure what will happen this time around.

In addition to that, the ship are much higher detailed than in the 70s and 80s, plus there are more characters filling in useful roles. I am actually amazed at how much story they are managing to tell in these episodes. They are functionally farther along in the story than the 1974 story, and have told much more story than the original could in that some period of time.

I'm interested to see how the new Yamato 2199 will be received on Animesuki when the TV-broadcasts start in April. A traditional sci-fi space opera with modern animation. The OVA-releases are still fairly under the radar.

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Nanoha also have taken a lot from Super Robots shows especially Super Robot War (hint: the writer is a HUGE fanboy of it), which is why some of the people who are in for the magical girls elements have grown tired of the direction the franchise have taken.

This is very true; I enjoyed Nanoha, loved Nanoha A's and tolerated StrikerS (it later grew on me a bit) but the current plots are just dumb.

Plus I think Madoka probably ruined me for any magical-girl shows, ever.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Bri

I'm interested to see how the new Yamato 2199 will be received on Animesuki when the TV-broadcasts start in April. A traditional sci-fi space opera with modern animation. The OVA-releases are still fairly under the radar.

This thread actually reminded me of that show so I went and saw the first two episodes: it's everything I've been missing from the genre. It feels so deliciously old school with those older looking character designs and those lovely space ship designs. I can't believe I didn't pick it up sooner.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Bri

I'm interested to see how the new Yamato 2199 will be received on Animesuki when the TV-broadcasts start in April. A traditional sci-fi space opera with modern animation. The OVA-releases are still fairly under the radar.

What's the difference between the old and new one. Was there a script change (slightly to appeal to newer fans?)

[Ithekro]

The story changes progressively over the 14 so far episodes verse the original versions of those 14 episodes. The characters have more logical (or perhaps believable) reasons for doing things. Not so much time is wasted on repeated introductions or narration. The general story is more or less the same in terms of where they are going and what they intend to do once they ge there, but the reasons for thing to be as they are and even the temperment of some characters is more defined or even completely different.

Add to this a half dozen subplots from both sides of the war. A third Iscandarian sister (there were two previously), and progressively different stories to tell to same tale, and you have what might be considered a superior story to the original. Or at the very least, the best remake anyone has ever made of a successful series.

We've so far had I believe two entirely new stories, and maybe half of the rest of the stories highly different from their original brethren. Only the first 8 episodes are at least similar to the original versions, or have elements of the first 12 episodes of the orignal series. After that you might be able to pick out parts of an episode that are similar to a part of an orignal episode...but the full plot of any paricular episode is no longer the same as it once was. None of the stories are exactly like they once were, with episode 1 being the closest to the original tale as it gets, and even that has changes in motivation for some characters and provides some different insights to things.

Yet it still feels like Yamato.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by bhl88

What's the difference between the old and new one. Was there a script change (slightly to appeal to newer fans?)

Pretty much what Ithekro said. The new series contains the general plot from the original but on the episode level it's quite different. Greater focus on characters and much higher pace. Characters show modern attitudes instead of 1970s ones.

However it's still Yamato, so expect a more mainstream show which goes very light on current anime tropes. The cast are pretty much all adults.

[Ithekro]

The youngest crew members I think are 17 years old with most being between 19 and 29 years old. Only a few are older than that like the captain, the doctor, and much of the engineering staff. This is mostly due to the massive loss of experiance officers and enlisted due to the ongoing war with Gamilas.

On the Gamilas side of thing, we get a lot of characters and more modivations for them to do things. It allows the audiance to feel sympathy for them or identify with them rather than having them be the generic bad guy aliens. For example I actually feel sorry for Schultz and Ganz this time around.

[Bri]

Hadn't noticed before, Yamato 2199 starts April 7th, the same date the real WWII Yamato was sunk. They are taking the rebirth symbolism seriously.

[Ithekro]

The first theatrical release of this series was April 7th last year. Now the TV show will start on April 7th as well.

The 67th and 68th anniversaries of the sinking of the battleship Yamato in 1945. Interestingly, that has not been brought up in the show. Nor is the Yamato 2199 the orignal ship rebuilt anymore (for one she's larger than before to fit the actual scale of the rooms they used in the original series) but instead looks like that to fool the Gamilas while it was under construction. Also because the image of the ship sitting on the dry seas was too iconic to get rid of, so they had to work with it.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by bhl88

And Force is truly Mecha.

I have no idea about what you're referring to.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Bri

I'm interested to see how the new Yamato 2199 will be received on Animesuki when the TV-broadcasts start in April. A traditional sci-fi space opera with modern animation. The OVA-releases are still fairly under the radar.

Its certainly on my radar, I've been hearing good things about it for quite a while. I just haven't gotten around to watching it yet, perhaps in part because of things being unfinished.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I have no idea about what you're referring to.

Strikers being this:




Force being this:

[Archon_Wing]

And...

That shows why Force shouldn't be a valid example of anything.

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Ore wa Gundam of Befriending?

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by hyl

I can't remember any of the mechas by name in macross frontier and i probably only remembered the macross only because it has that in it's title. Unlike code geass in which i can exactly recall the Gurren, Lancelot , Gawain, Shinkiro.
And after looking through a wiki it's not even hard why i didn't remember them because most of them hardly distuinguished themselves from eachother both in looks and name.

You might be able to recall the the Code Geass mechas but I certainly can't.

I only remember that Suzaku piloted the Lancelot. And I think it is just the name more than the mecha that stands out to me. I can somewhat recall Kallen's too but not the name.

I guess I am an ignoramus when it comes to mecha though. I can usually only recall the title mecha (although in Gurren Lagann I can remember Kittan's and Viral's pretty well too).

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Ore wa Gundam of Befriending?

Yeah, probably.

[aohige]

Love, Friendship and BFG.

BFG does the talking.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by hyl

And as far as i have seen, i haven't been extremely dumbfounded by the plot by missing something from the previous series. Aside from protoculture.

The insider joke is the that the original plot is inverted. Humanity in Frontier acts exactly like the alien invaders did in the original series/movie. Humans are now the bad guys in need of reform, and should have known better given the past. I'm not sure that can be deducted from only seeing Frontier.

The antics of the triangle unfortunately got in the way of the storyline, but I can't argue that it was largely responsible for making the series a commercial success.

Originally Posted by hyl

I can't remember any of the mechas by name in macross frontier and i probably only remembered the macross only because it has that in it's title. Unlike code geass in which i can exactly recall the Gurren, Lancelot , Gawain, Shinkiro.
And after looking through a wiki it's not even hard why i didn't remember them because most of them hardly distuinguished themselves from eachother both in looks and name.

Macross is famous for the Valkyrie, while the name of the original fighter mecha it's now used to describe all transformable fighters in the franchise. Like the Zaku it's so iconic it needs no introduction. For individual designs the makers try to stay as close to military naming conventions as possible.

Originally Posted by hyl

How does that hold up against macross frontier again? I don't think the plot would have changed if people were using regular jets than mecha's with jet modes.

It would probably not make much of a difference in Frontier except it wouldn't be Macross. All shows have a pilot, a singer and transformable jet fighters. Originally the rationale behind the transformable planes was that military hardware required a humanoid form to deal with the size difference between Zentradi and humans in close combat.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Bri

The insider joke is the that the original plot is inverted. Humanity in Frontier acts exactly like the alien invaders did in the original series/movie. Humans are now the bad guys in need of reform, and should have known better given the past. I'm not sure that can be deducted from only seeing Frontier.

The historical movie in Episode 10 is based on the events of Macross Zero, and a couple episodes deliberately parallel events in the original SDF Macross but give the similar events different outcomes. Plus there are a lot of shots/sequences that are designed to visually mimic shots from past Macross series.

Overall however Frontier was made to be accessible to newcomers. In my opinion one of the series' strengths is that viewers can get more out of it if they've seen previous Macross series, but don't have to have seen any previous Macross series. (And I say this as someone who had very little familiarity with other Macross series before seeing Frontier.)

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

And...

That shows why Force shouldn't be a valid example of anything.

Besides, I'm not sure that "huge weapons"="mecha". Force has a lot of mecha elements (to the point where it becomes annoying,) but calling Force "mecha" is like, uh, calling Strike Witches "mecha" (Ok, not like people don't already do that, and I know Force has more stuff in common with mecha shows, but...)