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View Poll Results: Should the British Remain or Leave the EU.
Remain 24 55.81%
Leave 19 44.19%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2018-07-10, 09:22   Link #821
Toukairin
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Originally Posted by Newhope View Post
We should, we just have a incompetent leadership, even worse there's no alternative as the labour party are a bunch of far left lunatics.
After all the damage that Thatcherism has done to the UK, I think it's not too much to see Labour swing the pendulum a little further to the left until the balance is eventually found. France had theirs through François Mitterrand.

As for incompetent leadership, that comes down to you the people who elected idiots like May, Bojo, and Farage instead of informing themselves first. Only fools would think that Brexit would work despite the fact that British influence within the EU has vanished to nil while Germans and French took the pole during those years.

In any case, you Brexiters fucked up the future of hundred of thousands, if not millions, intelligent British young people by denying them opportunities within the EU where they could have thrived. Enjoy tasting their wrath in due time.

Last edited by Toukairin; 2018-07-10 at 19:52.
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Old 2018-07-10, 15:05   Link #822
dniv
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Originally Posted by OH&S View Post


What I would give to watch those events unfold live.

I'd almost feel sorry for BoJo if he wasn't such a complete tool.
OMG LMAO That's just too much.
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Old 2018-07-10, 17:01   Link #823
Eisdrache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toukairin View Post
As for incompetent leadership, that comes down to you the people who elected [...] May, Bojo, and Farage instead of informing themselves first.
Who doesn't remember the commonly searched question on google within the UK, "What is Brexit?" or "What is the EU?". Don't even get me started on Farage's infamous £350 million for the NHS bus.
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Old 2018-07-10, 19:53   Link #824
Toukairin
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Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
Who doesn't remember the commonly searched question on google within the UK, "What is Brexit?" or "What is the EU?". Don't even get me started on Farage's infamous £350 million for the NHS bus.
Yep, loads of disgusting stuff on the leave campaign, especially burning cash like Farage did.
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Old 2018-07-11, 12:50   Link #825
RichardFromMarple
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toukairin View Post
After all the damage that Thatcherism has done to the UK, I think it's not too much to see Labour swing the pendulum a little further to the left until the balance is eventually found. France had theirs through François Mitterrand.

As for incompetent leadership, that comes down to you the people who elected idiots like May, Bojo, and Farage instead of informing themselves first. Only fools would think that Brexit would work despite the fact that British influence within the EU has vanished to nil while Germans and French took the pole during those years.

In any case, you Brexiters fucked up the future of hundred of thousands, if not millions, intelligent British young people by denying them opportunities within the EU where they could have thrived. Enjoy tasting their wrath in due time.
It's what happens if you have a weak government supported by a strong right wing press.
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Old 2018-07-11, 14:39   Link #826
Arabesque
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
For all their talk about how Brexit will work, it becomes clear the UK government doesn't really know what it's doing. It might be best for the Government or the next administration to save face now and called it quits since this whole thing is making the UK a laughing stock. (The people who wanted Brexit like Farage and Boris can shove it since they talk big about it but never bother to help the process and called it quits early just like a child demanding mom to help them bake a cake but won't cook it once all the ingredients are there).
That is such a level headed and mature outlook on the situation that it makes me sad that no one in the current government shares or seems able to consider. Between the ideologues who will have nothing but the purest and most destructive of conclusions to this mess and the ones who would rather go along with this farce until the end, there seems to be no one actually willing in power to make the right thing. We are two years into this, money had been wasted and no clear or concise plans have been made by the UK, no proper preparations, no vision for where the country is meant to go or what the future for the UK outside of the EU is supposed to look like.

The entire thing is headed to a disaster and no one in power is willing to do anything to stop the country from going of the cliff, either out of the sheer irrational hatred of the EU or the fear of mentioning that what the referendum was not a good idea and the public should be given a second chance to make a more level judgment.

Even with Boris gone, with the state the Tories are in right now there is no shortage from hardline Brexiters aiming to make sure that the country crashes hard due to the need of one upping the EU. There seems to be no hope at this stage but to accept that the inmates are running the asylum, and the current government is perfectly happy to see the country gone down the drain rather than do the adult thing and stop this madness that had gone on for two years too many.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Rye View Post
Lol. Did that really happen? Then again I bet Boris didn't cared about that at all if there was such a meeting.
It sadly did, and while it was amusing (I had been following it unfold on twitter at the time) it pretty much made the UK fall into being a joke to a level I didn't think it could reach. I mean, the fact Brexit happened and continues to be a thing now is a joke in and of itself, as well as the way the UK had handled the "negotiations", but BoJo took it to another level by making the UK break the commitments it had made (and begged for!) in such a manner.

But even then, nothing was more infatuating than the fact that he completely abandoned his duties by not attending the Cobra meeting in regards to the Salisbury poisoning. It's one thing being treated as a joke by other countries, it is completely different when the citizens he was charged with protecting are assassinated by a foreign power and the fucking foreign secretary decides to just run away.

Boris Johnson is a coward, and he has not a single principled atom in him.

As for Davis' resignation, I stopped trying to recap or following the meetings he had with the EU counterparts because of how little he actually managed to accomplish in them. This year he completely fell of the agreed schedule and had one meeting (lol) that went nowhere because the UK government, 2 years into the talks, still can't make it's intentions clear about what it wants.
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Old 2018-07-11, 22:42   Link #827
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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There is a simple way for the UK to stop Brexit; if the population actually made it clear they want it stopped.

If at any point, the very idea of going forward with Brexit is seen as courting election disaster, then the politicians would be happy to pull the plug.
You don't need a 2nd referendum; you just need the politicians to do polling of their own party voters, and find out what they wanted.

However, it is pretty clear we are still hearing mixed signals, even in this very thread. There are people who still want Brexit, and don't care about the consequences. And if that is the case, then Brexit will keep going. The momentum is still causing everything to move, and nothing would stop it until something else opposes it.
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Old 2018-07-12, 00:07   Link #828
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
There is a simple way for the UK to stop Brexit; if the population actually made it clear they want it stopped.

If at any point, the very idea of going forward with Brexit is seen as courting election disaster, then the politicians would be happy to pull the plug.
You don't need a 2nd referendum; you just need the politicians to do polling of their own party voters, and find out what they wanted.

However, it is pretty clear we are still hearing mixed signals, even in this very thread. There are people who still want Brexit, and don't care about the consequences. And if that is the case, then Brexit will keep going. The momentum is still causing everything to move, and nothing would stop it until something else opposes it.
It's unsure whether the UK can unilaterally stop the process at this point. Legally speaking.

Brexit Britain is wasting its time obsessing over a highly unlikely Article 50 reversal
Can an Article 50 notice of withdrawal from the EU be unilaterally revoked?

The gist is a firm "maybe".

So, let's say tomorrow 100% of the UK wants to stay in the EU. They have to - before the rapidly approaching deadline - either fight a court battle in the ECJ and win, or convince the EU27 to forgive them for all the shit they've pulled.

So no, it's not entirely in the hands of the UK population. Not since the Article 50 was triggered.
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Old 2018-07-12, 15:54   Link #829
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's unsure whether the UK can unilaterally stop the process at this point. Legally speaking.

Brexit Britain is wasting its time obsessing over a highly unlikely Article 50 reversal
Can an Article 50 notice of withdrawal from the EU be unilaterally revoked?

The gist is a firm "maybe".

So, let's say tomorrow 100% of the UK wants to stay in the EU. They have to - before the rapidly approaching deadline - either fight a court battle in the ECJ and win, or convince the EU27 to forgive them for all the shit they've pulled.

So no, it's not entirely in the hands of the UK population. Not since the Article 50 was triggered.
Well obviously the EU would have a say. UK would have to pay a price one way or another.

I am just pointing out that at this point, even people who voted for Brexit is seeing that this is going badly. And that maybe the voters should TRY to press the breaks even if they aren't sure the breaks would work.
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Old 2018-07-12, 16:01   Link #830
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Well obviously the EU would have a say. UK would have to pay a price one way or another.

I am just pointing out that at this point, even people who voted for Brexit is seeing that this is going badly. And that maybe the voters should TRY to press the breaks even if they aren't sure the breaks would work.
Pressing for stuff whose workings they don't know is how they got into this mess in the first place.
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Old 2018-07-12, 20:49   Link #831
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Pressing for stuff whose workings they don't know is how they got into this mess in the first place.
So are you actually pro or anti Brexit anyway? Because that sounds like you are pro Brexit.

I am simply stating if the UK public decided to have second thoughts, that they should make it clear to their representatives. The current state of limbo is not good for anybody. Regardless of what the EU wants, the UK should decide if they want to go Brexit or back off, making it clear what is their actual goal.
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Old 2018-07-12, 21:01   Link #832
Ithekro
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I believe what was typed was that the European Union is not a democracy...its not in the people of the United Kingdom's hands anymore. They could vote all they want....it is not their call now for they are but one of 28 nations. Its up to the other 27 and the courts now.

Basically, it is too late for it to be in the hands of British voters alone, regardless of what they want.
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Old 2018-07-13, 00:50   Link #833
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
So are you actually pro or anti Brexit anyway? Because that sounds like you are pro Brexit.

I am simply stating if the UK public decided to have second thoughts, that they should make it clear to their representatives. The current state of limbo is not good for anybody. Regardless of what the EU wants, the UK should decide if they want to go Brexit or back off, making it clear what is their actual goal.
1. I think Brexit was a terrible idea... for the UK. I'm less sure about the rest of the EU.
2. I'm pointing out that the Brexit vote was a lesson in the perils of democracy. It may be better than tyranny, but it's still not something one should play with. "We can make the Brexit go away" is the kind of optimistic message one might find on the side of a bus.
3. Now that they've jumped off a cliff with a piranha filled river below, maybe they should focus on sticking the landing and hope the fish aren't hungry rather than try to fly back up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I believe what was typed was that the European Union is not a democracy...its not in the people of the United Kingdom's hands anymore. They could vote all they want....it is not their call now for they are but one of 28 nations. Its up to the other 27 and the courts now.

Basically, it is too late for it to be in the hands of British voters alone, regardless of what they want.
Yes, exactly.
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Old 2018-07-13, 03:12   Link #834
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
1. I think Brexit was a terrible idea... for the UK. I'm less sure about the rest of the EU.
2. I'm pointing out that the Brexit vote was a lesson in the perils of democracy. It may be better than tyranny, but it's still not something one should play with. "We can make the Brexit go away" is the kind of optimistic message one might find on the side of a bus.
3. Now that they've jumped off a cliff with a piranha filled river below, maybe they should focus on sticking the landing and hope the fish aren't hungry rather than try to fly back up.
I am not saying that cancelling Brexit is possible or anything. I am saying that UK being indecisive while falling is just not sensible.

You are arguing that it is too late to cancel Brexit. I am arguing that the UK still can't make up its mind what it wants even NOW. These are technically not related matters.

Regardless of what UK can or cannot get, I am saying UK need to at least decide what is its goal at all.
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Old 2018-07-13, 03:43   Link #835
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I am not saying that cancelling Brexit is possible or anything. I am saying that UK being indecisive while falling is just not sensible.

You are arguing that it is too late to cancel Brexit. I am arguing that the UK still can't make up its mind what it wants even NOW. These are technically not related matters.
You argued, and I quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
There is a simple way for the UK to stop Brexit
Quote:
Regardless of what UK can or cannot get, I am saying UK need to at least decide what is its goal at all.
Before deciding anything, they need to take a good hard look at the reality of what they can or cannot get. In fact, they should have done that before the Brexit vote.

But the decisiveness will have to come from their leadership. Because, let's face it, this isn't an issue where any one side will have broad popular support.
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Old 2018-07-13, 08:30   Link #836
DracoS
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Major reason were getting Brexit, it becuse most British people don't understanding, let alone feel involved in the EU politcal system... and for all the talk of trade, the EU a political creatures first and formost.

And when your not involed in the politics, you might as well be living in a tyrany. Blaime who you want for why that is, but keeping the UK in the EU isn't going to work unless most people feels EU politics is firmly part of UK politics.
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Old 2018-07-13, 10:42   Link #837
Eisdrache
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The UK was involved into the politics of the EU as much as any other member before the Brexit. If the masses didn't understand that then it's more on their unwillingness to inform themselves rather than the EU. That EU politics weren't part of UK politics is simply not true.
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Old 2018-07-13, 16:57   Link #838
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
You argued, and I quote:




Before deciding anything, they need to take a good hard look at the reality of what they can or cannot get. In fact, they should have done that before the Brexit vote.

But the decisiveness will have to come from their leadership. Because, let's face it, this isn't an issue where any one side will have broad popular support.
In theory one can get anything, the question is what you need to sacrifice to get it. So that is what I mean when I say the UK can move forward only once the population actually push for it.

True, the EU might not WANT UK back, but you can't say it is impossible, if the UK actually gave enough incentives/sweeteners/sacrifices. The fact that the incentives needed might be more than what UK is willing to give is a separate matter.

That is why i consider it more important for UK to make up its mind, than to simply find out what it can get. Politics is about priorities, not simply doing what is easy.

The EU knows what it wants. UK does not know what it wants. The sooner UK decide what it wants, and pay the price for it, the quicker we can get on with our lives.
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Old 2018-07-13, 19:14   Link #839
DracoS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
The UK was involved into the politics of the EU as much as any other member before the Brexit. If the masses didn't understand that then it's more on their unwillingness to inform themselves rather than the EU. That EU politics weren't part of UK politics is simply not true.
Well I worry for the other members then, most people in the UK can't even name there MEP. and the masses not understanding the EU processes properly is an EU problem, since it effects legitimacy of its laws and policies.
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Old 2018-07-13, 22:32   Link #840
Eisdrache
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Why would anything be less legitimate if it's not understood properly? Especially if the information is publicly available and the concerned parties are simply not willing to invest the effort to learn about it?

The answer is that it isn't. That's just a lazy excuse.
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