(L) Sword Art Online - Light Novel Discussion

[Hell_ping]

We're reinstating the Progressive series and Side Stories for this project.

The reinstatement will probably start once my exams are done, May 7th 2014.

[c933103]

Originally Posted by Sleep_ping

We're reinstating the Progressive series and Side Stories for this project.

The reinstatement will probably start once my exams are done, May 7th 2014.

Any plan on ME11?

[HasuMasu]

Eh? Eh? So finally it's <<Progressive>>'s turn hmm.

Originally Posted by XFire

And again you're assuming that what you think somehow trumps the authors word. It doesn't, so grow up and move on.

A plothole is anything that doesn't make sense in the plot as according to the rules. A handwave is something that is poorly explained but still considered "correct". They aren't the same thing. What you described was a plot hole resulting from a contradiction in the story. Which did not happen in the first place.

And where are you getting the idea that Kayaba was completely passive during this fight. Both of them were trying to kill each other, it's ridiculous to assume that he was just standing there blocking the whole time.

And Kirito moves inside the system that Kayaba created. The fact that he had to equip Dual Blades as a skill means that the system changes in accordance to the style in use. Kayaba built that style into the system, so he knows everything about it.

You don't seem to be understanding this here, so I'll go ahead and lay it out for you.

• Kayaba would have lost the first fight w/o Over-Assist
• He only won the second fight due to knowledge of Dual Blades
• Kirito has no equivalent to that knowledge nor is there any way to create one
• The knowledge of Dual Blades is called an immense advantage within the narration
• Kirito is described as the superior fighter by both fighters afterwords
• Kirito is described as being stronger within the narration
• Kirito is said to be stronger by the author himself

Kirito is the superior fighter. The author wrote the story, so he has final say on who is "stronger" inside his universe. He has written the story supporting that conclusion. All of the characters take the conclusion as fact.

So unless you find something in the novel or webnovel that says Kayaba was better, we're done here.

Sorry bout any typos. I'm sure there've been a lot so far but for some reason there's no spellcheck...no red lines.

Why can't it? The author can only tell us what happens, but the the finer details are up to you. I don't need to grow up I only need to be right which I am and for reasons that have been explained over many posts. Ofcourse evidently you will need more convincing. The only way this can end is either you join my side or willingly drop the argument first because I'm pretty sure I can keep this up indefinitely.

A handwave is a reaction to a plothole. As I said you can either wave it off or retroactively change it. One of only two ways to address a plothole or three depending on whether you count ignoring it as a separate reaction.

I already addressed my...memories regarding what Kayaba actually did.

And yet there's no indication your range of movement is restricted unless you use an actual <<Sword Skill>>? Kirito can't use any real <<Rapier>> skills, but he has no problem picking one up and stabng someone with it...exactly how you're supposed to.

I like bullets too.

• In the first place I not arguing about the first fight.
• No he didn't. Kirito was going to lose even before using <<Eclipse>> or does your copy not have the part where literally all his attacks are blocked, but Kayaba was countering and still had effort to spare. Kirito on the other hand was out of options. All of this before Kirito even used one <<Sword Skill>>.
• What do you mean no equivalent? A much lesser equivalent but certainly not none at all. Kirito has seen Kayaba fight many times on <<Front Line>> unless you think for the about more than a year that he's known <<Heathcliff>> the only time he actually saw hime swing a sword was during their fight. We have no way of actually knowing that so this is up to yr interpretation.
• And when Kirito wasn't using the skills? Was he winning? Not even close.

I know what's been said, but what's been shown tells a different story.

Why don't you just drag Kawahara Reki here and get him to write your argument for you then? I've said this before but arguments can only exist because of perception and interpretation. Sorry but there isn't a judge to give any final word to bail you out. You're going to have to make do with using your own reasoning. No discussion is neded if all we had to do was read and leave it like that. What's written is ritten well can't do anything about it. No reason to think about what we're reading?

If you really want to be done with this then I'm going to be a bit lonely. I don't often get to post at all anywhere.

[Hell_ping]

Originally Posted by c933103

Any plan on ME11?

Ask someone else.

And nope, we're definitely NOT hosting ME10.

[Huulda]

Originally Posted by Sleep_ping

Ask someone else.

And nope, we're definitely NOT hosting ME10.

Where will the progressive and side stories be hosted? Not aware if you have your own website

[HasuMasu]

He means they'll be re-uploaded.

[Hell_ping]

Undeleted, actually.

Most probably, the main project will be renamed as Sword Art Online: Progressive.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Masuzu

~snip~

Your opinion does not trump canon. Deal with it.

Again, unless you have direct textual evidence suggesting Kayaba is a better fighter, this conversation is pointless.

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by Sleep_ping

Undeleted, actually.

Most probably, the main project will be renamed as Sword Art Online: Progressive.

So it's hiding! It's great though that even the sides...even though you said they'd be gone too.

Originally Posted by Wagahai

The only way this can end is either you join my side or willingly drop the argument first because I'm pretty sure I can keep this up indefinitely.

I know what I said, but it was a bit too soon for you to run out of steam smart guy.

[c933103]

ME10 translator doesn't seem to have access to ME11 raw..

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Masuzu

So it's hiding! It's great though that even the sides...even though you said they'd be gone too.

I know what I said, but it was a bit too soon for you to run out of steam smart guy.

Your arguments consist of half-remembered fragments of a novel you've clearly not read in a long time, mistaken interpretations of literary devices, and the assertion that your "interpretation" can somehow overrule direct canon from the author.

Mine consists of direct references to the novel which I have opened right in front of me and actual input from the writer of the series. Both qualify as actual canon, so to refute them you need something of equal legitimacy, which means a contradicting point from the author himself.

Your stance has largely been based around saying everything that contradicts your opinion is a plothole... because it doesn't support your opinion. As circular reasoning does not qualify as a legitimate debating tool, there really isn't much for me to say.

You aren't even arguing anymore, all you're doing is clamping your hands over your ears and yelling "I'm right" over and over. There isn't much point in continuing unless you can pull up actual evidence from the series to support your stance.

As much as I like a good debate, I'm not interested in arguing with someone who doesn't know the rules. I'm not particularly fond of the idea of winning a race against someone going in the wrong direction, so I'll wait up by the finish line till you get back on track. Take all the time you need, I'm not going anywhere.

[Rageth]

Eh... What was that talk earlier about Sword Skills being part of the Seed. Wasn't that something that should have only been in SAO and ALO? When does it say that the Seed carried the Sword Skills? (Or is it from a translation of the web novel/volume 14?)

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Rageth

Eh... What was that talk earlier about Sword Skills being part of the Seed. Wasn't that something that should have only been in SAO and ALO? When does it say that the Seed carried the Sword Skills? (Or is it from a translation of the web novel/volume 14?)

The Seed has the basic form of SAO in it, so they could be added pretty easily I think. Not sure if they're actually an integral part that comes pre-loaded, though.

[Rageth]

Originally Posted by XFire

The Seed has the basic form of SAO in it, so they could be added pretty easily I think. Not sure if they're actually an integral part that comes pre-loaded, though.

It has the basic form of the Cardinal System, and some other program packages. Not exactly SAO itself. (Of course, Cardinal happens to be all the core processes for SAO)

Anyways, a discussion I had earlier today made me wonder if "Incarnate" is a side-effect of the Cardinal System's ability to read a person's "raw brain-wave data" and save it into the surrounding environment, items, and players. "The Day After" used this to explain how digital ghosts may appear in Aincrad. But if the "ghosts" are conscious of their surroundings, that means the "data" is being processed too. So one's "intent" or "will" being read, and then processed into the environment and surrounding units would probably create some strange phenomena that normally wouldn't be expected.

[Ravagerblade]

What's with the progressive thing for the novel? I'm not understanding it I think, is it written by the original writer something about a reboot of the series right? He wanted to change things?

[Rageth]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

What's with the progressive thing for the novel? I'm not understanding it I think, is it written by the original writer something about a reboot of the series right? He wanted to change things?

Progressive is a novel series the author started 2 years ago, (and has been releasing 1 book per year so far), which follows the Front-lines of Aincrad as they go floor by floor up the castle.
It's not exactly a "reboot," however it does happen to retcon some facts from the first book. Hell, even some of the main books retcon parts of the first book. (The first book has basically been retconned to hell by now)

Anyways, so far it's two books in, and it has covered the conquering of the first 3 floors (1st and 2nd in book 1, and 3rd floor in book 2.)

[Ravagerblade]

So its a play-by-play of each happens of each floor? or something.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

So its a play-by-play of each happens of each floor? or something.

Pretty much. You know the anime episode that showed the floor one boss? That was from Progressive.

[FlareKnight]

Have to say the Progressive novel actually sounds pretty good to me.

Honestly thought it would have been nice to focus more of the story in SAO itself and a play by play of the progression sounds interesting.

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by Rageth

Anyways, a discussion I had earlier today made me wonder if "Incarnate" is a side-effect of the Cardinal System's ability to read a person's "raw brain-wave data" and save it into the surrounding environment, items, and players. "The Day After" used this to explain how digital ghosts may appear in Aincrad. But if the "ghosts" are conscious of their surroundings, that means the "data" is being processed too. So one's "intent" or "will" being read, and then processed into the environment and surrounding units would probably create some strange phenomena that normally wouldn't be expected.

Incarnation isn't about Cardinal, it's more to do with the SAOverse metaphysics.

Spoiler for Incarnation, incl WEB Alicization spoilers:

The human soul in-setting is capable of warping reality, as long as you have a strong enough emotion. The WEB 6 parts showed souls leaving the body can be made visible to the naked eye if the death is subjectively traumatic enough for the victim, and the climax of WEB 8 in Ocean Turtle showed Kayaba moving a broken down robot using Incarnation when it was no longer physically possible for its parts to carry out its job.
A strong willpower works as well, but it's vastly less effective than the emotion route.

The digital ghosts are echoes the person through Incarnation, traces of emotions taking on form; the Sachi example has her feelings for Kirito, but it doesn't have any other knowledge not related to that.