2013-04-21, 01:27 | Link #6501 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
Lacus and co: mostly correct. I would say though that he was NOT banking on Shinn to solely take out Kira, that would have been too much of a gamble Athrun is a failure of a supporting character imo, hes a great pilot, but thats about it, he does not have any strong convictions whatsoever On the last point, who would ever take cockpit stabs into account XD, all Durandal wanted was them dead, and Im sure he would have taken into account the probability of failure, just in case Quote:
|
|||
2013-04-21, 01:48 | Link #6502 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
|
Quote:
while Djibril was nothing but puppet (People hate mastermind more than puppet ) |
|
2013-04-21, 09:46 | Link #6504 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Quote:
Of course one could argue that any hope of Athrun being effective for Zaft ended when Orb and Kira became their enemies. He obviously didn't have the desire to fight them and even them inadvertantly killing Heine couldn't make him totally forsake them. Even when Kira was apparantly dead Athrun still was defending him, which is when Durandal finally decided he couldn't control him. Really in the end Athrun needent had bothered. He'd have been better off not going to Plant at all, and simply staying in Orb and leaving with AA when the ASH team attacked them. Of course then there would be zero connection between team Minerva and AA. They'd just be faceless opponent's to each other. If anything Athrun was an interesting parallel to Shinn. While Athrun tried to convince himself to rejoin Zaft because Plant was his homeland and he should do his best because it was in his blood, it was pretty clear his true loyalties lied with Orb. Meanwhile Shinn forsook his homeland Orb completely and entirely, and jumped ship to serving Zaft without ever looking back. Although how much of his loyalty was simply to Durandal himself rather than Plant is unclear. |
|
2013-04-21, 10:17 | Link #6505 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
|
Quote:
One could argue that the reason why those two doesn't have clear view on what they really want is because they are strongly shackled by their outside environments (Athrun is shackled and torn between his loyalty to his country and friends, while Shinn is shackled by a wish for no war that get corrupted by strong hatred for his original country). On the comparison, Kira is self-righteous on his own way. Born as Coordinator and live in neutral country, fight his own race in order to protect his friends (despite being told here and there from some people), ultimately discovering what he really want. I know Kira's situation is different from them, but they should probably learn one or two from this guy sometimes . One have to wonder what would happen if Durandal just ignore he and Lacus. |
|
2013-04-21, 10:30 | Link #6506 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the edge of insanity
Age: 44
|
Durandal couldn't ignore Kira/Lacus even if he wanted to. They where too much of a wild card, especially after he trotted out Meer as Lacus. That was a proverbial slap in the face to the real Lacus. He knew once Meer was out and about Lacus wouldn't remain in hiding. So he made a preemptive strike in the hopes of removing Lacus before she became a threat to his plans.
The fact Kira was there to prevent his attempt from being successful was an unforeseen outcome. And became even more so once the Archangel launched and "kidnapped" Cagailli. But that's where Athrun was supposed to come in. Durandal intended to have him train Shinn and perhaps to a lesser extent Rey and Luna to be able to take Kira down. Think about the trouble Kira would have had against the Destiny, Legend, and Impulse 3 on 1 had Athrun actually succeded in Durandal's plan for him. |
2013-04-21, 10:43 | Link #6507 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Actually if Durandal had ignored them at first, Kira Lacus and Andy would have migrated to Plant, to escape the anti coordinator Orb aligned EA leaving their powerful Freedom and battleship back on Earth. That was their plan, before the hit squad showed up.
From that point, fake Lacus or not, they wouldn't have really been in a position to do much at first. Kira wouldn't have been able to make his interventions, which means Athrun wouldn't have been conflicted, and Minerva would have wasted the Orb fleet. And Durandal would pretty much have run unopposed on Earth. Cagalli would have been stuck in Orb as the Seiran's puppet, and Orb would not have had the strength to resist Zaft invading. And assuming Durandal didn't have Lacus located in Plant and killed, where Kira would have been helpless to save her. And even if they did somehow manage to link up with Terminal and get SF they would be in a severely weakened state with no Athrun, Mwu, AA or Orb forces to help them. This is assuming Durandal didn't have them brought in and sweet talk them into siding with him instead of sending a hit squad, as they mentioned they actually would have been supporting what he was saying at first, except that they were fairly certain he tried to have them killed which meant he probably had something up his sleeve he thought they would oppose him on. And if that was case Durandal would have outright won, as he'd have just about everyone powerful on his side. And by the time it was time for the Destiny Plan, it would be too late for them to resist. Really, Durandal kind of shot himself in foot on that one. |
2013-04-21, 10:48 | Link #6508 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
|
Quote:
To be honest, I found that Durandal's way of executing his plan is a bit radical as the show keep moving forward. Probably things could go smoother had he choose a diplomatic route. Quote:
I see what they planned for this, but I'd consider this a failure on writing part. I don't really buy it that a man who can orchestra the grand scheme of thing like this can overlook a possibility that a suit that make one of the wild card dangerous in the first place is being kept there. |
||
2013-04-21, 11:07 | Link #6509 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the edge of insanity
Age: 44
|
Well I never said Duramdal was perfect or knew everything. Just that he was dang close. And the few bits of info he didn't know about or things he otherwise over/underestimated about came back to bite him in the arse. With Athrun being a prime example of that. He figured he could play Athrun like a fiddle, and for awhile he did. It's just that once he spoke to Kira/Lacus about things Athrun became resistant to his control.
And Lacus/Kira/Andrew where only "thinking" about going to the plants. They hadn't made a final decision about it just leaning towards it. And Andrew at least strikes me as the type to do do diligence about going there. After all anything that sounds to good to be true usually is to good to be true. And he's just cynical enough to think along those lines. |
2013-04-21, 11:19 | Link #6510 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
|
Quote:
The data was taken by a spy named Leon Ludwic who diguised himself as one of the natural journalists which was granted the permission to cover the performance of the new Gundams (one of them is Jess Rable, journalist-pilot of the Astray Outframe). After Leon’s stolen data was retrieved by a pilot from Intelligence Organization (IO), his spacecraft was destroyed by the same pilot using N Dagger N. The event happen some time before the raid in Armory One in Destiny's first episode. In case you want to know how N Dagger N looks: In the picture below, you will see Matis, the leader of IO, only receiving the data of Chaos, Abyss, and Gaia. Somehow, Leon the spy didn’t get the data on Impulse. After receiving the data, Matis most likely gave it directly to Djibril and Phantom Pain. After all that, there’s still no solid evidence about Durandal’s direct involvement in the data leak. But, the invitation and permission granted to those journalists were from Durandal himself so...
__________________
|
|
2013-04-21, 11:39 | Link #6511 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Was it? I thought the reactor is in the upper back, above the main thrusters?
Quote:
First of all, if the journalists were there to cover the new Gundams, why did Cagalli seemed surprised that they were there? They shouldn't be a secret. (EDIT: I suppose the journalists could still be under some form of an NDA until the official launch, which I believe they said would've been the day after Cagalli arrived at Armory One.) Secondly, shouldn't the Impulse be front and center in the display? Why was its data not included? Oh, and thanks for the images. I've seen the N Dagger N, but I don't recall this particular story. Is it from Destiny Astray or some of the latter Astrays? |
|
2013-04-21, 11:59 | Link #6512 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2013-04-21, 12:03 | Link #6513 | ||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
|
Quote:
In fact, Jess Rabble was allowed to cover the Gundams only because he’s regarded as Junius 7 Treaty Supervisor member from Junk Guild. So, Leon should also be considered the same Supervisor but from other group. Oh, and even though Jess is allowed to take pictures of the Gundams, he isn’t allowed to take pictures of the hangar and all the mass-produced MSs in Armory One. Quote:
It's from Destiny Astray.
__________________
|
||
2013-04-21, 12:11 | Link #6514 | |||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2013-04-21, 12:23 | Link #6515 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
|
In the manga, they consider those hangar and MSs in Armory One as a strict military installation, hence the photography restriction. Only the Gundams are permitted for a coverage (for the distinguished journalists only).
__________________
|
2013-04-21, 13:15 | Link #6516 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
And I'm not saying they should purposely take the mobile suits out from some hangar for the journalists. Just have the journalists take pictures of whatever mobile suits are out in the open while they're there. I would think that taking pictures of the surroundings of where the main presentation is being held would be standard procedure for journalists. It helps describe the context of the situation. Anyway, that's just my thought on this. |
|
2013-04-21, 13:18 | Link #6517 | |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2013-04-21, 13:21 | Link #6518 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the edge of insanity
Age: 44
|
But why?
From a military perspective, the gundams are the equal to what the first atomic bomb was at the end of WWII. Why would they make such a big deal of showing off they're fancy schmancy new nukes while they hide the latest version of the P-51 Mustang? I mean the US sure as heck wouldn't want the first nukes falling into the hands of Japan or Germany. If given the choice they'd rather have the new mustang stolen then the first nukes. It doesn't make sense the way they did it unless they wanted the three gundams to be stolen. Or at the very least for an attempt to steal them made. I mean it's one thing to have a photo op for the new gundams after they've been commishioned and such. At that point they have pilots and are secured aboard the Minerva. But having the photo op before just increases the likelihood of what happened happening. |
2013-04-21, 13:26 | Link #6519 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
|
Probably because they are first and foremost military armor units, and not weapons of mass destruction like nuclear missiles, G.E.N.E.S.I.S., and Requiem. We do have military vehicle exhibitions in real life; this is no different.
__________________
|
2013-04-21, 13:32 | Link #6520 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the edge of insanity
Age: 44
|
I was going for scale honestly....
I suppose a better analogy would be to compare the gundams to the stealth bomber/fighter during the cold war. The US didn't really show them off until the cold war was essentially over. |
Tags |
mecha, seed it and weep |
|
|