AnimeSuki Forums

zero1328 · 2009-05-02, 22:55

I can't remember where it was said, (maybe last year's panel...) but a good part of revenue actually comes from merchandise stemming from the show, such as soundtracks, models and all other sorts of collectibles. And that's limited to only Japan, since there's a lot of collector mentality there, and there isn't enough demand in other places. So comparing DVD sales alone won't be a proper sample.

npcomplete · 2009-05-03, 11:26

Actually, it's not just limited to Japan. Merchandise sales outstrips DVD sales in N. America alone by far. $2.512 billion vs $316 million

I would wager the difference is even larger around the world where there is less of a DVD market. In fact I'd say that fansubs has had some tangible benefits in this regard. I don't know of any research that has broken merchandise sales down by anime and countries sold but I bet you'll see many goods sold to countries where the anime is not.

Dansickle · 2009-05-03, 11:45

I'm going to have to agree with zero1328. That "collector" mentality appears much less socially acceptable in the US and forms more of a niche population (edit: This is just my perception, might not be right). I'm sure that merchandise sales are high, but as you said np, the ratio is likely much higher in other countries.

It's not that I don't think the merchandise would sell, it just wouldn't sell enough to support a market beyond the imports/niche stores that are around now.

getfresh · 2009-05-04, 06:35

zero and npcomplete, you are both wrong and right at the same time. The issue with the merchandise created from a show is that the Japanese companies sell the rights for merchandise separately from the rights to the show itself. In almost all cases they sell the rights for each to different companies overseas. This splits up the possible profit making ability of a series considerably. You must also remember that in Japan a 2 episode DVD sells for around $50 USD, and the merchandise surrounding the series is also much higher in price generally. Say a gundam model here is $20 USD, the same model in Japan would be 3500 YEN[roughly $35 USD(I have not checked the exchange rate recently though)]. The Japanese market is vastly different from the US market and the markets world wide. On top of the lowered revenue created by sales, the licensors must pay the licensing fee's, production costs for translation, and the cost for dubbing if there is any before they can even begin to market the item. When you take their overhead into consideration and then take away the cash-cow side which is merchandise, you end up stifling the industry. But in the end the Japanese don't give a rats ass about that since they enjoy biting off their noses in spite of their face.

Access · 2009-05-06, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dansickle

I'm going to have to agree with zero1328. That "collector" mentality appears much less socially acceptable in the US and forms more of a niche population (edit: This is just my perception, might not be right). I'm sure that merchandise sales are high, but as you said np, the ratio is likely much higher in other countries.

Perhaps for adults, but by far most toys are bought for or by kids, and a lot of kids stuff has some kind of movie, franchise, or such tie-in. Batman, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. Pretty much any popular movie also gets its own (typically awful) video game put out around the same time.

zero1328 · 2009-05-06, 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Access

Perhaps for adults, but by far most toys are bought for or by kids, and a lot of kids stuff has some kind of movie, franchise, or such tie-in. Batman, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. Pretty much any popular movie also gets its own (typically awful) video game put out around the same time.

That's pretty much half the point. It's a whole different world when it comes to what's socially acceptable in Japan. A lot of anime, manga, and related merchandise also caters for young adults, and older men and women. Stuff for children is just a fraction. And we all know that grown-ups have a lot more spending money. There's probably a ton of factors that we can speculate on, though.

getfresh · 2009-07-02, 00:16

Update:

Funimation will not be attending (they apparently have put a hold on all panels or something, AX one got canceled from what I was told moments ago by someone there)

Crunchy Roll rep expressed that he isn't sure or confident that CR will even attend Otakon so most like scratch them.

After some of the recent run-ins between fansubbers and licensers, many licensers are more stand-offish than normal so things are not looking up. We will hold the panel eitherway though we would prefer a strong turn out from the industry since their input/feedback is the priority of the panel, but if they are unwilling to participate I'm not going to get all bent out of shape.

If anyone has suggestions or ideas to help us gather more industry reps or professionals to participate in the panel, please share them. I'm getting very near exhausting my last resources.

Sindalf · 2009-07-02, 02:54

Any idea what the panel is called or what time its at? There was an early schedule released and I could not find your panel on it. Fansubbing friends looking for a place to meet up at.

Hope everything goes well. Im guessing you can just send out alot of emails asking for them to show up. At this point that might not be easy. Best I think you could do is offer a room for them since that would be hard enough to get at this point.

IRRC, There should be voice actors attending the con. You could ask them to share atleast some insight of what they know if they have time. If they can help at all.

getfresh · 2009-07-02, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindalf

Any idea what the panel is called or what time its at? There was an early schedule released and I could not find your panel on it. Fansubbing friends looking for a place to meet up at.

Hope everything goes well. Im guessing you can just send out alot of emails asking for them to show up. At this point that might not be easy. Best I think you could do is offer a room for them since that would be hard enough to get at this point.

IRRC, There should be voice actors attending the con. You could ask them to share atleast some insight of what they know if they have time. If they can help at all.

Yeah I was going to contact them as a last resort. We are more looking for those with technical knowledge in the authoring/subbing process from the industry. They didn't announce it last year until friday or something and the panel was on saturday called "Fansub / Industry Panel" or something. I think they have open blocks of time in some panel rooms on saturday and sunday, the reason they do this is in case the panel falls through on our end I guess or something.

If you have a link to this early schedule I would like to look at it to see just who is confirmed.

Sindalf · 2009-07-02, 20:34

Quote:

If you have a link to this early schedule I would like to look at it to see just who is confirmed.

Was here

http://www.otakon.com/events_schedule.asp

But it was later removed that same day. I saw nothing on it that said fansub panel.

getfresh · 2009-07-03, 09:26

it was prob taken down due to errors anyway, so not worth going by yet. I know the panel was reg'd with otakon. Tofu did it, and he's who has been regging the otakon fansub panels for years now so if he somehow screwed up then means less work for me and I get to watch him get beaten by the ppl who were getting their con badges from the panel lol.

getfresh · 2009-07-05, 05:33

I see what you were talking about now. But if it's Otakon that dropped this panel then they basicly make themselves hypocrites since the panel reg page states

"Fan Panels make up a large part of Otakon's programming. Your panel ideas and your knowledge, talent, time and effort both before and during the Con helps us fulfill our motto..."For Fans... by fans". So, thank you prior panelists and perhaps we'll see you again this year. Prospective Panelists....be sure to read on for more details about becoming a Panelist at Otakon 2009. "

They want fan panels and use a slogan created by fansubbers (aka "their motto" lol >.>), yet a fansub panel is no longer wanted. I guess if this is true than Otakon is no longer a "fan based con" and has finally become just another whore for the industry"

Either that or Tofu made the most epic fail in the history of failing and will have many dicks drawn on his face while he sleeps with a sharpie during over the con weekend.

Dansickle · 2009-07-05, 08:36

Hope he doesn't remember to take his shoes off.

getfresh · 2009-07-05, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dansickle

Hope he doesn't remember to take his shoes off.

he's in for a world of misfortune if it was his fuck up. He's rooming with every single other panelist expect for interactii, lol.

Starks · 2009-07-07, 00:58

*sigh*

Time to email Lance Haskell and see if the industry knows what's up.

(Also, I think interactii has his own room.)

Quarkboy · 2009-07-07, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by getfresh

he's in for a world of misfortune if it was his fuck up. He's rooming with every single other panelist expect for interactii, lol.

Well, if it's not regged, then you should just hijack a seminar room and hold a:

"pirate panel"

it'd only be appropriate, no?

TheFluff · 2009-07-07, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

Well, if it's not regged, then you should just hijack a seminar room and hold a:

"pirate panel"

it'd only be appropriate, no?

yes, yes it would

also I dunno about anybody else but I am having a good lawl here

the.Merines · 2009-07-07, 19:01

Or get a hold of Funi's notes and give their panel before them, finish way before they start and convey the information in a way that is more pleasing to the modern anime fan. That being, holding up signs made from all the crayons in the box and glitter while someone narrates in Japanese.

In all seriousness, though, the lack of industry representation and possible lack of a legit panel is kind of... uh, intriguing.

DryFire · 2009-07-07, 21:34

Will hilarity ensue?

Something has to go down in that room, panel or not.

Starks · 2009-07-07, 22:27

Panel or no panel, it'll still be a fansubber circle-jerk and many lulz will be had.

2009-05-03, 11:45	Link #63
Dansickle Needs more T-Pain Author Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Charlottesville, Va	I'm going to have to agree with zero1328. That "collector" mentality appears much less socially acceptable in the US and forms more of a niche population (edit: This is just my perception, might not be right). I'm sure that merchandise sales are high, but as you said np, the ratio is likely much higher in other countries. It's not that I don't think the merchandise would sell, it just wouldn't sell enough to support a market beyond the imports/niche stores that are around now. __________________ `ZK`_Dan "The Mouth of Reason" Now Playing: Goal Line Blitz, Starcraft (entering iCCup season 9) (Largely) Retired: DotA, Madden '09, Super Smash Brothers Melee, Melty Blood, CS1.6, CS:S, Diablo 2, Warcraft III, Guild Wars, DAoC, Warhammer Online, Left4Dead, TF2, Halo 1

2009-07-05, 08:36	Link #73
Dansickle Needs more T-Pain Author Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Charlottesville, Va	Hope he doesn't remember to take his shoes off. __________________ `ZK`_Dan "The Mouth of Reason" Now Playing: Goal Line Blitz, Starcraft (entering iCCup season 9) (Largely) Retired: DotA, Madden '09, Super Smash Brothers Melee, Melty Blood, CS1.6, CS:S, Diablo 2, Warcraft III, Guild Wars, DAoC, Warhammer Online, Left4Dead, TF2, Halo 1

2009-07-07, 00:58	Link #75
Starks I see what you did there! Scanlator Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 36	sigh Time to email Lance Haskell and see if the industry knows what's up. (Also, I think interactii has his own room.) __________________ My list of garbage anime

2009-07-07, 19:01	Link #78
the.Merines Seeker of Power Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: ΔHidden Forbidden Holy Ground Age: 39	Or get a hold of Funi's notes and give their panel before them, finish way before they start and convey the information in a way that is more pleasing to the modern anime fan. That being, holding up signs made from all the crayons in the box and glitter while someone narrates in Japanese. In all seriousness, though, the lack of industry representation and possible lack of a legit panel is kind of... uh, intriguing. __________________ I am bound to pay the debt I owe.

2009-07-07, 22:27	Link #80
Starks I see what you did there! Scanlator Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 36	Panel or no panel, it'll still be a fansubber circle-jerk and many lulz will be had. __________________ My list of garbage anime

2009-05-02, 22:55	Link #61
zero1328 (1+3)*2=8 Join Date: May 2008 Location: For you to know and me to find out. Age: 33	I can't remember where it was said, (maybe last year's panel...) but a good part of revenue actually comes from merchandise stemming from the show, such as soundtracks, models and all other sorts of collectibles. And that's limited to only Japan, since there's a lot of collector mentality there, and there isn't enough demand in other places. So comparing DVD sales alone won't be a proper sample.

2009-05-03, 11:26	Link #62
npcomplete Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	Actually, it's not just limited to Japan. Merchandise sales outstrips DVD sales in N. America alone by far. $2.512 billion vs $316 million I would wager the difference is even larger around the world where there is less of a DVD market. In fact I'd say that fansubs has had some tangible benefits in this regard. I don't know of any research that has broken merchandise sales down by anime and countries sold but I bet you'll see many goods sold to countries where the anime is not.

2009-05-04, 06:35	Link #64
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	zero and npcomplete, you are both wrong and right at the same time. The issue with the merchandise created from a show is that the Japanese companies sell the rights for merchandise separately from the rights to the show itself. In almost all cases they sell the rights for each to different companies overseas. This splits up the possible profit making ability of a series considerably. You must also remember that in Japan a 2 episode DVD sells for around $50 USD, and the merchandise surrounding the series is also much higher in price generally. Say a gundam model here is $20 USD, the same model in Japan would be 3500 YEN[roughly $35 USD(I have not checked the exchange rate recently though)]. The Japanese market is vastly different from the US market and the markets world wide. On top of the lowered revenue created by sales, the licensors must pay the licensing fee's, production costs for translation, and the cost for dubbing if there is any before they can even begin to market the item. When you take their overhead into consideration and then take away the cash-cow side which is merchandise, you end up stifling the industry. But in the end the Japanese don't give a rats ass about that since they enjoy biting off their noses in spite of their face.

2009-07-02, 00:16	Link #67
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	Update: Funimation will not be attending (they apparently have put a hold on all panels or something, AX one got canceled from what I was told moments ago by someone there) Crunchy Roll rep expressed that he isn't sure or confident that CR will even attend Otakon so most like scratch them. After some of the recent run-ins between fansubbers and licensers, many licensers are more stand-offish than normal so things are not looking up. We will hold the panel eitherway though we would prefer a strong turn out from the industry since their input/feedback is the priority of the panel, but if they are unwilling to participate I'm not going to get all bent out of shape. If anyone has suggestions or ideas to help us gather more industry reps or professionals to participate in the panel, please share them. I'm getting very near exhausting my last resources.

2009-07-02, 02:54	Link #68
Sindalf Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	Any idea what the panel is called or what time its at? There was an early schedule released and I could not find your panel on it. Fansubbing friends looking for a place to meet up at. Hope everything goes well. Im guessing you can just send out alot of emails asking for them to show up. At this point that might not be easy. Best I think you could do is offer a room for them since that would be hard enough to get at this point. IRRC, There should be voice actors attending the con. You could ask them to share atleast some insight of what they know if they have time. If they can help at all.

2009-07-03, 09:26	Link #71
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	it was prob taken down due to errors anyway, so not worth going by yet. I know the panel was reg'd with otakon. Tofu did it, and he's who has been regging the otakon fansub panels for years now so if he somehow screwed up then means less work for me and I get to watch him get beaten by the ppl who were getting their con badges from the panel lol.

2009-07-05, 05:33	Link #72
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	I see what you were talking about now. But if it's Otakon that dropped this panel then they basicly make themselves hypocrites since the panel reg page states "Fan Panels make up a large part of Otakon's programming. Your panel ideas and your knowledge, talent, time and effort both before and during the Con helps us fulfill our motto..."For Fans... by fans". So, thank you prior panelists and perhaps we'll see you again this year. Prospective Panelists....be sure to read on for more details about becoming a Panelist at Otakon 2009. " They want fan panels and use a slogan created by fansubbers (aka "their motto" lol >.>), yet a fansub panel is no longer wanted. I guess if this is true than Otakon is no longer a "fan based con" and has finally become just another whore for the industry" Either that or Tofu made the most epic fail in the history of failing and will have many dicks drawn on his face while he sleeps with a sharpie during over the con weekend.

2009-07-07, 21:34	Link #79
DryFire Panda Herder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: A bombed out building in Beruit.	Will hilarity ensue? Something has to go down in that room, panel or not.