2013-01-23, 17:43 | Link #5622 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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That's only because the first war ended the way it did. Things could have ended differently. The fact of the matter is that Orb was temporarily annexed by the Atlantic Federation. Do you really think that the Orb government wants to risk that again over keeping at least some pretense of sovereignty as an independent nation?
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2013-01-23, 18:33 | Link #5623 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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But it was ultimately only temporary and that's just as much a fact. In the end Orb soldiers fought in the final battle and played a part in securing their nation again. And that's not enough to suddenly make the people doubt sovereignty, rights and the ideals they lost lives for. If anything it should make them more stubborn.
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2013-01-23, 18:57 | Link #5625 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 33
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Orb had three choices, join the Earth Alliance and be destroyed by ZAFT, join ZAFT and be destroyed by the Earth Alliance, or stay neutral and get destroyed by the Earth Alliance since they would think that if Orb did not join them against the enemies of humanity then they are allied with the enemies (PLANT). They were ruined from the get go or even before SEED since by producing EA's mobile suits they made enemies.
No wonder 00, Code Geass and all of Sunrise's series started taking breaks after every 25 episodes. This is even more obvious when the fourth opening barely had new footage. |
2013-01-24, 05:17 | Link #5626 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Perhaps I was using the wrong words when I said it was nonsensical. It does make sense on it's own but the problem is that there's a whole other host of factors that aren't being taken into account, such as public perception and what the general perception of the sacrifices they made was. It just doesn't make sense to me that a country could so easily reverse it's position after making so many sacrifices for it. Making a country suffer for it's ideals rarely ever has the effect of making the country drop said ideals. Imo, it's the opposite that usually happens. People hold those ideals even harder and focus blame to the outside threat. The whole thing just feels too forced. I can see the reasoning behind it but not to point where there'd be virtually no challenge and dissent.
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2013-01-24, 05:47 | Link #5627 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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2013-01-24, 06:28 | Link #5628 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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If it was really highly regarded as democracy is in the USA, Athha wouldn't have surrendered Orb in the first place. He would've destroyed the mass driver but kept fighting. |
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2013-01-24, 06:56 | Link #5629 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Well I thought the idea of sending the rest of the soldiers into space was so that they could live to keep on fighting another day. It was enough for the politicians to commit mass suicide in any case.
Anyway... Episode 19 Well that was a little bizarre... But I suppose if that's the most effect the fake Lacus Clyne will have then that's fine. Just so long as she isn't calming the mass like she did last time. That was a little ridiculous. The Chairman's speech about the military-industrial complex was nice though he really is starting to look perfect now so I hope that he really did try to assassinate the real Lacus Clyne and I hope the show does reveal more bad sides to him.
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2013-01-24, 07:25 | Link #5630 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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Had Cagalli been older and more experienced than she wouldn't have been so easy to manipulate or wouldn't have questioned herself so much. That and the people and politicians would have more faith in her rule and would have supported her more over Yuna's party. Another thing to remember is that all the stress of ruling was piling up and Cagalli who just wanted it all to end or for the load to lighten up. Yuna promised that he would take care of everything after their marriage which is very tempting to anyone that is desperately looking for a way out or anyone to support them when they're all alone. Cagalli was never meant to rule ORB at such a young age, her Father hadn't planned on dying so soon, hence why he seemed content letting Cagalli rebel a bit before breaking her back into reality and getting her ready for her roll. Only that time never game due to what happened in SEED. Yes, Destiny suffers a lot from Flashbacks. You have to remember it was rushed out the door in a very short time frame to capitalize on SEED fame. Hence why the early episodes are actually quite good but than it takes a dip as time draws on. Hopefully the SEED Destiny HD Remaster will help take off some of that excessive flashback use. They also have material from the SEED Destiny movies/specials that they could pull as well. Helps those are mostly about Athrun so they could be fit nearly anywhere. |
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2013-01-24, 07:52 | Link #5632 | ||||
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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Cagalli gave it her everything, she was willing to give up her own life to make sure ORB wasnt burned down to the ground again, that hardly seems to be sign of someone being selfish like you try to make it look like. Quote:
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See, that's never confirmed, but imo, heavily implied, seeing how he has no control over the real Lacus, and well, uh. Kinda made his own. |
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2013-01-24, 08:00 | Link #5633 | ||||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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^ Spoilers dude...
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2013-01-24, 08:58 | Link #5635 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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Still just a girl who was thrust into a life and position she has no experience in and is expected to restore ORB from the damages and loss it suffered in the last war. That and not everyone really forgave her Father for allowing ORB to be invaded and ORB's values and "pride" was being seen as outdated as they had nothing to show for it but destruction and loss of life.
She did have dillusions, she believed that Yuna would have put ORB first and that she had to accept the wedding, even with her Father dead, because it would be for the good of ORB. Had she seen Yuna for what he truly was and knew of what he was really trying to do than she wouldn't have agreed to the wedding. Cagalli considered Yuna a creep but she didn't know the full extent of what Yuna was willing to do to obtain power and that he served only his interest and that him being her husband would be very bad for ORB. She's in position because her Father ruled ORB. She was put there as a figure head to placate the people that did still respect her Father even if many, like Shinn, hate him for allowing ORB to suffer greatly for an outdated code and pride. You can wait til a few years later to watch it. All I'm just saying is that the Flashback usage only gets worse for Destiny TV as time goes on as well as the horrible ending. Which I'm sure wont be changed in the HD Remaster anyway so what you will see is what we're stuck with outside Game canon that deviates from Official canon. |
2013-01-24, 09:10 | Link #5636 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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He did destroyed the mass driver after sending the remaining force that ORB has to their escape. Also, I don’t think he’s surrendered. He was fighting in his own way by destroying precious facilities after he knew that he’ll lose, giving Azrail nothing significant to gain. His hope for ORB lies with the escaped Archangel & Kusanagi anyway.
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2013-01-24, 12:59 | Link #5637 | |||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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And even if people would become bitter about those ideals, I find it hard to see how they still wouldn't have a grudge against the Earth Feds who pushed them in the first place. And no experience? I thought she had two years at least. Quote:
And there's no reason for her to agree to the wedding anyway. It serves her no good and would just make her unhappy possibly permanently for what is merely extremely temporary relief for the people. Quote:
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2013-01-24, 13:25 | Link #5638 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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Two years is nothing, especially since she took over after ORB was leveled. Most of her time would be spent on reconstruction and rebuilding the broken lives of her people than actually getting the education she will need to lead. Furthermore Two years means nothing compared to those like Yuna who were bred for Politics thus not only do they have experience but they have education over Cagalli. Another thing to remember is the role was forced upon her because her Father died and the people needed someone to look to as a leader, hence she was selected due to her blood.
ORB politics were handled poorly as ORB isn't as important as ZAFT or the Feds. Even than ZAFT and Fed politics were handled poorly as well as you don't see internal struggle in either faction anymore. Especially the Feds who have no representative than Logos working behind the scenes and Neo Roanoke. She had her doubts but that doesn't change that she still felt that Yuna would do more good than harm for ORB. That and she was talked into the marriage being rushed because the people were confused and they needed a distraction. It was a Political move and a smart one, the only issue is that Cagalli didn't love Yuna but had to lie for the people. It doesn't have to serve her interests, Cagalli was lead to believe that the wedding was needed because it was for the best interest of the people of ORB. Thus she was guilt tripped into it and giving up her ring that Athrun gave her, as she had to, was pretty much her resigning to her fate of marrying a man she didn't love because she desired ORB to be happy even if she wasn't happy. No idea what they wanted to achieve. To be fair they didn't have anyone else set up to rule ORB after SEED considering her Father and nearly all his loyalists died with him. They could have sent a grunt in their place, the only reason they stayed to die was because of their guilt even if they felt they were right for not bending a knee to the Feds. Problem is that by doing that they left Cagalli with very few potential allies or those that could help guide her in ruling ORB. Had her father lived he would have saw through Yuna's schemes and would have called off the wedding and wouldn't have lost much from it because of his reputation and experience which the people trusted deeply. Even if it cost many ORB lives in SEED because of that trust. It's a SEED syndrome, sorta like how no matter what SEED and SEED Destiny go above and beyond to try and make Kira right in every single situation possible. And when he's wrong and gets trashed for it they always save Kira and than later go with that Kira was still right anyway. |
2013-01-24, 14:48 | Link #5639 | ||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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2013-01-25, 00:10 | Link #5640 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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So based on this event, the show doesn't consider this as similar to USA abandoning democracy. Quote:
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mecha, seed it and weep |
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