[Manga] Naruto Chapter 586 Discussion

[Ero-Senn1n]

I wanted Kabuto to convert to the good side just before he dies, now it seems this is possible, even if i didn't give that scenario too much chance (also i thought that it could be Naruto who converts him finally, since he already influenced Kabuto's thinking, but if Kabuto survive this situation then maybe this may come true later). In part one of the manga Kabuto was on the side of the evil guy but he was mysterious, so there was a chance that he becomes a more interesting character than Orochimaru, too bad that Kishimoto didn't develop Kabuto's character after the timeskip. Sure he healed Sakura and gave some speech there, but i think that was far from enough, Kishimoto should have revealed a bit more, making a mystery of what really motivates Kabuto, so then the current chapters would be more interesting and also more beliveable.

The interesting thing is what will Sasuke learn from Itachi's speech

[james0246]

I was bored, so...

Originally Posted by Mists

Hopefully Kabuto keeps trying. I'm a bit disappointed by the many possible holes that this presented like:

1. How did Itachi learn this?

Undoubtedly he read about it in the Uchiha Clan Scroll, which seems to contain info on everything from the Rinnegan, to EMS, to the Jyuubi and the Bijuu.

Originally Posted by Mists

2. How didnt' Danzo learn this to use against Tobi or Sas?

How did Danzou even know about Izanagi? It's unclear where he got his info from, so there is no way to know how or why he only knew of one of the two supreme techniques.

Originally Posted by Mists

4. Wouldn't Itachi's eyes come back since he's Edo Itachi

Apparently Izanagi/Izanami affects the soul...?

Originally Posted by Mists

5. Why didn't Itachi do this vs Sasuke, if he's losing his sight anyway he might as well trap Sasuke's fate

Why would he have needed to do this to Sasuke? The point of the Sasuke battle was to let Sasuke kill Itachi (thus, letting Sasuke believe that he avenged his clan). There was no reason to use Izanami or Izanagi in such a fight (especially considering that Itachi was already dying).

Originally Posted by Mists

6. Plus Itachi has one more eye, why not go to Tobi now and do the same?

Tobi can also, probably, use Izanami. And even if he couldn't, he could always use Izanagi to potentially escape Izanami. Much the same as only a high powered Sharingan or an MS can escape Tsukuyomi, I see no reason that a Sharingan or an MS couldn't be used to escape Izanami.

Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan

got ready to post but the more i think about it. this chapter was so out there.( as far as the out of nowhere power up itachi has now) to be honest....i got nothing

I'm kind of in the same boat. I really do not know what to feel about this new technique or this chapter. I did like the feeling of hopelessness that was slowly building near the end. Kishimoto paced the mood quite well. But, the new technique also seems a bit unneeded. I would have greatly preferred Itachi and Sasuke simply fighting a long fight before defeating Kabuto (I was really liking Kabuto's abilities, even if it looks like he is waving a giant phallus in the Uchiha's faces), rather than some new technique being used to end the fight.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by james0246

Tobi can also, probably, use Izanami. And even if he couldn't, he could always use Izanagi to potentially escape Izanami. Much the same as only a high powered Sharingan or an MS can escape Tsukuyomi, I see no reason that a Sharingan or an MS couldn't be used to escape Izanami.

Still, if you could force him to use Izanagi to escape from Izanami right now, it'd be huge. He'd either have to sacrifice one of his only two Rinnegan, or sacrifice the Sharingan that lets him phase like a hacker. Would totally be worth it.

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by james0246

Undoubtedly he read about it in the Uchiha Clan Scroll, which seems to contain info on everything from the Rinnegan, to EMS, to the Jyuubi and the Bijuu.

Its the Uchipedia.

[Lycodrake]

Uchiha confirmed to have known everything from their scrolls.
Nothing new there.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by GDB

Still, if you could force him to use Izanagi to escape from Izanami right now, it'd be huge. He'd either have to sacrifice one of his only two Rinnegan, or sacrifice the Sharingan that lets him phase like a hacker. Would totally be worth it.

Save for the fact that Tobi has a room full of Sharingan, and there is no reason to believe he couldn't simply summon another eye to him at any time (or summon himself to his eyes).

That being said, as usual, the plan you are speaking of requires logic, and sadly Naruto characters often lose any semblance of logic as soon as they plan any course of action.

[Salt]

I don't follow Naruto, but I do check in on occasion for the summaries.

It's occasional techniques like Izanami that makes it worth the time.

From what I have seen from the scanslations and from other forums. What it does is it traps the victim in a real "ground-hog day".

The reset point was set just before Itachi cutting of Kabuto horn. Everything from the horn cut point forward is just Itachi giving Kabuto a lecture, to the point when he activates the Izanami. Then the "loopping" begins.

Unless Kabuto follows the "golden path" laid out by Itachi, things will keep resetting. IMO effectively the whole world, the whole universe resets. EVERYTHING is resetted with the exception of the victim's memory.

In another words Kabuto is fucked unless he does exactly what Itachi wants him to do. If he can't bring himself to do - or worse can't figure out what it is - he (and the rest of the world; but the rest of the world won't feel it) will be trapped ... forever.

Endless 8. Very interest technique, much more interesting than it's Izanagi counterpart.

[Ulquiorra]

Is this the longest Naruto has been out of the spotlight? Even during the war, Kishi would update his training every 5 or 6 chapters. But he hasn't been around since February as we started Itachi and Kabuto Shippuden.

[Mateus]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Is this the longest Naruto has been out of the spotlight? Even during the war, Kishi would update his training every 5 or 6 chapters. But he hasn't been around since February as we started Itachi and Kabuto Shippuden.

The Sasuke vs Itachi (then Sasukue vs Deidara before that) got a lot of "It's the Sasuke show now" because it was focusing on him more than Naruto at the time. I'm more interested in seeing the 5 kages each taking on 5 Madara clones...that fight needs to be shown and not skipped over/off panel.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Mateus

The Sasuke vs Itachi (then Sasukue vs Deidara before that) got a lot of "It's the Sasuke show now" because it was focusing on him more than Naruto at the time. I'm more interested in seeing the 5 kages each taking on 5 Madara clones...that fight needs to be shown and not skipped over/off panel.

yea, sasuke took over the manga for a while back then too. shikamaru did for a bit during the immortals arc but even then naruto was learning rasen shuriken. i'm psyched about all 3 fights right now. above all I want to know everything about tobi and how his fight turns out, but I can wait. I'm not entirely thrilled with izamani since it seems 'too' powerful, but I still kind of like it. it fits the situation well and was expected to exist since izanagi was revealed. I'm interested to see how kabuto handles not being in control of his own fate. as much as people hate on uchiha hax I dont mind it. the story clearly became a dna show a while back and the uchiha are the descendants of the RS's eldest son so it makes sense that the most powerful uchiha would have these godlike powers.

[Ulquiorra]

I really don't care about Naruto taking the manga back. The Tobi fight could take six months and we could be sick of seeing Naruto, Sakura cheerlead, or even Shino saying "..." every chapter. I am just Uchihaed out.

Originally Posted by Mateus

I'm more interested in seeing the 5 kages each taking on 5 Madara clones...that fight needs to be shown and not skipped over/off panel.

There is nothing to be shown except the Kages getting slaughtered. That fight is totally tied to this one. The Kages cannot survive against 25 Madara clones. The only thing that can save them is Kabuto undoing Edo Tensei. Which will be done just as they are about to be killed.

There is nothing to see in that fight. Tsunade and Onooki already went all out. Gaara and A already had their moments for the war.

The only fight left with any mystery and importance is Naruto vs. Tobi. Since something has to happen to prolong the story. And where Sasuke will head after his Itachi talk.

[Mateus]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

There is nothing to be shown except the Kages getting slaughtered. That fight is totally tied to this one. The Kages cannot survive against 25 Madara clones. The only thing that can save them is Kabuto undoing Edo Tensei. Which will be done just as they are about to be killed.

There is nothing to see in that fight. Tsunade and Onooki already went all out. Gaara and A already had their moments for the war.

Okay I'll give you that, I just really don't want to see Edo-Madara go away anytime soon.

[milan kyuubi]

Honestly, this current fight bores me. Sharingan so hexed up and broken now, it has become ridiculous.
Naruto's fight is way more interesting then this imo!

[Salt]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

I'm not entirely thrilled with izamani since it seems 'too' powerful, but I still kind of like it. it fits the situation well and was expected to exist since izanagi was revealed. I'm interested to see how kabuto handles not being in control of his own fate. as much as people hate on uchiha hax I dont mind it. the story clearly became a dna show a while back and the uchiha are the descendants of the RS's eldest son so it makes sense that the most powerful uchiha would have these godlike powers.

The Izamani is "powerful" in the sense that it seems to bend the entire of reality itself - much like the Izanagi bends the casters local reality.

But the results are fairly "mundane" in that all it does is force someone to do something, with limitations similar to other mind-control techs in that the person must be capable of doing it. The novel way (weaponised groundhog day LOL) it goes about doing it is what makes it interesting - and unlike other mind-control techs it can't be "dispel", but you can convince the victim to change his mind after he escapes.

And personally I don't think kabuto is going to "glitch" out of it. It would kind of defeat the purpose of introducing the tech in the first place.

The whole fight mostly seem to serve as character development for kabuto and probably sasuke (depending on what itachi has to say to him).

Would Sasuke end up finally doing an 180? Maybe he would turn neutral ... or he could continue on the way he is ... What is going to happen to kabuto though ...

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Salt

The Izamani is "powerful" in the sense that it seems to bend the entire of reality itself - much like the Izanagi bends the casters local reality.

izanami doesn't bend the entire of reality. it is also localized to a specific ninja, just the opponent instead of the caster like in izanagi. so only kabuto's mind is effected in this case. just look at the last panel of ch 586. itachi and sasuke are just standing there while kabuto goes over the same events in his own head.

[james0246]

Personally, Izanami seems too similar to Tsukuyomi, just without a potential time limit. Itachi stills controls a specific "space" and somewhat what happens in that space.

[Mateus]

Izanami is blowing my mind at the moment - it really seems (to me anyway) that is affecting Kabuto like a genjutsu without him knowing its a genjutsu.

[a3jay14]

How do they undo the edo-tensei if kabuto can't be killed? Are they going to persuade him to undo it just like what naruto did to nagato?

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Sharingan so hexed up and broken now, it has become ridiculous.

...Really? I honestly don't see anything in this fight any more broken (or even as broken imo) than someone being able to take on 5 bijuu. As strong as Itachi and Sasuke are, they really didn't seem that impressive during this fight to me, let alone complaining about them being over-powered.

For all the powers that the sharingan has, Sasuke has not made much use of anything besides the MS powers, and even those has been seeming rather mediocre as of late, what with the caliber of opponents we've been seeing.

The sharingan can copy jutsu, yet Sasuke has not used this ability for hundreds of chapters. The sharingan can also make an opponents next move obvious, yet Sasuke has not made significant use of this either, in fact, even when he did he was still seriously injured by the likes of Killer-Bee, and Raikage. Even heavy-hitter techniques like amaterasu and susanoo have been shown to be counterable, as he hasn't one-hit killed any relevant opponents with them.

By no means has Sasuke been rolling over his opponents; on the contrary he actually runs into some challenges, so I don't see why people complain so much him being "hax", especially considering how strong Naruto has become.

[james0246]

^The Bijuu are amazingly powerful, but seemingly any Sharingan can literally rewrite reality itself. There is no way to even properly quantize Izanami or Izanagi, so trying to compare them to simple power (the bijuu) is very hard if not impossible (especially considering that the Sharingan actually has the power to control the Bijuu (or at least the Kyuubi)).