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Old 2010-12-22, 06:40   Link #61
applejuice
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^ It only looks like you are trying to just force character into the schema without any deep basis... It's 'COMPARE TO' other studios. When 'other' studios do 100 pantu shot, kyoani does 1. That's it. You also do know that past kyoani and post-yamakan kyoani are completely 'different studio' from one to another, so you can't really bring Suzumiya Haruhi season 1 or Full Metal Pani into the argument on 'current' states of Kyoto Animation, right?...

Plus, about your editing, K-On is pretty much the only thing you can call 'total moe oriented' show that Kyoto animation ever made. All the others had different charm one to another. It is just kyoani shows 'happens' to do somewhat moe...no it actually isn't, Kyoto animation was 'creating' moe.

Beside, Suzumiya Haruhi is no different from K-On. No-one predicted, even otakus did not predicted Haruhi will be such a big hit and sales becomes like 40000. It was not because it was appealed just otaku. It actually CONVERTED non-otaku person into otaku and that's the whole different manner from just stimulating otaku demand and desires. It's about creating a whole new demand, and that's comes from being 'different'.
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Old 2010-12-22, 06:43   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
^ It only looks like you are trying to just force character into the schema without any deep basis... It's 'COMPARE TO' other studios. When 'other' studios do 100 pantu shot, kyoani does 1. That's it. You also do know that past kyoani and post-yamakan kyoani are completely 'different studio' from one to another, so you can't really bring Suzumiya Haruhi season 1 or Full Metal Pani into the argument on 'current' states of Kyoto Animation, right?...

Plus, about your editing, K-On is pretty much the only thing you can call 'total moe oriented' show that Kyoto animation ever made. All the others had different charm one to another. It is just kyoani shows 'happens' to do somewhat moe...no it actually isn't, Kyoto animation was 'creating' moe.

Beside, Suzumiya Haruhi is no different from K-On. No-one predicted, even otakus did not predicted Haruhi will be such a big hit and sales becomes like 40000. It was not because it was appealed just otaku. It actually CONVERTED non-otaku person into otaku and that's the whole different manner from just stimulating otaku demand and desires. It's about creating a whole new demand, and that's comes from being 'different'.
So basically what you're saying is I should have no way to argue my case right? I don't know when I got saddled with the burden of proof here, but I'm not exactly seeing much of a clear case based on evidence being presented from the other side so that's kind of okay for now.
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Old 2010-12-22, 06:47   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkor View Post

so DEEN is doing the work and had not had a well perceived output as of late? why should we assume this particular work is going to fail? if we go by their past records, BL works done by DEEN have been fairly successful in the past: Junjou Romantica and Hetalia may come to mind. But that's besides the point: even if another studio was doing the animation production, why should we already assume it's a failure?
Well, in fairness to Reckoner, I often see anime fans write things like "This is by SHAFT, so of course I'm going to watch it" (and that's actually all they say about an upcoming show!) or "It's by Kyoto Animation, so you just know it's going to be awesome!".

Shouldn't this sort of reasoning work both ways? In other words, if an anime is destined for greatness by sheer virtue of the animation studio handling it, then can't a different anime also be said to be doomed for failure by sheer virtue of the animation studio handling it?

Either animation studios really do mean that much, or they don't. You can't have it both ways, in my opinion.

Personally, I think fans sometimes put too much stock in which animation studio handles which works - every animation studio (that I know of) has at least some misses to their name (yes, even Kyoto Animation, at least commercially - Munto anyone?), and most have at least a very good anime or two to their name.
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Old 2010-12-22, 06:47   Link #64
applejuice
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@Kaioshin Sama: ... what do you mean about 'my case'?

Edited:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, in fairness to Reckoner, I often see anime fans write things like "This is by SHAFT, so of course I'm going to watch it" (and that's actually all they say about an upcoming show!) or "It's by Kyoto Animation, so you just know it's going to be awesome!".

Shouldn't this sort of reasoning work both ways? In other words, if an anime is destined for greatness by sheer virtue of the animation studio handling it, then can't a different anime also be said to be doomed for failure by sheer virtue of the animation studio handling it?

Either animation studios really do mean that much, or they don't. You can't have it both ways, in my opinion.

Personally, I think fans sometimes put too much stock in which animation studio handles which works - every animation studio (that I know of) has at least some misses to their name (yes, even Kyoto Animation, at least commercially - Munto anyone?), and most have at least a very good anime or two to their name.
I understand you, but SHAFT, Kyoto Animation and Gainax are exceptions of all the other studios. They have significantly larger influence during adaptation of something than any other studios, especially SHAFT.

*and about Munto, it does not exist!!
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Old 2010-12-22, 06:53   Link #65
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Kaioshin Sama has a point there. I like KyoAni, mainly because of the potentially high production quality they can achieve, but those praises are clearly too much. A lot of the points raised are indeed used by KyoAni. Perhaps the point should be they were used correctly or not as badly (most of the time, anyway...). Okay, scratch that, misinterpreted the post. I still stand by my next point though.

"excess of sugar-characters (ie. totally useless clumsy dolts)"
Even barring all other KyoAni works that have this element, watching K-ON! was akin to being fed fistfuls of raw sugar.

Last edited by Kakkou; 2010-12-22 at 07:06.
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Old 2010-12-22, 06:55   Link #66
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I'll definitely watch Gintama, the world only god knows and the two Noitamina shows. Everything I'll judge based on the first episode.
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2010 was a very bad year for anime.
Very bad? You either have no taste what so ever or you haven't seen any of the series produced in 2010.
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Old 2010-12-22, 06:56   Link #67
felix
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@ Kaioshin Sama

Weren't you talking (only) about K-on earlier? Since that's what I assumed.

As I recall you didn't exactly hate the first series of Haruhi (*checks posts* yup that's right! yey for archives). And don't remember you complaining about FMP being some moe show either... Not to mention all this hypocritic KyoAni bashing came (largely) after K-on.

In any case, I was ONLY referring to K-on with that list. I don't generalize into everything like you do. The point was KyoAni has made series that defy the the "standard". Your argument showing me how by putting ALL of the KyoAni series togheter since the f*cking dawn of time, you could barely find 1 scene/character (and even those barely in range), merely proves my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakkou View Post
"excess of sugar-characters (ie. totally useless clumsy dolts)"
Even barring all other KyoAni works that have this element, watching K-ON! was akin to being fed fistfuls of raw sugar.
Characters that get "character development" (or do something "non-sugar" related at some point; which all characters in K-on do) aren't sugar characters.
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Old 2010-12-22, 07:02   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
@ Kaioshin Sama

Weren't you talking (only) about K-on earlier? Since that's what I assumed.

As I recall you didn't exactly hate the first series of Haruhi (*checks posts* yup that's right! yey for archives). And don't remember you complaining about FMP being some moe show either... Not to mention all this hypocritic KyoAni bashing came (largely) after K-on.

In any case, I was ONLY referring to K-on with that list. I don't generalize into everything like you do. The point was KyoAni has made series that defy the the "standard". Your argument showing me how by putting ALL of the KyoAni series togheter since the f*cking dawn of time, you could barely find 1 scene/character (and even those barely in range), merely proves my point.


I'm just left scratching my head to this one folks, I have no idea what he's on about. Sorry, but it's up to others to figure this one out for now, I'm off to bed.
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Old 2010-12-22, 07:04   Link #69
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post


I'm just left scratching my head to this one folks, I have no idea what he's on about. Sorry, but it's up to others to figure this one out for now, I'm off to bed.
Someone give this man a Twitter account.
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Old 2010-12-22, 07:18   Link #70
applejuice
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Just one last thing, because I want to be clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
So basically what you're saying is I should have no way to argue my case right? I don't know when I got saddled with the burden of proof here, but I'm not exactly seeing much of a clear case based on evidence being presented from the other side so that's kind of okay for now.
Proof? Clear case? What I said was all general understanding and known facts. Simple example of logics here;

1. Suzumiya Haruhi Season 1 sold 40000, which was the biggest success for TV animation at that time. There was huge amount of increase in otaku population after Suzumiya Haruhi's success.
2. Over 20000 of DVD/BD sales means that it sold even those who don't usually by Anime DVD/BD.
*. Based on 1 and 2, we can find out that there was sort of 'conversion' went on from non-otaku to otaku population.

Another one?
1. K-On was total moe oriented show without doubt.
2. Full Metal Panic Fumoffu = Not moe centered,
Second raid = Not,
Suzumiya Haruhi = PIONEERED entirely new sort of moe, but it was still not moe oriented, but more of twisted sci-fi romance.
Keys = sad, romance stories, a bit of moe was mostly ignored by dramas.
Munto = Fail
*K-On = Only TOTAL moe oriented anime Kyoani has ever done.
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Old 2010-12-22, 07:29   Link #71
Kakkou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Characters that get "character development" (or do something "non-sugar" related at some point; which all characters in K-on do) aren't sugar characters.
Well I dropped K-ON! at some point after the middle of the first season (for a number of other reasons) but I'll take your word for it. Still, despite the possibility of it having character development and such, you have to admit overall K-ON! is undeniably a rather... sugary sweet show. Not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, just different strokes.

Anyway discussion has derailed quite a bit, so to make my post on-topic:

Kaminomi 2, Steins;Gate, Deadman Wonderland and Ao no Exorcist are a definite must-watch for me while Denpa Onna and Sket Dance pique my interest, though the SHAFTtard in me will most likely result in me sticking with Denpa for sure. OVA wise Yozakura, BakaTest, xxxHolic, Air Gear and Princess Resurrection will be the ones for me.
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Old 2010-12-22, 07:41   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkor View Post
my problem is how the person cherrypicked a theme (or should we say genre (?)) and made mockery of it. if a work deals with same sex relationships, should we make the assumption it is going to fail, based on a summary, a picture, and without actually watching the show itself? the latter comes off as a superior attitude.
Fail's a subjective term and concept. What succeeds for one is fail for others. And although ideally, everyone would be open to everything, first impressions do matter. After all, most people wouldn't watch every show. You usually need some kind of filter. And I will say that having Deen's name on it does hurt it a bit, given their tendency of insanely cutting corners in many of their recent shows.

But hey, when evidence to the contrary is shown (there's something interesting about it), then yea ignoring that would be silly. But it's really their loss.

Really, it's just an opinion that doesn't attack other opinions or groups of people. It's not like someone hating something is gonna ruin the enjoyment for everyone else. The only thing under attack are the writers and producers, and since they are putting their work out for public display, they shouldn't mind being placed under public scrutiny-- I'm sure they can stand up for themselves and they do not care about what a few random people on the internet think. So there's no need to protect them from harmful words.
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Old 2010-12-22, 07:55   Link #73
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakkou View Post
Still, despite the possibility of it having character development and such, you have to admit overall K-ON! is undeniably a rather... sugary sweet show.
Yeah, it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakkou View Post
Anyway discussion has derailed quite a bit
(happens a lot with Kaioshin around)

-

I'll maybe check out...
  • Nichijou
  • AppleseedXIII
  • TWGOK, S2
  • Hidan no Aria
  • Ao no Exorcist
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Old 2010-12-22, 08:03   Link #74
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It's a surprise. Seems that J.C. Staff is preparing their biggest arsenal for Fall 2011 (Shakugan no Shana III).

As for Spring 2011, yeah. No series worth watching.
Oh well, I still have a heap of series to watch.
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Old 2010-12-22, 09:28   Link #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
It's a surprise. Seems that J.C. Staff is preparing their biggest arsenal for Fall 2011 (Shakugan no Shana III).

As for Spring 2011, yeah. No series worth watching.
Oh well, I still have a heap of series to watch.
For spring show, I want to watch two titles based on my favorite manga (even Hidan no Aria is based on a light novel)
For Deadman Wonderland, it look like Seikon no Qwaser because the main ennemy for the protagonist is mysterious but secret to peer. For Hidan no Aria, i hope that Yuka Iguchi will voice the tsundere lead, but if it's Rie Kugimiya again (because Takeshi Watanabe is a director of Shakugan no Shana), I even can watch despite I hate hear Aria's voice by Kugimiya rather than Iguchi.
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Old 2010-12-22, 11:08   Link #76
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I usually don't like getting hyped for the spring season when winter hasn't even started, but this is looking damn good.

Definitely watching:
- Ao no Exorcist (fun manga on Nichigo, the series I'll be fanboying over the most for sure)
- Sekaiichi Hatsukoi (I'm faaaar from being a Nakamura Shungiku fan, but a BL TV series is always fun anyway, and could make up for the cocktease disappointment Togainu ended up being)
- Hana Saku Iroha (oh how I missed you, my true tears P.A. Works!)
- Deadman Wonderland (Manglobe, please, a decent adaptation?)
- Steins;Gate (as it's already been said, a highly-regarded 5pb./Nitro+ game with a capable team to adapt it this time around, woo~)

Then Sket Dance and the noitaminA series are fairly probable (though the latter are leaving me skeptical for the first time in a few seasons: Nakamura Kenji series unfortunately aren't my cup of tea, and the single picture we've got of AnoHana isn't all that promising).
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Old 2010-12-22, 13:03   Link #77
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Okay...

Let's remember that the topic is Spring 2011 shows NOT Kyoto Animation (which has its own thread!).

Any more will be considered off-topic and dealt as such.
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Old 2010-12-22, 13:12   Link #78
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Hoshizora e Kakaru Hashi was also announced to get a 12-episode TV anime scheduled for April.
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Old 2010-12-22, 17:43   Link #79
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Which broadcaster for the next VN adaptation?
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Old 2010-12-22, 18:24   Link #80
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Uh, my avatar and signature speak for themselves, Yugioh Zexal it is.
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