2011-12-12, 06:36 | Link #18201 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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I find this anti-anglo stuff a bit hard to bear. I feel like I've walked into a Sinn Féin meeting...
I think a key thing to remember is that this is a Eurozone problem. Why should countries with independent currencies have to join such a mechanism? I can understand why Eurozone economies need further regulation, but not why countries with independent currencies. |
2011-12-12, 06:49 | Link #18202 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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But I guess we should drop this. I don't feel that anything new or worthwhile is coming out of it. |
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2011-12-12, 07:10 | Link #18203 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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But Britain blocked it from being an EU mechanism, but not from being a Eurozone mechanism (which is what it should be), because, of course, the UK is not in the Eurozone, and so can't block it. I think it's important to delineate the two. The Eurozone!=EU. There are countries outside the EU that use the Euro, and countries in the EU that don't use the Euro. I think it's appropriate to limit these financial reforms to countries using the Euro, those who wish to join the Euro in the future, and those who wish to voluntarily join. I don't think countries who are not in the Eurozone should be compelled towards any financial reforms, as those countries can not bring down the Eurozone. That's not to say that there shouldn't be an EU wide financial reform, but I think the Euro has to be dealt with first. Either way, the Eurozone should be more tightly regulated financially then the EU as a whole. I do also like the idea of the financial services tax that they were proposing, obviously it's Cameron's right to fight it tooth and nail. Every country has it's bugbears. Ireland has it's neutrality, which pretty much means we'll always veto any kind of EU wide army or foreign policy. |
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2011-12-12, 07:36 | Link #18204 | |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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A few hacker teams do most China-based data theft
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...12-12-06-51-17 Quote:
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2011-12-12, 07:42 | Link #18205 | ||
Banned
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Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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When Cameron vetoed the attempt of the Eurozone countries to embed their required rule changes into the Lisbon treaty, he essentially slammed the door. "You won't fix your problems without our consent, and without giving us the veto we demand". He did NOT - I repeat: NOT - say "do as you please, but only in the Eurozone". If this is the impression that's spread in the British media, it's _wrong_. Therefore, the 26 countries are now beginning a separate treaty _aside_ of Lisbon. And this is the kicker: They say "fine then, we'll go ahead on our own". Here, Cameron stuttered "but, but... you can't DO that! You can't use European institutions as described in Lisbon for your separate treaty". Merkel and Sarkozy said: "Sure we can. Our lawyers said that there's no problem with that". This slumbering conflict can very well flare up soon. Because depending on the legal outcome of this, it may very well happen that the UK will soon be the only remaining member of Lisbon. |
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2011-12-12, 13:12 | Link #18206 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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i think Mentar is a tad too optimistic about the survival of the Euro
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2011-12-12, 14:01 | Link #18207 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Yes, the cash flow to Germany, Switzerland and other countries deemed "safe havens" is enormous, Germany's TARGET2 credits are increasing by some 60 bn Euro per month, the last time I looked they were already around 460 bn Euro. German, British and even US bonds (who have already been downrated and were short of going bankrupt just a few weeks ago) have very low interest rates at the moment for that reason, too.
About who benefits most from the current bail-outs, aside from the PIIGS themselves, are countries (or its banks) that lent money to the PIIGS, the biggest creditors are: 1. France 2. Germany 3. UK And the UK has the luck that they are not participating in any bail-outs through the ECB, ESFS etc., so essentially German taxpayers are helping save the UK. I think the UK is in a rather fortunate position, the only thing I'm happy about is that people are currently pointing fingers at them, so we Germans might not have to take all the blame once the house of cards collapses. The UK is currently just a scape goat, just like Germany was when it hesitated to bail out Greece back in 2010. No one today really believes that bailing out earlier would have prevented the crisis (and Germany was never obligated to do any bail-outs and the ECB was not allowed to, when the Euro was created all countries agreed upon never bailing out any member), just like I think these new rules (which are largely already existing rules) will help. Merkel and Sarkozy have not even declared how exactly "deficit sinners" are to be punished - you can't take money from a broke man. Merkel is always talking about "new, stricter rules" in exchange for bail outs and lost sovereignty, while there is one thing we have learned about Europe during this crisis: no one gives a fuck about the rules. The only thing that will remain are having to bail out other countries and having lost sovereignty. With the new ESM mechanism (scheduled for mid 2012) it can get even funnier, because the members are obligated to transfer unlimited amounts of money on request. Giving up on 100% majorities will back fire some day for Germany, I can already see it coming. |
2011-12-12, 16:01 | Link #18208 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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"Er...can we have that back?":
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16150384
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2011-12-12, 16:59 | Link #18209 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Two Putin-era Russians seek liberal mantle
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7BB13V20111212 How many time before at least one of them will put in jail ?
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2011-12-12, 17:15 | Link #18210 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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2011-12-12, 17:23 | Link #18212 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2011-12-12, 17:35 | Link #18213 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Maybe. I could see some southern states deciding to return to their own national currencies. But not an end of the Euro in itself. Then again, expect stories like these to continue to pop up in anglophile finance media. They've been campaigning against the Euro since day 1 of its inception.
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2011-12-12, 17:42 | Link #18214 | |
Not Enough Sleep
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Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2011-12-12, 17:50 | Link #18215 |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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There may be a possibility that Iran might reverse engineer the wing and use them to monitor US bases in the Gulf and assist insurgents in their attacks in Afghaniatan, Kuwait and Iraq. That itself is a tremendous advantage against the US already.
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2011-12-12, 18:38 | Link #18218 | ||
Banned
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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