(L) Aku No Hana (Flowers of Evil)

[MagicWhiteLight]

Originally Posted by GDiddy

I watched the first three episodes of this so far and........I love it.

The animation isn't turning me off at all though I think this would've worked better as a live version show.

Everyone is even uglier than Reign though.

Ah. Cool. Why 90% of people who watch do not like the animation? Only that I like the rotoscoping? Well, I read the manga (I await the next chapter, haha) and I think that even if the rotoscoping not fit well in the beginning, would, in my humble opinion, horrible if used another style of animation for when the series start treating the topics that want to treat. Still not even started talking about the main theme. Probably will only appear there for episode 8. The rotoscoping is a type of animation threatening, if I may say so. This may be a spoiler, but anyway, I think it will get better as well.

And could you explain why would be better in a live show? I do not watch much, I got lost here. I'm an idiot. xDD

[4Tran]

It's extremely rare that I pause episodes so many times in a viewing session - Aku no Hana is just so uncomfortable to watch. I love how unsettling the whole affair is.

This is a shot that I don't see a whole lot of regular anime trying to pull off:



It's shots like this that vindicate the decision (as if any is needed any more) to go all rotoscope.

I'm also amused that the background artists decided to use Chinese novels as the interior establishing shot of the library.

[vaden]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

It's shots like this that vindicate the decision (as if any is needed any more) to go all rotoscope.

People keep saying this, but I can't believe that the direction and cinematography are so intimately wedded to the rotoscoping that the former would have been impossible without the latter. I see virtually nothing that keeps this scene from being reproduced with traditional animation.

[4Tran]

There's two different factors at play here. The first is that the feeling of discomfort engendered by the show owes a lot to the oddity of the production. Some of it comes from the dialogue and delivery, some of it comes from the sound design, but the majority comes from the rotoscoping.

The second factor is that most anime characters don't move in the fashion of the ones in Aku no Hana. They don't uses the same kinds of poses, and they're generally not composed in the same way. Sure, it'd be technically possible to replicate a similar effect using traditional techniques, but nobody does it like that. I see the latter being a huge obstacle to accomplishing the same thing.

[GDiddy]

Originally Posted by MagicWhiteLight

Ah. Cool. Why 90% of people who watch do not like the animation? Only that I like the rotoscoping? Well, I read the manga (I await the next chapter, haha) and I think that even if the rotoscoping not fit well in the beginning, would, in my humble opinion, horrible if used another style of animation for when the series start treating the topics that want to treat. Still not even started talking about the main theme. Probably will only appear there for episode 8. The rotoscoping is a type of animation threatening, if I may say so. This may be a spoiler, but anyway, I think it will get better as well.

And could you explain why would be better in a live show? I do not watch much, I got lost here. I'm an idiot. xDD

To me it just looks like that they filmed it at first and then traced all over it later while in animation, is what I meant

[MagicWhiteLight]

Originally Posted by GDiddy

To me it just looks like that they filmed it at first and then traced all over it later while in animation, is what I meant

They did something like that...

[vaden]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

There's two different factors at play here. The first is that the feeling of discomfort engendered by the show owes a lot to the oddity of the production. Some of it comes from the dialogue and delivery, some of it comes from the sound design, but the majority comes from the rotoscoping.

Where you say some/some/most, I'd argue some/most/little-if-any. The rotoscoping has generally been little more than a distraction for me from day one, and unfortunately it's found new ways to draw negative attention to itself as the weeks go by. I won't belabor the point, since I've already discussed some of my biggest issues with it in previous posts.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The second factor is that most anime characters don't move in the fashion of the ones in Aku no Hana. They don't uses the same kinds of poses, and they're generally not composed in the same way. Sure, it'd be technically possible to replicate a similar effect using traditional techniques, but nobody does it like that. I see the latter being a huge obstacle to accomplishing the same thing.

I see your point with regards to that particular shot. Thinking over it, for instance, I can't see most animators bothering with putting so many "extras" in the frame, especially on a relatively close shot where CG shortcuts would stick out like a sore thumb. I do think, however, that where the rotoscoping giveth, the rotoscoping taketh away; what's gained in the unusual application of live-action cinematography techniques is lost in the show's overly mechanical approach. I frequently get the impression that the animators are like scribes trying to copy a manuscript in a language they don't understand, and missing a lot of important details as a result.

I point back to my earlier comparison of the live-action original and the rotoscoped drawing — in the second set of images, Saeki's facial expression ends up getting just about completely obliterated. A hypothetical full-on live action version would get the message across, no problem, and at the very least a normally animated version would make it visible, if perhaps overly obvious. The actual end result, on the other hand, doesn't communicate the original face at all. This lack of attention to detail is what does the animation in for me; all the interesting composition in the world can't make up for it.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by vaden

Where you say some/some/most, I'd argue some/most/little-if-any. The rotoscoping has generally been little more than a distraction for me from day one, and unfortunately it's found new ways to draw negative attention to itself as the weeks go by. I won't belabor the point, since I've already discussed some of my biggest issues with it in previous posts.

I think you're reacting a bit too strongly to the ugliness of the rotoscoping. It's true that it doesn't look very nice, but prettiness wasn't a high priority of the production to begin with. If you can't handle it, then it doesn't work for you. However, for a great many of the viewers who appreciate the show, the visuals are a key component of what makes it interesting.

Originally Posted by vaden

I see your point with regards to that particular shot. Thinking over it, for instance, I can't see most animators bothering with putting so many "extras" in the frame, especially on a relatively close shot where CG shortcuts would stick out like a sore thumb. I do think, however, that where the rotoscoping giveth, the rotoscoping taketh away; what's gained in the unusual application of live-action cinematography techniques is lost in the show's overly mechanical approach. I frequently get the impression that the animators are like scribes trying to copy a manuscript in a language they don't understand, and missing a lot of important details as a result.

I can agree with you that the creative staff don't have a complete handle over the material - the fast cuts of Nakamura pouring water over Kasuga being an example. However, the majority of what they attempt works quite well; and the show exhibits better direction than most of the currently airing anime.

On the other hand, modern Japanese live action works tend to be terrible, so the anime is probably a lot better than a hypothetical dorama.

[vaden]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I think you're reacting a bit too strongly to the ugliness of the rotoscoping. It's true that it doesn't look very nice, but prettiness wasn't a high priority of the production to begin with. If you can't handle it, then it doesn't work for you. However, for a great many of the viewers who appreciate the show, the visuals are a key component of what makes it interesting.

My problem isn't restricted to the aesthetics of the rotoscoping. I think parts of it show promise, actually (though I've mostly found myself thinking this about its depiction of Nakamura, for some reason...). The sloppiness of the execution, for lack of a better word, is what really jumps out at me — inconsistencies resulting from obvious shortcuts like jumping straight between the show's usual jitterbug line work and total stillness in the same shot. It's like the animators don't really know what they want.

[sa547]

Originally Posted by GDiddy

The animation isn't turning me off at all though I think this would've worked better as a live version show.

Aku no Hana will not work as a dorama -- it's not for everyone. A close look at the typical live-action fare on Japanese television... tbh, most of them are terribly bland that you wonder if this edgy show could appeal to such a mainstream demographic.

[Goty]

Just watched 6 and couldn't help noticing their class has an Ueno and Urabe. Nazo no Kanojo reference? It's very fitting for some reason..
Anyway, it keeps getting better. Wonder if Nakamura is telling the truth about Saeki.

[cyth]

Either way, Kasuga has a distorted and naive view on women and their supposed purity. Which is something I wouldn't make a point of if he weren't a kid from Japan. As he is though, he sounds more like a kid from Europe where Christianity is deeply rooted in people's mentality.

[Dop]

I still think Kasuga's view on women comes from reading too much stuff by dodgy old French poets, myself.

[Goty]

Originally Posted by Dop

I still think Kasuga's view on women comes from reading too much stuff by dodgy old French poets, myself.

I think it's pretty clear that Kasuga sees the world through his book's lens. Being from Japan doesn't give him a default mindset automatically, especially when he's such an unusual kid.

[Freeter]

Ep 7: that entire classroom sequence. Now THAT is what rotoscoping is all about. If the rest of the show looked like that then they wouldn't have to worry about sales.

No other show this season is going to pull off what that scene did. Not even Titan and its militia of animators.

[YourIdeas]

That final quarter of episode 7 was just beyond amazing to watch. There was no way that scene would've been the same had it been drawn traditionally. It's beyond stunning.

[Aesthetic Shampoo]

That classroom scene was beautiful...

[ElMikkino]

Oh man, that was beautiful, exhilarating and so, so, frightening...

[frubam]

I concur with everyone so far; that classroom since is nothing short of amazing. The sound direction in this episode has been nothing less than perfect as well.

As for the ep itself, I can't believe Kasuga was scott-free, but wanted to gain Nakamura's recognition so much, he'd be willing to castrate himself from his classmates(well, when the morning comes). Nakamura is simply psychotic; a pure psychotic. She was blushing the whole time they were destroying the classroom. So freakin' crazy! This is even more psychotic than Yuno. I mean, at least Yuno had a purpose, but Nakamura...she just wants...hell, I don't know WHAT she wants =0\. A pervert? For what? So she can laugh at his misfortune? I don't even know.

[Aesthetic Shampoo]

Originally Posted by frubam

I concur with everyone so far; that classroom since is nothing short of amazing. The sound direction in this episode has been nothing less than perfect as well.

As for the ep itself, I can't believe Kasuga was scott-free, but wanted to gain Nakamura's recognition so much, he'd be willing to castrate himself from his classmates(well, when the morning comes). Nakamura is simply psychotic; a pure psychotic. She was blushing the whole time they were destroying the classroom. So freakin' crazy! This is even more psychotic than Yuno. I mean, at least Yuno had a purpose, but Nakamura...she just wants...hell, I don't know WHAT she wants =0\. A pervert? For what? So she can laugh at his misfortune? I don't even know.

I always thought Nakamura was a contrast to Kasuga; they both think the world is shit but found different ways to express it. So no goal, just crazy.