Macross Delta - Character Discussion - Mirage Farina Jenius

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Arya

I'm not referring to the punch, that alone was not such a big deal to me, I'm totally fine with it. It was more the general reaction she had that felt over the top. Especially in consideration how nobody cared about it and were totally fine with his attitude. ( Bar Messer, who is not a good reference so it works to reinforce the point ).

But yeah, after episode 4 she already toned down her attitude and the show seems to switch toward a new direction.
Well, they will address it sooner or later in some way.

I don't any particular change, Hayato started show some responsibility so Mirage can't really complain even if she wanted (and she really looks like she does).

[azarhal]

After two episodes of Mirage in civvies, I really like her fashion sense.

She's also coming as a big softy and not has much of an hardass as first though.

[Boukenxha]

I like it too. The feminine suggestion seems able to come out more strongly when she's in civvies... I think.

Also agree with your assessment that she is a big softy inside. She tends to be serious because she cares.

[Arya]

I agree. Also, this episode I found her particularly cute in general.

And she even talked about her relatives (that part was a bit clumsy if you ask me, but due to Hayate usual jerkness toward her).
she doesn't seem to much affected by that after all. I agree that the fact is mostly that she cares.

[ippus]

Originally Posted by Arya

I agree. Also, this episode I found her particularly cute in general.

And she even talked about her relatives (that part was a bit clumsy if you ask me, but due to Hayate usual jerkness toward her).
she doesn't seem to much affected by that after all. I agree that the fact is mostly that she cares.

I think the serious clumsiness was what made me think she was incredibly cute hahaha

She's sort of like those boyish girls who are really bad at talking feelings / being soft and adorable but their insides are made entirely of marshmallow ;w;




...I guess what I'm saying is, I really want to eat Mirage hue

[Boukenxha]

Originally Posted by Arya

I agree. Also, this episode I found her particularly cute in general.

And she even talked about her relatives (that part was a bit clumsy if you ask me, but due to Hayate usual jerkness toward her).
she doesn't seem to much affected by that after all. I agree that the fact is mostly that she cares.

Yeah, and she immediately turn around and ask Hayate about his decision.

I like to assume that means the question must have been burning on her mind and she was anxious to know the answer.

*creepy laughs like Freyja

[Tempester]

Mirage reminds me of Gamlin Kizaki, who is one of the most moe characters in a Macross series. Really looking forward to seeing other sides of her; the scene in the OP where she's alone in her bedroom already hits my moe weakness.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Mind you unverified info. Got it from /m/ which I managed to trace to 2ch. Supposedly from a anime magazine.

アニメ誌より

新統合軍で敵を倒すのに馴染めなかった彼女は、偉大な祖父と祖母から
リン・ミンメイの話を聞き、叔母にミレーヌがいることもあり、歌の力を使う
ワルキューレに興味を抱く。そんな時、アラド隊長からスカウトされ、ケイオスにやってきた。

https://translate.google.com/transla...2F405869325%2F

From the anime magazine

She did not get used to defeat the enemy with Mirage new integrated army, listen to the story of phosphorus Minmay from a great grandfather and grandmother, there is also that there are Mylene to aunt, interested in Valkyrie to use a song of power. At that time, the scout from Arad captain, came to the Chaos.

Mirage was interested in Walküre prior to being scouted by Arad because she had heard about Minmay from her grandparents and then there was also her aunt Mylene.

[D-Joe]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Mind you unverified info. Got it from /m/ which I managed to trace to 2ch. Supposedly from a anime magazine.


https://translate.google.com/transla...2F405869325%2F


Mirage was interested in Walküre prior to being scouted by Arad because she had heard about Minmay from her grandparents and then there was also her aunt Mylene.

It also said that she couldn't get used to the idea of killing one's enemies.(translate also from /a/)

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Alhazred

Spoiler:

Meh, even if he did say that all it really means is that she has to get by on hard work and determination alone, though this also likely means that she will never be as good as a genius who works just as hard; Keith and Hayate's positions as the ace/presumptive future ace are safe.

Spoiler for mmm spoilers episode 11:

That would be great but when have we seen Mirage actually training and showing her 'hard work and determination'? Was this off screen (too)? Because in the battlefield, half of the time, she does almost nothing but getting shot and shouting "Delta Five! Delta Five!" Her best moments are occasionally support to Hayate.

We've seen Hayate and Freyja struggling and training despite their natural talent to meet the expectation of the aces because they took a vow to show off what they are made of. We see nothing of this kind of initiative from Mirage in 11 episodes. Freyja lost her abilities in last episode and we see her training hard in that Walkure camp, getting muddy. Where's this determination Freyja show in Mirage's actions? She takes criticism, bows her head and occasionally gets a scene or two, positive or negative. If that were her arc, wouldn't she joined in Hayate in her "I wanted to show Messer what I am made for" deal? But it didn't happen.

Hayate and Freyja have show not only talent, but also determination and heart about what they want to do. Christ, Freyja shipped herself out her planet and defied her people to follow what she considered right. And it wasn't easy at all.

Yeah, I'm not sure what her character is there for, honestly, besides the triangle. We're about to reach the half of the show and her only significant growth is that she's not hostile with Hayate, nothing about her character remotely changed just a relationship to justify she's there as a potential love interest. Meanwhile Freyja's and Hayate's relationship with each other deepened, sure, but they as characters also grew and matured, and forged bonds with other people, not just with each other. Mirage, so far, has only showed any kind of change in her relationship with Hayate and nothing else.

You're free to tell me I'm "bashing" her, but her characterization has been really awful so far. While they have been competent with mostly everyone else. I'm ready for Kawamori to wow me with Mirage, who I had all the expectation for her to be my favorite girl before I watched the show, and met nothing but complete and utter disappointment in how poorly written and underused she is. It almost feels like Ranka again, only there to make her rival look better, but at least they worried to give Ranka personal growth and focused on other relationships with her too. Eleven episodes in, how long until she actually becomes more than an accessory love interest and transforms into an actual main character to stand by Hayate's and Freyja's side?

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Thess

Spoiler for mmm spoilers episode 11:

That would be great but when have we seen Mirage actually training and showing her 'hard work and determination'? Was this off screen (too)? Because in the battlefield, half of the time, she does almost nothing but getting shot and shouting "Delta Five! Delta Five!" Her best moments are occasionally support to Hayate.

Already answered this question, but if you need a damn time stamp: Episode 6, 5:50. When everyone else is kicking back over beers and bitching about what hardasses Messer and Mikumo are, Mirage is still back in the training center letting Messer harass her one-on-one. There is your example (and granted it is the only one we get, because seeing that every damn episode would be boring), so you can stop saying that we 'never see her put in any effort.'

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Alhazred

Already answered this question, but if you need a damn time stamp: Episode 6, 5:50. When everyone else is kicking back over beers and bitching about what hardasses Messer and Mikumo are, Mirage is still back in the training center letting Messer harass her one-on-one. There is your example (and granted it is the only one we get, because seeing that every damn episode would be boring), so you can stop saying that we 'never see her put in any effort.'

It was a brief shot (a second worth). Hardly the best show of 'hard job and determination' like the stretched scenes of Freyja or Hayate struggling.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Thess

When she's looking at the valkyries and feeling sorry for herself? Hardly the best show of 'hard job and determination'. We don't see her actually train, we see her brood. If they had showed her concerned as she trained, it would be another matter (like they did with Freyja, when she was failing to emit fold waves as she tried her best in her sessions).

...Are you just trolling, or did you not bother to even check the scene referenced?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Alhazred

...Are you just trolling, or did you not bother to even check the scene referenced?

I mistook the scene for another. It was so short it barely registered as anything but a forgettable comment. If that's what amounts her development we're in trouble.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Thess

I mistook the scene for another. It was so short it barely registered as anything but a forgettable comment. If that's what amounts her development we're in trouble.

That is not what counts as her 'development' because that is indeed pretty thin on the ground; it is, however, a minimally sufficient rebuttal to your constant harping that Mirage never shows effort to become a better pilot as compared to Hayate and Freyja's shining examples of struggle and triumph. She doesn't just mope and feel sorry for herself while other characters strive to better themselves, as you have repeatedly claimed. She just doesn't get any screen time to show to showcase her efforts. So yes, she hasn't made a mark for herself in the story thus far, but it's not the character's fault for lack of trying.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Alhazred

That is not what counts as her 'development' because that is indeed pretty thin on the ground; it is, however, a minimally sufficient rebuttal to your constant harping that Mirage never shows effort to become a better pilot as compared to Hayate and Freyja's shining examples of struggle and triumph. She doesn't just mope and feel sorry for herself while other characters strive to better themselves, as you have repeatedly claimed. She just doesn't get any screen time to show to showcase her efforts. So yes, she hasn't made a mark for herself in the story thus far, but it's not the character's fault for lack of trying.

I'm not blaming the character, I'm blaming her abysmal writing: that's why I stated she's poorly characterized. I came to the show predisposed to love Mirage, dislike Freyja and be indifferent to Hayate and the show made me love Freyja, think Mirage's presence superfluous and Hayate became from my most disliked character to one of my favorite in the course of the first 5 episodes. A single short, throw away scene which is so unmemorable cannot really successfully cast Mirage as a "hard worker with lots of determination" when they put far more stretched and focused scenes for her co-protagonists, and using their POVs (Mirage scene was a cutscene of something Chuck said to just salt how underused she is). The scenes when she broods, on the other hand, are more empathized than that one which is the lingering impression her character presents. Her other screen time is about her failures and Hayate.

I'm not sure what they'll do with her if Kawamori believes she has no skill in piloting because of some ridiculous genetic excuse. What's the point of all this then? The hard working and determination angle does not work so well when it was never something they made emphasis on this. And now, a few second scene isn't "emphasis." I think the worst decision they could have done with her character is making her a fellow pilot if they wanted Hayate to be a special ace kind of character because that means she cannot match or overshadow him, if she does, she'll be killed (like Messer). Freyja didn't have this issue because her storyline served as parallel which complemented Hayate's, while Mirage floating around without any direction so far and that's bad writing.

(There's the follow your heart's content storyarc that could salvage this but I'm no longer optimistic about how they'll develop it).

It's not just about her personal growth: They didn't even let her showcase other bonds or deepen other relationships besides Hayate's. The scenes she had with Kaname were just exposition of Kaname to her. While Freyja had Mikumo (and her people) and Hayate had Messer (and Delta Squad in general).

Secondly, what also hurts her is that Delta is intesily a plot-ridden show (Frontier was more character-focused one, IMO) and she doesn't really contribute so far to the main plot like her co protagonist future Keith's rival and Freyja. So this hurts whatever storyarc she might have.

[kuromitsu]

I don't think she's written abysmally. The writing just didn't get around showcasing her yet. There's been an awful lot of things going on in Delta so far, and frankly I'm not blaming them for not focusing on Mirage who was in no position to influence anything so far.

I keep believing that her character arc will start now that Delta squadron has to pull itself together to make up for the loss of Messer. Hayate has already said he'll work extra hard; Mirage will also have to pull her weight even more. One likely possibility is that she'll be either inspired by Hayate (and maybe Freyja) to overcome her insecurities, or maybe she'll get depressed and do the "wah poor girl has hit rock bottom" thing before being inspired by Hayate to overcome her insecurities... (you get the picture )

She's a Jenius girl, no way they'll keep her playing second fiddle. (As I said before, if the show settles the triangle I'll be surprised if Mirage doesn't end up with Hayate. Pleasantly surprised, but surprised nonetheless.)

[Tak]

I am not worried about Mirage's character script, I am worried about the lack of it.

- Tak

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Tak

I am not worried about Mirage's character script, I am worried about the lack of it.

- Tak

This here. Maybe next episodes will be solved but I'm losing hope.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

She's a Jenius girl, no way they'll keep her playing second fiddle. (As I said before, if the show settles the triangle I'll be surprised if Mirage doesn't end up with Hayate. Pleasantly surprised, but surprised nonetheless.)

I have no doubt Mirage will end up with Hayate but so far her entire character is "love interest". She doesn't exist or barely exists outside her role as love interest and that's the problem (that includes her relationships outside of Hayate are stagnant). It doesn't really help that some magazines announcing how Freyja and Hayate will mature after this foretell that Mirage's grand change is that she... will become more feminine and that pisses me off the most. It's like her entire purpose of existence is to be a love interest. Looks like a waste when they could have recycled a Walkure for the triangle if they were going to ignore Mirage outside of this aspect. Here is a chance for her to improve and show off she's a Jenius, but we have Kawamori dismissing her skill and other interviews telling us how she'll become more like a girl. Okay. Great. Let's hope the show does focus on other aspects and relationship of Mirage.

[azarhal]

Mirage isn't written badly per see. Her scenes are about showing her as a lonely character, that's why she barely interact with anyone. Episode 10 and 11 put even more emphasis on that.

Also, I don't think Mirage is going to be inspired by Hayate and/or Freyja. They aren't pushing her at all (like Hayate/Freyja did in the early episodes), they don't even seems to be trying to understand her actually.