Angel Beats! - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Matt122005]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Wow.. Without anything firm to hold onto we are at the mercy of plot twists that would make Code geass envious.

As I've said in the Speculation thread, the reason it's so ambiguous, is because honestly, is there anyway someone can prove they died? lol

Everyone assumes they died. But there is nothing that they could resolutely put proof to that says they are. They all believe they died because they assume it is so.

But neither Otanashi nor Hinata (as presented in the short stories) believed they were dead initially. It was only after Yuri told them that they believed it.

They could be dead or they could be in a coma. We won't know till the end.

[Crontica]

Yeah.. cause in other series the information to the viewers are almost always given on the 4th dimension, with 99% accuracy, red herrings are disproven later. To just realize we've actually been seeing things from 2nd person the entire time and there are no red truths.

[guuchan]

Shouldn't this discussion head to the speculation thread? I mean, you guys are denying what are presented in the show, denying what the characters believe and determine to believe the opposite. Besides, what are you expecting if it does head that way? A massive Japan miracle that a bunch of youngsters wake up from coma, then a massive Japan tragedy that they die "happily"? Or "better" yet, they wake up and all their problems are gone magically -- the paralyzed won't be paralyzed anymore, the one who lost her voice can suddenly speak again? Or they shall live on with their problems persisting, pretending to be strong since they had their purposes of life fulfilled in this dream world, and hence a massive bittersweeting (actually, no, I won't even call that bittersweet) ending? Or EVEN better yet, they wake up in a different world where everything works out for them (not next life), hence making this show "Angel Tale!"? Oh god please no, I will bash this show so badly if it's the last case. As for the previous possibilities, to me they are just impossible.

[Jarmel]

I'm starting to get serious LOST vibes from the show but I'll hold off on that. Anyway the show suffers from serious pacing problems. The directors and writers are trying to jam way too much into the show. Remember the Naoi problem that was wrapped up offscreen and only lasted a couple of episodes at best? How about wasting a whole episode on the multiple Tenshis which had pretty much zero effect on the plot? Now it seems that they might drop having Otonashi make each member of the SSS disappear and go back to there being a disturbance in the world.
Now we're most likely going to get a bunch of rushed events together because the writers need to explain the world the characters are in while also trying to provide closure to arcs they never really developed.

Now in regards to the particular episode, I was fine with it until the end pretty much. The marriage thing was a little undeveloped but I guess that's a typical tsundere relationship. How many times can you use the girl handicapped in bed story? I'm also somewhat annoyed that it seems that they might be shifting gears again in regards to the story. I was worried that they might go a "sob story of the week route" but it seems that they're probably going to drop that and just have everybody disappear somehow.

[Crontica]

Angel Tale~~ but on a serious note the latter seems to be all three theories fighting for a spot in canon, cause this episode just put the characters point of view into doubt yet again. Did Otonashi really die at the tunnel? I don't see Hinata's death certificate. The timelines between life and death seem inconsistent you sure they ain't in a coma? How did Tenshi create Angel Player, is this the Matrix? Why didn't Otonashi ask Her how this realm was made? SHADOW REAPER!?

[musouka]

Originally Posted by guuchan

Or they shall live on with their problems persisting, pretending to be strong since they had their purposes of life fulfilled in this dream world, and hence a massive bittersweeting (actually, no, I won't even call that bittersweet) ending?

So basically, if life is tough, it isn't worth living? Gee, of course no one could ever love Yui if she's quadriplegic! Iwasawa should just give up on music entirely if she can't sing! They should all stay in fantasy land, avoiding their problems forever!

Man, what a depressing idea that is.

[Key Board]

I'm going to admit I am biased, because I have seen similar themes in other fictions dealing with purgatory.
but within these fictions, lingering in purgatory for too long is never a good thing

Something like a smoke monster / personification of your regrets / sins / element of death will eventually come
for you and destroy you. Keeping that in mind, I always had the sinking feeling that this element would present
itself in Angel Beats eventually, and now we have shadow creatures.

That, and I know Jun Maeda played Persona 4 and may have taken some ideas from it.

[Agito Akiyama]

I almost burst in tears at the end of the episode :'(

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by musouka

So basically, if life is tough, it isn't worth living? Gee, of course no one could ever love Yui if she's quadriplegic! Iwasawa should just give up on music entirely if she can't sing! They should all stay in fantasy land, avoiding their problems forever!

Man, what a depressing idea that is.

How can you know which one is fantasy land and which one is not then?

[Khu]

Oh here we go, whether when we are awake we are dreaming, and when we are dreaming we're actually awake...

[Vorenus]

Well, I have been watching Angel Beats! for 10 episodes now and I can't say I really managed to get into the story.

Jun Maeda is really someone I admire, especially for his work on the Clannad franchise.

The first problem I have with Angel Beats is that it doesn't really know which story it wants to tell...
At the beginning, it is a rather action packed show, with teenagers fighting a supposed agent of god with big guns...
I can't say I was finding this original, but it was well animated and sort of entertaining.

During that phase, the focus was not on the character development, but rather on the action and the SSS vs Tenshi / God plot...

Starting form the end of the previous episode, the show abandons all that, and switches to a completely direction... and the problem now is that I don't really care for the characters, since I can't say I know them rather well, due to the lack of character development of the first episodes...

To take Yui's example, since it is "her" episode, all we had seen so far from her was an energetic pink haired girl, yelling all the time, and frankly a bit annoying...
Sure, she's cute, with her gothic lolita look and all, but she has nothing very original for herself personality-wise... there are dozens and dozens of obnoxious energetic pink haired girls in anime...
If we add to these, the fact that she appeared relatively late in the series, the result is that I simply don't manage to actually care about her or her disappearance.

Even her backstory isn't really that original... felt like a rehash of Otonashi's little sister's story to me...

Clannad, especially After Story, managed to trigger strong emotions in me, and I cared about the characters, even Fuuko, which I also found annoying most of the time.
The difference is that Clannad immediately started doing character development... Sure it was easier due to them being in the real world and in a relatively realistic set up unlike Angel Beats, but the end result is what it is...

The show is also too short to have the luxury to have so many side characters...
They don't have any purpose and only prevent to spend the time a character requires to be properly developed...
I believe the show should rather have focused on a few selected individuals like Yurippe (who wasn't even in the episode), Otonashi, Hinata, and Kanade who are arguably the only ones I remotely care about...

I didn't think I would have to say that someday, but I'm rather disappointed with Maeda here: the writing feels a bit lazy...

[guuchan]

Originally Posted by musouka

So basically, if life is tough, it isn't worth living? Gee, of course no one could ever love Yui if she's quadriplegic! Iwasawa should just give up on music entirely if she can't sing! They should all stay in fantasy land, avoiding their problems forever!

Man, what a depressing idea that is.

Which is the point: I don't think this show is trying to show us how depressing life is. That's why I said that's one of the possibilites that I deem impossible. But wait, MAEDA CAN PULL ANOTHER TOMOYO AFTER. No no no, I don't need another "It's a Wonderful Terrible Life".

[risingstar3110]

While i disagree with Vorenus about Clannad and such because i hate Jun Maeda and his endings.

However i admit Vorenus made a good point about how the Angel Beats anime is too short to go all over the place at one (even if comparing to other Key's work). We needed a lots more character development, and building up tension, especially to those whom existence have faced a permanent end like Iwasara or Yui.

[Marcus H.]

I think Maeda barely pulled this off... for a completely experimental anime series multimedia project.
I hope that there's some way to clear up those plotholes opened up by Angel Beats, 'coz it may be the only saving grace this series needs.

[Vorenus]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

While i disagree with Vorenus about Clannad and such because i hate Jun Maeda and his endings.

To be honest, I didn't like Clannad After Story's "reset" ending, especially in the anime... but 95% of the rest was great so I can't really blame him. He also composed some of the best tracks of the OST, which shows how much of a versatile artist he is...
but since it isn't a Clannad thread, I will stop here as I could go on for a while...

[Haak]

You know, when I first saw Noda being hit by that small pea i thought "How the hell did Otonashi do that?". Then i saw Kanade and was like "Oooooooooh, ofcourse". But then I was like "Wait, I'm guessing Otonashi had to brief her first and tell her not to use live ammunition". XD

[Von Himmel]

So...Hinata x Yui is officially canon now ?

It looks like Hinata has figured out Otonashi's plan unexpectedly sharp wit.

I agree with this. Didn't expect that he will know about the plan to save everyone . . . But I don't think that he knew about the fact that Otonashi is working with Tenshi. If I'm Hinata, I would deduct that Otonashi is trying to make people disappear to help them after watching him trying to grant Yui's dream...but with only that, it is almost impossible to see that Otonashi is working with Tenshi to help his friends...

[Haak]

Well he might have heard from others about somehow getting Yui's guitar back from Kanade. That's already enough to warrant suspicious but i guess no one else heard about it.

Or maybe he just guessed from how the ball impossibly bent it's angle when he tried to save it.

But it's only natural to assume that if he's trying to make others disappear then he has the same goal as Kanade and so must be working with her. (He also knows how much Otonashi loves Kanade)

[edit]

Actually, all Hinata said was that he'll help out Otonashi so he might not actually know about Kanade.

[frodonk]

at this point i wouldn't mind it if they decide to redo angel beats just to get everything right, from the character's background stories to the rushed scenes and the awful transitions. it just feels like it doesn't do the story justice, even if we know that they did borrow from the plot of older KEY works

heck, i was even half expecting yui to say ~uguu during the "dream" sequence with hinata. its not that i'm complaining though, the last time i almost cried while watching anime was during fuuko's arc in clannad.

also, this:

Spoiler for image:

[musouka]

Originally Posted by guuchan

Which is the point: I don't think this show is trying to show us how depressing life is. That's why I said that's one of the possibilites that I deem impossible.

I was being sarcastic.

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

How can you know which one is fantasy land and which one is not then?

Hint: It's the one where people die over and over again.

The place they're in now is static and ultimately meaningless if they never leave it. The SSS is using it as a hiding place, a way to avoid facing what really bothers them. This last episode makes it obvious. Yes, Yui enjoyed doing suplexes and playing soccer, but what she truly wanted was to fall in love and move on with her life, something that's impossible where they are now. Whatever the true situation, purgatory offers a transient happiness at best.