Windows 7, would you switch?

[Epyon9283]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I didn't read the reports carefully enough to answer this, but are they giving away only the Limited Edition that permits a maximum of three applications at a time? This stripped-down edition was designed to keep competitors like Linux off netbooks and for sales to developing countries in hopes of forestalling piracy. In contrast, the leaked builds let you choose any edition at installation.

I can't imagine they'd be giving away "Ultimate" or any of the business-oriented editions that enable you to join an MS "domain." But I could certainly be wrong!

They handed out keys for ultimate edition for the beta. Don't see why they'd change it for the RC. They want people to test everything. Only way to do that is to give them all the features.

[Vexx]

To be pedantic... none of the news announcements specified... but like Epyon9283 says, it be rather odd of them to back out now. I suspect when it comes time to buy the key next year that'd be when you decide what functionality to keep?

... ... ... though I'm not convinced they'll be able to describe accurately which version gives you what specific functionality (remembering the "what is a server?" debate that kept some versions of Windows from sharing their printer to certain other versions, etc).

[Waylonzzz]

I've been using Windows 7 since January. I've encountered no problems besides a few bugs in the taskbar. Every program is compatible, including aegisub and mpc. I've also been updating it to the newest build (currently 7100) and I have no problems with any compatibility issues, driver issues, etc. I think the switch is worth it, since vista's such a pain.

[dragon4dudes]

Not entirely. I may when (if) I get a new computer.
Though I did hear its first release version was so much more reliable than Vista's

[IRJustman]

Originally Posted by dragon4dudes

Not entirely. I may when (if) I get a new computer.
Though I did hear its first release version was so much more reliable than Vista's

I tested one of the first betas, and I can certainly vouch that it feels a lot more solid even on one of my old higher-end Northwood Pentium 4s than Vista does on my laptop, an AMD Athlon 64 x2 (actually a Turion). But that's the only thing that impressed me.

However, since it has the same interface as Vista does, I still dislike it. I do not like eye candy, so I moved to Classic, but I was forced to use Vista's Start Menu, which I'm not entirely fond of. At least Vista still has the Classic I'm used to like I use under XP. Plus I think DWM's/Aero's a resource hog and deserves to be shut off. That's what I did on my laptop since I don't want nearly half my RAM (896M out of 2GB) going to the video subsystem. The "dedicated 256M" is all it gets.

I have more gripes than I have praise for it, almost entirely in the user interface category. If the compositing can be made to use fewer resources, great. But it's not welcome on any system I own. If everything else can be made to use fewer resources, even better.

--Ian.

[fict_ticious]

Have it installed on a MSI Wind U100, and I must say, it runs pretty well (after tweaking, lol). Using build 7100 right now and the taskbar issues with some of the previous builds seem to have disappeared (for now, at least). Wifi doesn't drop-out like with XP.

Right now, doesn't seem to have better uses other than to "wow" people with how "slick" it might look. Haven't tried out anything awesome yet, since all my productivity/fun stuff are on the XP and Linux partitions. Consensus seems to be switch when one needs to purchase a new PC, so I'll stick to that.

[Slinkey]

I am running Windows 7 Ultimate as well on my laptop, I've only got one driver problem and that is the one for my Webcam (creative) inbuilt.
But other than that is runs like a dream.
I would totally switch when they release the final build.

[chikorita157]

Originally Posted by IRJustman

I tested one of the first betas, and I can certainly vouch that it feels a lot more solid even on one of my old higher-end Northwood Pentium 4s than Vista does on my laptop, an AMD Athlon 64 x2 (actually a Turion). But that's the only thing that impressed me.

However, since it has the same interface as Vista does, I still dislike it. I do not like eye candy, so I moved to Classic, but I was forced to use Vista's Start Menu, which I'm not entirely fond of. At least Vista still has the Classic I'm used to like I use under XP. Plus I think DWM's/Aero's a resource hog and deserves to be shut off. That's what I did on my laptop since I don't want nearly half my RAM (896M out of 2GB) going to the video subsystem. The "dedicated 256M" is all it gets.

I have more gripes than I have praise for it, almost entirely in the user interface category. If the compositing can be made to use fewer resources, great. But it's not welcome on any system I own. If everything else can be made to use fewer resources, even better.

--Ian.

I also have gripes on the new Windows Superbar since I'm used to the old taskbar... I can also compare this to Office 2007 Ribbon interface which is very unintuitive and hard to use. I hope this will outweigh the weaknesses in Windows 7 RC1 when I plan to install it on my old Macbook Pro (which I'm going to take some space from Vista Partition to install Windows 7 RC1 on Boot Camp). and see how it runs on a 2.5 year old computer.

I did use Beta 1 before and all my programs work (Google Chrome, Office 2003/2007, Firefox, Opera, Cisco VPN Client) but installing the Symantec Antivirus which was designed for Vista made the system unbootable... unfortunately but it did recognized all my hardware (which is over 4 years old) including the sound card which Vista didn't have a driver for.

Vista isn't a bad operating system (and I have been using it since it first came out in Early 2007), but I did have some problems, which were fixed with the service pack. Most of the Vista's bad rep is from OEM installing junk ware on the computer, manufacturers not having stable drivers upon release of Vista and having it on low end hardware... Most of it is just not true since Service Pack 1 and 2 fixed most of the issues, but then again... the bad perception seems to stick even if its fixed. Not to mention, Windows 7 is built from Vista, despite having a different name but improved...

[IRJustman]

Originally Posted by chikorita157

I also have gripes on the new Windows Superbar since I'm used to the old taskbar... I can also compare this to Office 2007 Ribbon interface which is very unintuitive and hard to use.

I absolutely hated the new superbar when I was putzing around with Windows 7. One reason is that I actually managed to mistake a pinned shortcut for a running program. I prefer a separate launch bar (which I only learned about how to activate AFTER I pulled it from my running stock I had it on). Microsoft apparently REALLY doesn't want people to use the quicklaunch bar anymore, at which point I tell it where to cram its superbar.

I did use Beta 1 before and all my programs work (Google Chrome, Office 2003/2007, Firefox, Opera, Cisco VPN Client) but installing the Symantec Antivirus which was designed for Vista made the system unbootable... unfortunately but it did recognized all my hardware (which is over 4 years old) including the sound card which Vista didn't have a driver for.

The only real hardware trouble I had was with video cards (needs DX9-capable hardware with an available WDDM driver to make it worth using, even for something as simple as video playback) and with my Intel networking hardware. The ProSet utilities did not work with my Intel cards because I need dot1Q VLAN tagging support. This didn't even work on my OptiPlex GX270 box whose ethernet controller, an Intel GigE controller which supports tagging IN HARDWARE. I suspect that's another issue Intel will have to iron out.

Vista isn't a bad operating system (and I have been using it since it first came out in Early 2007), but I did have some problems, which were fixed with the service pack. Most of the Vista's bad rep is from OEM installing junk ware on the computer, manufacturers not having stable drivers upon release of Vista and having it on low end hardware... Most of it is just not true since Service Pack 1 and 2 fixed most of the issues, but then again... the bad perception seems to stick even if its fixed. Not to mention, Windows 7 is built from Vista, despite having a different name but improved...

Even if it's on hardware more suited for it, it still doesn't stop me from disliking Vista in terms of user experience. I absolutely hated Vista when I putzed around with it before I got my first Vista machine, my Acer Extensa 4420 laptop which replaced my Inspiron 9100 when it stopped powering up. Unfortunately, since I need a laptop for the work I do, I had to buy a new one. Unfortunately, I couldn't get something without Vista, so I dealt with it (until I can afford Ultimate or Business; I hate Home releases of Vista).

As for "junkware", the only titles apart from the OS itself Acer had installed on my laptop are the Office 2007 Trial, McAfee's antivirus, and Acer's utility pack. Naturally, the first two were marked as cannon fodder since there's better out there, and for free, too. I use OpenOffice.org and one of the bevy of freeware AVs out there, presently a mix of AVG and the built-in support in Comodo (which I've pared way back so it doesn't brutalize my machine).

With my new laptop, I've gotten Vista to the point where it's actually tolerable, but I still despise Vista with every last fiber of my being. Here's what I did:

• Set Classic theme
• Set Classic color scheme
• Set Classic Start Menu
• COMPLETELY disabled compositing by setting the DWM process to "Disabled" in Services
• Disabled UAC

The last time I tried Windows 7, I couldn't set Classic Start Menu, so I put up with Vista's start menu, which I've found is somewhat tolerable. However, I still prefer Classic. I just hope Microsoft doesn't get rid of Classic entirely (it's almost needed for those with screen readers like WindowEyes or JFW (JAWS for Windows)). If anything, I just didn't like how Microsoft gimped the Classic theme.

--Ian.

[chikorita157]

The main problem is that Vista made too many significant changes compared to XP, which set it up for disaster because the operating system was released after 6 years from the release of Windows XP, which is why most software companies weren't ready for Vista because of poorly written software they had to fix. This is the main reason some older programs that run fine under XP need UAC elevation because the software needing unnecessary administrator privileges instead of running in plain user mode. Also, those UAC prompts get annoying because of the secure desktop which I turned off so it wouldn't be so annoying when it popped up.

Most of the UAC annoyance should have been fixed in Windows 7 since you can select programs to automatically elevate without popping up, but in early builds it created a security flaw by design, which is probably fixed in RC1.

[felix]

chikorita, unless I'm mistaken eXPerience is more or less a expansion on the windows NT, 2k/Me series. So its not that it was better welcomed but rather it wasn't as "new" and "shiny" as vista. In a way XP and 7 are similar: made to fix old mistakes, built on a sturdy tested system, tweaked after observing consumer adoption etc.

Well this is just my way of seeing it.

[chikorita157]

Originally Posted by Cats

chikorita, unless I'm mistaken eXPerience is more or less a expansion on the windows NT, 2k/Me series. So its not that it was better welcomed but rather it wasn't as "new" and "shiny" as vista. In a way XP and 7 are similar: made to fix old mistakes, built on a sturdy tested system, tweaked after observing consumer adoption etc.

Well this is just my way of seeing it.

You are correct that Windows XP isn't a major overhaul since Windows XP was based on Windows 2000 (WinNT 5.1 is XP version number and 5.0 is Windows 2000 family) and not based on Win9x... I remember correctly, people had compatibility problems since most drivers and software was designed for Windows 9x, not Windows 2000. It's not unil SP2 it fixed most of XP's problems.

Most businesses didn't upgrade to XP until recently since there was little difference from 2000 besides the fisher price interface and various improvements.

[IRJustman]

Originally Posted by chikorita157

Most businesses didn't upgrade to XP until recently since there was little difference from 2000 besides the fisher price interface and various improvements.

The interface is deal-withable under XP, but on Windows machines I actually own, I set classic simply because I want a working interface, not a cute one, not a bad-ass-looking one.

Now, Vista and 7 kick it up a notch. Take a "bad-ass-looking" interface, give it more eye candy that was shamelessly ripped from OS X and those Unix boxen running Compiz or whatever compositing package. The result: A huge strain on resources. I just want to USE my computer, not have a ton of eye candy, and I want it to look like something I can use. I want my system to be frugal with resources, not wasteful.

--Ian.

[chikorita157]

Originally Posted by IRJustman

The interface is deal-withable under XP, but on Windows machines I actually own, I set classic simply because I want a working interface, not a cute one, not a bad-ass-looking one.

Now, Vista and 7 kick it up a notch. Take a "bad-ass-looking" interface, give it more eye candy that was shamelessly ripped from OS X and those Unix boxen running Compiz or whatever compositing package. The result: A huge strain on resources. I just want to USE my computer, not have a ton of eye candy, and I want it to look like something I can use. I want my system to be frugal with resources, not wasteful.

--Ian.

The difference between using DWM and not is that the DWM uses the GPU to accelerate the interface, which takes the load off the CPU from drawing the interface and it prevents window tearing which can happen in Windows Classic and Windows XP Luna/Aero Basic... but then again, it's have to do with preference. However, DWM is not going to take as much resources as long you have a good ATI/nVidia graphics card (not a crappy Intel or very low end ATi or nVidia intergrated graphics (excluding Geforce 9400m)) and sufficient amount of RAM (2GB Minimum). If you were to load Aero on a older system, it will take resources away due to slower CPU and processor. Leaving Aero on and not while gaming will not make a big impact on resources.

Mac OS X current Leopard theme is alot cleaner and does not have alot of eye candy compared to Aero and is accelerated even on older machines (Radeon or Geforce) using Quartz Extreme with using little resources. Not sure about Compiz resource usage.

[IRJustman]

Originally Posted by chikorita157

However, DWM is not going to take as much resources as long you have a good ATI/nVidia graphics card (not a crappy Intel or very low end ATi or nVidia intergrated graphics (excluding Geforce 9400m)) and sufficient amount of RAM (2GB Minimum).

Unfortunately, I had little choice but to buy a new laptop when my last one died, and little money to do it with, so I got what I could afford. Though as it turns out, this thing is fully capable of Aero despite its price and chipset. The laptop I described previously is my sole Vista machine, has 2GB of RAM total. Out of that, it carves 256MB for dedicated video memory, then up to 640MB of additional RAM for so-called "HyperMemory" (ATI chipset and AMD processor), likely so one can use Aero. By the time we're done, that's 896MB, nearly HALF my total RAM, carved up JUST by the video subsystem alone. It's little wonder I want to bump this muthuh up to 4GB.

However, back to the original discussion at hand...

Perhaps I should put it this way: If I have to deal with DWM in the future, I want the plainness that Classic has, but I'd like to have the speed of DWM. Is there ANY way of getting this?

Thanks.

--Ian.

[chikorita157]

Originally Posted by IRJustman

Unfortunately, I had little choice but to buy a new laptop when my last one died, and little money to do it with, so I got what I could afford. Though as it turns out, this thing is fully capable of Aero despite its price and chipset. The laptop I described previously is my sole Vista machine, has 2GB of RAM total. Out of that, it carves 256MB for dedicated video memory, then up to 640MB of additional RAM for so-called "HyperMemory" (ATI chipset and AMD processor), likely so one can use Aero. By the time we're done, that's 896MB, nearly HALF my total RAM, carved up JUST by the video subsystem alone. It's little wonder I want to bump this muthuh up to 4GB.

However, back to the original discussion at hand...

Perhaps I should put it this way: If I have to deal with DWM in the future, I want the plainness that Classic has, but I'd like to have the speed of DWM. Is there ANY way of getting this?

Thanks.

--Ian.

http://ukintel.deviantart.com/art/Vi...A-2-6-58624888

This theme emulates the Windows Classic theme with the use of DWM and a custom visual style file, but needs a uxtheme.dll patch inorder to use it.

[zebra]

I'm actually waiting for the release, since I need a new laptop (old one broke and need a portable PC for my studies; currently stole my fathers D: ) and I loathe Vista. Since all the reviews in mags and on the net are rather postive I'll upgrade from XP to 7
I'm pretty happy I don't need to change to Vista after all.

My home PC will stay XP then though... at least until I know if it make sense with my old baby. A lot of HDD but the mainboard etc isn't worth mentioning xD

[chikorita157]

I finally got the key for Windows 7 RC 1 and downloading it on a university connection since my connection is too slow at home... I will test it out in a VM first before using it on a physical computer.

[Vexx]

Update.... apparently you *won't* be able to just buy a key at the end of the evaluation period and continue on. You'll have to back up your settings and data and do a clean install of the commercial release. From their installation instructions:

Spoiler for installation notes:

• If you’ve installed Windows 7 Beta on your PC, you’ll need to back up your data, and do a clean installation of the RC. Then you’ll need to reinstall your programs and restore the files, settings, and other information you want to use for testing.
• While we consider this a stable and high-quality pre-release version of Windows, the RC is not the finished product. It could crash your computer or cause you to lose important files or information.
• You’re pretty much on your own as you test the software. You need to be comfortable setting up and troubleshooting a PC. If you have a problem, you can find a lot of help from other testers online, but we’re not providing formal tech support. Before installing the software please read these two documents for important information: Things to Know and Release Notes.
• IMPORTANT: The RC will expire on June 1, 2010. Starting on March 1, 2010, your PC will begin shutting down every two hours. Windows will notify you two weeks before the bi-hourly shutdowns start. To avoid interruption, you'll need to rebuild your test machine using a valid version of Windows before the software expires. You'll need to rebuild your test PC to replace the OS and reinstall all your programs and data. (To learn more, see Frequently asked questions.)

Things you need to have before you start:

• Dedicated test PC: Please don’t test the RC on your primary home or business PC.
• Data backup: The information on your PC will not be saved during installation. Back up your PC before you start, and frequently during testing. You can back up files to an external hard disk, a DVD or CD, or a network folder. (See How to back up a PC.)
• Recovery disc: A recovery disc restores your computer to its out-of-the-box state. Most computers come with one. If yours didn't, contact your PC maker.
• Antivirus program: Make sure your antivirus program is up-to-date, run it, then disable it before installing Windows 7 RC. When you finish the installation, remember to re-enable the antivirus program.
• Internet connection: Be sure to connect to the Internet after you finish the installation. Being connected helps make sure you get useful security and hardware updates. We recommend you keep your PC set to automatically check for updates through Windows Update.
• Data backup: If you want to back up the PC you’ll use for test, you can use the Windows Easy Transfer software included in Windows 7. Windows Easy Transfer is typically used to transfer files and settings between computers. You can also use Windows Easy Transfer to create a backup from your PC running the Windows 7 Beta to an external drive or flash drive. Then install Windows 7 RC and launch Windows Easy Transfer to re-import your data and settings. To launch Windows Easy Transfer simply open the Windows 7 Start Menu and type "easy" in the search box without quotes. Click on Windows Easy Transfer in the search results under Programs.

I wonder if they'll change that notion as the deadline approaches next year.

Its a 3+ GB download but they use a download manager (ActiveX *or* Java, nice touch for Firefox users). You also have to get a 'windows live id' if you don't have one. :P

They strongly suggest you not use this on your primary system (a.k.a. the one you use to do bills, write papers, produce work). I'm trying to decide whether to use this on my game machine or a spare machine... game machines are just unpleasant to rebuild if something goes toasty, but I'll do a full blown backup on it first since its my only Vista machine anyway.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by MS Announcement

The RC will expire on June 1, 2010. Starting on March 1, 2010, your PC will begin shutting down every two hours. Windows will notify you two weeks before the bi-hourly shutdowns start.

Now that sounds really annoying. Mark my words, everyone will forget this until next March when we'll suddently see a spate of annoyed postings on blogs and Slashdot.