2008-06-09, 19:13 | Link #1441 | |
Inglourious Buster
Join Date: Dec 2007
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I am the one of those who really got into Lelouch's character but at the same time praise Suzaku for his qualities because he without doubt has many of them. The sole thing I don't like about him is that he is siding with the Kingdom to which killing masses of people is nothing but an everyday bread. Whilst I am not that harsh against Kururugi himself, I am one of those to whom the vision of countless murders commited by Britannians on the Japanese just shaped the view on who is evil and who is not. And I find it a bit sad that Suzaku, such a good-natured boy ultimately sided with the people i consider "evil" because of their belief in supremacy and villanous machiavellism. Lelouch has those traits too, IMO, but he is interesting enough as the one to raise against those of his kind. And I love it when the "lesser evil" slaughters the "greater evil". It's just fun :] |
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2008-06-09, 19:23 | Link #1442 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Age: 32
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You know, the thing is that first watching Code Geass, I liked both Lelouch and Suzuku, but after reading the mindless bashing on Suzuku and unjustified justifications on Lelouch, I find myself liking Suzku a little bit better and Lelouch a little bit worse.
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2008-06-09, 19:27 | Link #1443 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Well the level of discourse in this thread has stepped up a little then, but then it seems like you should have better targets than Suzaku. The thing is, if you value stuff like patriotism, and pride then it doesn't seem like Code Geass is a show you should watch at all, as both of the protagonists oppose those in some manner. With Suzaku's submission to Britannia and Lelouch's disdain for the JLF, Code Geass has almost an explicit anti-nationalistic outlook (take a look at this blog post for example). Furthermore, Suzaku's only transgression against 'kinship' was in the name of 'anti-tyranny', and his betrayal of Lelouch was the trade of one close long-term interpersonal relationship for another. I don't quite see where Suzaku breaks 'trust' and in the end he's still working for his people's 'freedom'. Furthermore, you've characterized Suzaku's main principle falsely, as he doesn't believe in 'non-violence' at all. So in the sum of it, it doesn't quite seem like Suzaku really opposes your values. |
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2008-06-09, 20:21 | Link #1444 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
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2008-06-09, 20:25 | Link #1445 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
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No, the people who keep on complaining about an illegal move in a chess game that takes place in a fictional universe where man can command giant robots and use mystical powers to command people, read minds, alter memories, and stop time are the people who needs to get a life.
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2008-06-09, 23:27 | Link #1446 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
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2008-06-09, 23:45 | Link #1447 | ||
what Yagi said
Join Date: Mar 2008
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blog post
That was a very interesting read. I forgot all about the Subway Sarin Nerve gas attack in Tokyo. I was 13 or 14 years old at the time? And I never knew that the date August 10 when Britannia invaded Japan mirrors the date when Japan surrendered to the Allied Forces during World War II. I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with somethings that were said. I agree that real life Britain may have similarities to Japan on the outside if you look at societal contexts. But, if you look at their Empires in the past, it was the Japanese Empire that more resembled CG's Britannian Empire more so than the old British Empire. While the British Empire took on Kipling's "White Man's Burden", the Japanese Empire took on the "Mighty Man's Privilege", much like Emperor Charles' Britannian Empire. Still, Japanese colonial rule is a very touchy issue, and even a fictional anime piece on that subject would draw some very harsh criticisms. Don't mind me, I'm just rambling to myself. Quote:
And I do realize that patriotism and pride have a wide variance of meanings from person to person. I am not the kind of person to start naming my french fries "freedom fries" nor am I the kind of person to wag my tail at the mention of Idiotic Bush's Patriot Act which violates our individual privacy in the name of national security. I just value sovereignty and basic human rights. I just watch Code Geass for pure entertainment reasons. That's why I dislike Suzaku for the actions that he's done, but I'm not losing sleep over it. It is what it is. He's just a character. Quote:
I don't rewatch Code Geass over and over again like I do some other animes, so I'm no expert on it. Suzaku committed patricide because his father represented tyranny? What else can you mean by saying that he transgressed against "kinship" in the name of "anti-tyranny"? I don't remember that, but maybe you can point out the episode for me. I find it very interesting that you are trying to describe my own values to me. Are you by any chance so caught up in defending Suzaku from others that you have become a little overzealous in doing it? I don't know why you are pushing it, but I'm not the type of person to dislike a character because of some random, obscure thing. He just mirrors oppositely of me. That's it. He may reflect you a little more, and that may be the reason why you are more inclined to like his character. I don't know. And, if you want to know why there are so many Suzaku hating posts, and Lulu praising posts, it's just because Lelouch was made more charismatic. It might be wrong, but charismatic people throughout time and history just attract others to them, even if their ideals are very wrong. That's just life. By the way, I don't like Lelouch much either. Still entertaining though. Last edited by tenken627; 2008-06-09 at 23:59. |
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2008-06-09, 23:47 | Link #1448 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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It's like seeing, say, Lelouch go KAMEHAMEHA and shoot fireballs out of his ass and saying it's okay, since... the show has giant robots in it. |
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2008-06-10, 01:42 | Link #1449 | |
Inglourious Buster
Join Date: Dec 2007
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And yeah, I've never expected Japanese shows to be so thorough and realistic about things. Like English texts, for instance. Many texts in newspapers and "important" documents in Gundam 00 were written in bad English, for example. Still, it did not destroy the show to me. But let's not go off topic on Suzaku thread. |
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2008-06-10, 07:49 | Link #1450 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
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2008-06-10, 10:02 | Link #1451 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Amazingly, this crap is annoying.
This is getting off topic, but robots and magic are realistic within the CG universe, and because of that, we accept their existence within it. Arguing that because mechas don't exist in real life but they do in CG, anything can happen within the CG universe and we should all just accept it as 'lol its a cartoon' is stupid. Last edited by Sotobrastos; 2008-06-10 at 10:15. |
2008-06-10, 10:21 | Link #1452 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I dislike Suzaku, just because he is so much like an hypocrite to me. It is really amazing because I usually like all of the MALE chars (you know, I am a little bit... lol) , except Suzaku and the even more hateful Prince (and then King) in the first part of the manwha Princess >*<
In this anime I like all the characters including Charles but Nina + Suzaku. |
2008-06-10, 10:34 | Link #1453 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
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You know what? I think Lloyd's line at the end of episode 8 is rather interesting. Suzaku saved one million people but no one will ever thank him for it. Just like he's not really worse than Zero himself, but people don't really want to see it either.
I guess it's easier to put people in the "bad" and "good" category and leave them there, and seeing how everyone keeps describing Lelouch as a good guy deep down, Suzaku has to be evil. Which is sad since no one being completely right or wrong is what I like the most about this series. |
2008-06-10, 10:42 | Link #1455 |
All Hail Lelouch!
Author
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In His Majesties Service.
Age: 40
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Chances are he would be dead. If Zero hadn't appeared he would've had no Lancelot with Uber Hax abilities and no "live" order to prevent enemy assissted suicide.
You know even though i'm a Lulu fan i don't hate Suzaku as a character even with all the naive crap he spouted in R1. However i can't forgive him for helping to spread oppression and racism across the world(a few of my friends in other forums are Polish and as soon as i mention his name or CG they go into dog of psuedo-Nazi rants). |
2008-06-10, 11:04 | Link #1456 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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2008-06-10, 11:12 | Link #1457 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
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2008-06-10, 11:15 | Link #1458 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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So once he's in Lancelot's piloting seat, Lloyd's desire to actually get some data could have handled the rest. Suzaku would have eventually gotten a chance to shine (i.e. episode 8, which was not instigated by Lelouch and in which Suzaku actually made quite a bit of headway--in fact, had Suzaku succeeded, that incident might even have been a catalyst for him meeting Euphie again), and as he was under Schniezel there still would have been the entire European theatre to make his name known. Suzaku became the 'White Reaper' entirely without the Black Knights, so there's no doubt that Suzaku could still have gone quite far even without the existence of Zero. |
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2008-06-10, 11:45 | Link #1459 |
All Hail Lelouch!
Author
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In His Majesties Service.
Age: 40
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He wouldn't have been selected. Numbers can't be pilots so he wouldn't have gotten near one of them to be tested in the first place(hell he wouldn't even have been given a form to fill in for the test for the test). Llyod needed a pilot so he got a quick check and OMFG you have teh Hax skills you must pilot. Also no Lelouch no trouble in Shinjuku ghetto and no need for it to be deployed in the first place.
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2008-06-10, 11:56 | Link #1460 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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