Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[FullFrontal]

im on episode 10 so far im enjoying it

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by FullFrontal

im on episode 10 so far im enjoying it

LMAO, pretty much everyone still enjoyed it at that point...Call me when you get to the 20's-mid20's- and beyond^^..

But seriously, it's up to you whether or not you will enjoy more, but one of the varying reasons for GSD's infamous status is that it started pretty strong before it devolved into spoiled puppy chow...So you're still on the good part of the ride, for now...Not that I want to influence you, but you just posted in this thread, so...

[SonicX_Zero]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I do see where you're coming from, but I also recall that, when Destiny was airing, there were a large number of viewers who liked his character.

IIRC it had something to do with people disliking Kira's involvement in the show that some people had no one else to turn to but to root for Shinn.

[Aquaman OS]

It seems to me at least that the people who liked Shinn hated Kira in Seed and hate him even more in Destiny. Or they tolerated Kira in Seed but don't like him here. I've yet to see anybody actually claim to love and be fans of both characters.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

It seems to me at least that the people who liked Shinn hated Kira in Seed and hate him even more in Destiny. Or they tolerated Kira in Seed but don't like him here. I've yet to see anybody actually claim to love and be fans of both characters.

I'm a fan of both Kira and Shinn, actually. I haven't completed SEED Destiny but I do know what happens, and yet I still like the shows and the main characters of each show. I just try not to let myself become polarized on one show or the other.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

It seems to me at least that the people who liked Shinn hated Kira in Seed and hate him even more in Destiny. Or they tolerated Kira in Seed but don't like him here. I've yet to see anybody actually claim to love and be fans of both characters.

I am the one. I liked Kira very much in SEED and then learned to like Shinn in Destiny. However, Kira in Destiny indeed did not appeal to me at all. To the degree that I really wanted Shinn to win.

---

What I love about SEED series is that it constantly returns in Gundam discussion. On and on. I think it is the true power of the series as the bad films tend to be forgotten whilst the good ones never fade. And here we are, years after the series finished, still digging it up.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by SonicX_Zero

IIRC it had something to do with people disliking Kira's involvement in the show that some people had no one else to turn to but to root for Shinn.

On the face of things that seems like a very unlikely reason for liking Shinn. On closer analysis, it's even more unlikely since Kira didn't actually do anything in Destiny until episode 13.

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

What I love about SEED series is that it constantly returns in Gundam discussion. On and on. I think it is the true power of the series as the bad films tend to be forgotten whilst the good ones never fade. And here we are, years after the series finished, still digging it up.

The reason why Seed and especially Destiny keep on coming up in conversation is because they are interesting shows to discuss. Not only do they lead to viewers having contrary opinions of the events in the shows, but even the philosophies espoused within are worth examining in detail.

[Atlantis_Lux]

Incredibly enough I just finished to watch Seed Destiny. Yeah, I definitely like Seed more, mainly because I'm not at all satisfied with the way they have handled the new cast. The guys on the Minerva were presented as the main characters, but as the show progressed and Kira&company showed up... I don't know, I felt like they stole all the spotlight, if you know what I mean.
Shinn and Rey are good characters, as well as Talia (my favorite one) and Gilbert, yet they motivations are not clearly explained, in my opinion, nor these characters are developed through the series, as Athrun and Kira were in Seed. So they all remain the same until the very very last episodes when almost everyone changes so abruptly into someone else to be barely recognizable.
And it's not that they didn't have enough episodes to tell us more about Rey or Talia...

On the other hand I like how the viewer is forced to question what is good and what is bad, and why the "heroes" do not seem that much when they want to get rid the world of the guy who, ethically or not, promises to stop the wars.

So... no, in my opinion it isn't a failed show, yet it could have been much better if the balance between the two casts was better managed.


On a side note: but I won't forgive the director for splitting Mirallia from Dearka...

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

It seems to me at least that the people who liked Shinn hated Kira in Seed and hate him even more in Destiny. Or they tolerated Kira in Seed but don't like him here. I've yet to see anybody actually claim to love and be fans of both characters.

You couldn't be more incorrect...I was here for the HEART (if I wasn't myself the heart) of the Kira vs. Shinn celestial hatefest...Any many of us LOVED Kira in SEED, yet HATED him in GSD for what he had become (A static omnipotent robot of his former self)...That was one of the most craziest flaws I had ever witnessed in a show where season 2 makes you hate pretty much all the characters you liked in S1...It's really amazing...

[FullFrontal]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

LMAO, pretty much everyone still enjoyed it at that point...Call me when you get to the 20's-mid20's- and beyond^^..

But seriously, it's up to you whether or not you will enjoy more, but one of the varying reasons for GSD's infamous status is that it started pretty strong before it devolved into spoiled puppy chow...So you're still on the good part of the ride, for now...Not that I want to influence you, but you just posted in this thread, so...

ill let u know, im a gundam fan, so its pretty hard for me to hate anything gundam!

:/

o AND CAN PEOPLE STOP HATING ON SHIN! its a show, u wont like every character! I like diverse characters, shin brings another type of personality we need, we dont need Another KIRA OR Ath in the show!

the only character i didnt like was Rolo from code geas but then im glad he was in the series he was another peice to the puzzle that made the series great!

i dont know i havent completed destiny yet but so far shin has no problems from what im seeing!

[jonli]

Originally Posted by FullFrontal

ill let u know, im a gundam fan, so its pretty hard for me to hate anything gundam!

:/

o AND CAN PEOPLE STOP HATING ON SHIN! its a show, u wont like every character! I like diverse characters, shin brings another type of personality we need, we dont need Another KIRA OR Ath in the show!

the only character i didnt like was Rolo from code geas but then im glad he was in the series he was another peice to the puzzle that made the series great!

i dont know i havent completed destiny yet but so far shin has no problems from what im seeing!

Shinn as a character had no problems, he just got nowhere. He revealed himself as a character with a haunted past and an undying grudge. He's the main character of the show and within 50 episodes he stayed that way till the bitter end. They didn't have any screen time to develop his character, he was forced to become the disney villain of Destiny at the end. How sad is that? At first you were advertised as the main character of the show. You get a great start, great chemistry between you and secondary characters liek Athrun. All of a sudden you get casted aside and forgotten, then you're slapped onto as the final boss that gets beat in literally 10 seconds.

If they actually started off focusing on Athrun, and develop Shinn as a true final boss, Destiny would've been a lot better. Heck they could've had Shinn actually kill Kira if they really wanted it to be epic. But of course Seed was so controlled by its fanbase it was pathetic.

[Double_Edge]

GSD failed for one simple reason. The endiung quotes of the next episode previews weren't as epic as gundam seeds.

"Fly high into the sky, GUNDAAAAAAAAAM!!!"

[Mr Chow]

Is there a way for someone to post the translation of the final screen at the end of GS? I liked the series and the emotion it conveyed - though at times Kira and Athrene cried alot!! But the gundam battles where fantastic, only that I don't understand japanese, and always wanted to know what was the translation at the end of the final scene? Can anyone help....

Cheers

[Neku]

Wow.. I've been gone for a few and another party started.

Reading back, I just realized I entirely ignored wingdarkness's post. (I've always ignored it in the past, until I got bored a few weeks ago).

Ah haa.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

And the members who give me rep-points for scorching your a$$ are the people who consume this stuff, not some debate team professor...

LMAO. People agreeing with you for standing up to 4Tran doesn't necessarily certify the quality of your post is high.

But well, every human being enjoys being backed up and you happen to be the voice. That's the source of your rep. But really, this is entirely my opinion. Don't get touchy ay?

if you're pro-Kiracus it can certainly be seen as a "threat", so rather than get hung on semantics let me refine my bottomline here, which is misinterpreted by Neku's interest in the wordplay over the real point i was trying to convey...

It's not about being pro-Kiracus or pro-Durandal.
While 4Tran has kind of stated that Durandal had resorted to firing Requiem due to desperation, that wasn't a last resort. A last resort, would be probably be defined as when he shot Requiem at his very own troops even.

You think I still have this $hit on my computer?? LMAO....I'm sure with this being your 1st or 2nd rated Gundam series of alltime (Not making this ludicrous $hit up casual readers he really feels this way), I'm sure you have these imaginary Lacus chessgame eps on your mobile phone, I don't...So no timestamps, just credible explanations and perspectives...

Credible explanation?
If we really are debating, with you being one of the "contestants", then for sure as hell, you haven't provided any credible explanation. Credible explanations come from official source, if not the anime itself.

If you've deleted what you define as shit from your computer and thus is stating you have nothing good to contribute to the debate, might I politely ask you, to shut the hell up?

Originally Posted by Triple R

Aquaman OS... Durandal was hurt by Athrun's betrayal (as Durandal saw it).

Triple R.. Athrun was baffled by Durandal's manipulation of him.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I started out disliking him on the basis that the creators were going to try to vindicate his less appealing qualities. On seeing how they intended the whole show, I find Shinn to be a much more sympathetic character.

While I sympathize for Shinn (it was really sad when Stellar died, I felt extremely sorry for him. Though that might just be the effects of Shinkai no Kodoku), all of that was wiped out when he blamed Kira for killing her. It came back again though.. but only when Destiny ended.

Now let's hope if the third movie is really coming out, Shinn would be a more entertaining arrogant cocky, smarter bastard.

Originally Posted by jonli

Shinn as a character had no problems, he just got nowhere. He revealed himself as a character with a haunted past and an undying grudge. He's the main character of the show and within 50 episodes he stayed that way till the bitter end. They didn't have any screen time to develop his character, he was forced to become the disney villain of Destiny at the end. How sad is that? At first you were advertised as the main character of the show. You get a great start, great chemistry between you and secondary characters liek Athrun. All of a sudden you get casted aside and forgotten, then you're slapped onto as the final boss that gets beat in literally 10 seconds.

Lol. This.
While I actually found Shinn to actually have problems as a character (I'm pretty sure that's due to my dislike for him though), I cannot disagree that this guy suffered an underdevelopment. Still, DS (lol) might have pointed out something - the fact that he wasn't liked much, brought to the outcome that the creators had to screw the story and the main character over just to please the fanbase.

Even so, I don't think the story is screwed.
It still portrayed something really important - there is not only black and white in this world. There is grey. People can do bad things to people. The same people can do nice things to people. Not everyone is entirely black, or white, and thus grey.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Neku

Wow.. I've been gone for a few and another party started.

Reading back, I just realized I entirely ignored wingdarkness's post. (I've always ignored it in the past, until I got bored a few weeks ago).

Ah haa.

Guess that makes you a one-man army…Jesus Yamato is that you? Nah...Wanna battle me in a game of wits? Like many who’ve tried, you’ll lose…Let me exibit how ...

LMAO. People agreeing with you for standing up to 4Tran doesn't necessarily certify the quality of your post is high.

But well, every human being enjoys being backed up and you happen to be the voice. That's the source of your rep. But really, this is entirely my opinion. Don't get touchy ay?

LYAO-it-up...Why would I expect a 4tran cheerleader to get me or my cornucopia of perspectives? And like said he might be responsible for maybe1-dot, not all 6 chump…

It's not about being pro-Kiracus or pro-Durandal.
While 4Tran has kind of stated that Durandal had resorted to firing Requiem due to desperation, that wasn't a last resort. A last resort, would be probably be defined as when he shot Requiem at his very own troops even.

He didn’t promote peace thru his “big-stick” as you put it until he snapped IMO from the writing on the wall that a universal army plus 2 aces, in 2 supped up Gundams STILL couldn’t TOUCH (let alone defeat) a rag-tag group of pwners…He f**king lost his marbles in the end and tried to vaporize Orb, Kiracus, and his own men…You are acting as if requiem had been online for the entire series where it would have “made sense” to use it in a totalitarian manner…

He could have easily had Messiah prepped and had it aimed @ Orb and asked them to peacefully surrender before they joined the battle…How the hell is that using Requiem as a “big stick” for peace when they just harbored Djbril? (In-terms of the DP plan) That would have been seen as politically shrewd; to the zealots that would have been too nice for what happened to the Plants…

That’s why I said it was his last resort from a perspective in which I agreed in-terms of Team Lacus’ unbelievable unstoppableness…Honestly you think you’re making a great point here? That’s why it’s semantical in nature… I consider ALL THAT $HIT the last resort, because Dully had ample time to make it an earlier resort, but he didn’t want to compromise his end game (An argument could be made that requiem would have never been used at all if Dully could help it)…But as the last resort within the last resort firing on his men would have eventually killed any hopes of passing his plan in a nominal manner and obviously the fallout would have killed much of his support and popularity (If not all of it)…What are we even arguing again?

Credible explanation? If we really are debating, with you being one of the "contestants", then for sure as hell, you haven't provided any credible explanation. Credible explanations come from official source, if not the anime itself.

If you've deleted what you define as shit from your computer and thus is stating you have nothing good to contribute to the debate, might I politely ask you, to shut the hell up?

Listen you overzealous daywalker, a debate consists of arguments…Arguments can be fleshed out in a myriad of different and varying ways...Some can be taken strictly from timestamps (as requested by you and another Lacus-bot in this thread), some can be taken from overall perspectives or innuendos based on the anime itself (Then people can decide whether or not the argument I make is a good argument—I don’t have to tell you that more times than not THEY DO)…

Secondly, why would I have a $hitty anime on my computer for 4 years when I don’t even have many of the Gundum series I love on my computer either (I got like 5 series, but not all of them, yet I’ve seen them all, INCREDIBLE I KNOW)…Yet in a debate about MSG thru TurnA and beyond I can pull from my memory perspectives and analytical fervor that I’ll never forget…But I know if someone stops you on the street an asks you how the pizza @ “Antonio’s” tastes you have to refer to the half-eaten bacteria-ridden pepperoni you carry around in your shirt-pocket…I can use my memory…

And with this memory I can use my mental Rolodex inwhich my thousands of debates on GSD certainly trump the amount of Lacus wallpapers found in a customized folder on your desktop…But I may be pushing it...

While I actually found Shinn to actually have problems as a character (I'm pretty sure that's due to my dislike for him though), I cannot disagree that this guy suffered an underdevelopment. Still, DS (lol) might have pointed out something - the fact that he wasn't liked much, brought to the outcome that the creators had to screw the story and the main character over just to please the fanbase.

Even so, I don't think the story is screwed.
It still portrayed something really important - there is not only black and white in this world. There is grey. People can do bad things to people. The same people can do nice things to people. Not everyone is entirely black, or white, and thus grey.

Your sensei certainly doesn’t subscribe to the grey-area debate…But let me tell you why the story is screwed…I’ve had this argument a million times and I have no timestamp to validate it, but the search function can probably help you out^^…Ya see since Kira, Lacus, and Athrun, were able to flawlessly defeat every opponent in the end… To make a new story believable you are going to have to either scale back their (Mostly Kiracus’) omnipotent skills or scale back their galactic Swiss-army knives called Gundams...Each proposition holds it’s own challenge as doing this will force many of us to suspend our disbelief to a level beyond what we already had to do in GSD in watching them run rampant…

If 1 person in a Gundam can defeat 35 or whatever redcoat coordinators in like 2 mins (In which the world has established as its ace-level pilots that only lack SEED), what opponent could possibly serve as a BELIEVABLE challenge… If Lacus played this awesome enigmatic chessgame off-screen that totally owned Dullindal in the end, what can’t she do to own some trumped-up new villain without any of the influence of a character such as Gilbert Dullindal…So yeah, the story is screwed…Shinn’s character has been completely placated in a way no character in the history of literature can confidently speak against, so to make him some bada$$-willie now against Kira would be tired and sad….

You have nothing left, but your devotion to pink-pixie dust and a Kiracus love embrace symptomatic of your siggy…If that’s all you want (and I suspect it is to the sound of the scale clamoring against the ground in weight), then you may very well get that…But for all practical purposes the C.E. universe destroyed itself with GSD IMHO…Point’s at the person screaming “What about the Spaaaaaaaaaaaaace Whaaaaaaaaales!!?” My friend even Gundam 00 has taken away your alien gimmick…

So come on Neku…Don’t half-a$$ a game of wits…The troll waiting under this bridge is better dressed, and better groomed than the pedestrians who walk above him…His hair is combed to aesthetic perfection and his breath smells like the scent of fresh new Zaku cockpits…He drinks low-calorie, low-fructose sparkling blood out of a rudimentary champagne goblet... He is unmoved by you…

[Rickketik]

Guess that makes you a one-man army…Jesus Yamato is that you? Nah...Wanna battle me in a game of wits? Like many who’ve tried, you’ll lose…Let me exibit how ...

Damn dude you got some ego problems, you are like the Kanye west of this form..But without the sucky-ness.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

You couldn't be more incorrect...I was here for the HEART (if I wasn't myself the heart) of the Kira vs. Shinn celestial hatefest...Any many of us LOVED Kira in SEED, yet HATED him in GSD for what he had become (A static omnipotent robot of his former self)...That was one of the most craziest flaws I had ever witnessed in a show where season 2 makes you hate pretty much all the characters you liked in S1...It's really amazing...

That's how I felt towards Kira too.

Loved him in Seed.
Grew to actually dislike him a lot in Destiny. He was just too much of a deus ex machina in Destiny.

As for Shinn... I get why many people hated him, but I could understand his perspective at least. In Shinn's mind, Orb's neutrality was what lead to his parents and sister dying. It's a very questionable position for Shinn to take, but a lot of what he does and says makes sense given that core position.

Frankly, I'd probably have a huge resentment towards Cagali and her family myself if I honestly felt that their political maneuvers cost me my parents and one of my two sisters.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Neku

LMAO. People agreeing with you for standing up to 4Tran doesn't necessarily certify the quality of your post is high.

But well, every human being enjoys being backed up and you happen to be the voice. That's the source of your rep. But really, this is entirely my opinion. Don't get touchy ay?

Let's just agree to drop this - there isn't any point in talking reputation, and I'll have to put a quash to it if it gets any further.


Credible explanation?
If we really are debating, with you being one of the "contestants", then for sure as hell, you haven't provided any credible explanation. Credible explanations come from official source, if not the anime itself.

If you've deleted what you define as shit from your computer and thus is stating you have nothing good to contribute to the debate, might I politely ask you, to shut the hell up?

Originally Posted by Neku

Triple R.. Athrun was baffled by Durandal's manipulation of him.

Perhaps it'd be more accurate to say that he thought that Durandal's public persona was completely truthful. After learning that his advice was not only unwanted, but that he had become an impediment to Durandal, Athrun leapt to the assumption that Durandal would have him eliminated. I think that he knew what was going on, but was shocked that it was happening.

Originally Posted by Neku

While I sympathize for Shinn (it was really sad when Stellar died, I felt extremely sorry for him. Though that might just be the effects of Shinkai no Kodoku), all of that was wiped out when he blamed Kira for killing her. It came back again though.. but only when Destiny ended.

Stellar did nothing for me at all (and I'm even a Kuwashima Houko fan); it's more the realization of what Shinn's endpoint was supposed to be that makes me see him in a different light. I still think of him as a pig-headed jerk, but it's not as if I haven't liked pig-headed jerk characters before .

Originally Posted by Neku

Now let's hope if the third movie is really coming out, Shinn would be a more entertaining arrogant cocky, smarter bastard.

I don't know if there would even be a role for Shinn in the movie. He's out of the main political sphere of the other characters, and he isn't really interested in the same kind of things they are, so I'm not sure where he'd fit. I suppose that Shinn could be shoehorned in like characters were in Mai-Otome Zwei, but it was a terrible idea for that OVA, and I can't see it doing any better in a movie.

Originally Posted by Neku

Even so, I don't think the story is screwed.
It still portrayed something really important - there is not only black and white in this world. There is grey. People can do bad things to people. The same people can do nice things to people. Not everyone is entirely black, or white, and thus grey.

I'd say that the themes are even more complex than that; the main ones being:
We are not entirely constrained by our genes/upbringing; we can learn to go beyond them.
Conflict and wars cannot simply be handwaved away. What we need to do is to do our best to rebuild everytime they tear down the foundations of the world.
Wanting to do the right thing is important, but not enough. It's more important to actually do the right thing.
Put all of those themes together, and the messages in Destiny are quite nuanced and profound. They are also not the kind of themes that are found in most anime.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

<SNIP>

I suggest that if you want to have your arguments taken seriously, that you actually back them up rather than beating around the bush. If you feel up to it, let me know, and I'll dissect them for you - but as they stand, there isn't a whole lot of substance in your post.

[monster]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Ya see since Kira, Lacus, and Athrun, were able to flawlessly defeat every opponent in the end…

Not quite, Kira's victory over Rey was circumstantial. It's unlikely he'll be able to get such openings with every future enemies. Also, both CE series have shown that neither Kira nor anybody else is unbeatable. Furthermore, beating someone once does not mean you'll beat them the next time, and that goes the same for everyone, including Kira.

To make a new story believable you are going to have to either scale back their (Mostly Kiracus’) omnipotent skills or scale back their galactic Swiss-army knives called Gundams...Each proposition holds it’s own challenge as doing this will force many of us to suspend our disbelief to a level beyond what we already had to do in GSD in watching them run rampant…

As this is a work of fiction, and the CE universe is big enough, new characters of varying skills and/or technology can always be introduced.

If 1 person in a Gundam can defeat 35 or whatever redcoat coordinators in like 2 mins (In which the world has established as its ace-level pilots that only lack SEED), what opponent could possibly serve as a BELIEVABLE challenge…

Anybody who can produce similar result given similar technological superiority over their enemies. And as I said before, such person can always be introduced.

If Lacus played this awesome enigmatic chessgame off-screen that totally owned Dullindal in the end, what can’t she do to own some trumped-up new villain without any of the influence of a character such as Gilbert Dullindal…So yeah, the story is screwed…

For starter, someone who isn't as dependent on Lacus's actions and/or whereabouts would probably fare better.

Shinn’s character has been completely placated in a way no character in the history of literature can confidently speak against, so to make him some bada$$-willie now against Kira would be tired and sad….

As evidenced by Shinn still wearing a ZAFT uniform in the end, his purpose for joining was not placated. That's still a big part of Shinn's character.

But for all practical purposes the C.E. universe destroyed itself with GSD IMHO…

Of course, then again there are other opinions as well.

Point’s at the person screaming “What about the Spaaaaaaaaaaaaace Whaaaaaaaaales!!?” My friend even Gundam 00 has taken away your alien gimmick…

And 00 is free to take that or any other gimmick it wants without affecting SEED's future. After all, they're already sharing the mecha gimmick, kid affected by war gimmick, clone gimmick, just to name a few.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Listen you overzealous daywalker, a debate consists of arguments…Arguments can be fleshed out in a myriad of different and varying ways...Some can be taken strictly from timestamps (as requested by you and another Lacus-bot in this thread), some can be taken from overall perspectives or innuendos based on the anime itself (Then people can decide whether or not the argument I make is a good argument—I don’t have to tell you that more times than not THEY DO)…

Secondly, why would I have a $hitty anime on my computer for 4 years when I don’t even have many of the Gundum series I love on my computer either (I got like 5 series, but not all of them, yet I’ve seen them all, INCREDIBLE I KNOW)…Yet in a debate about MSG thru TurnA and beyond I can pull from my memory perspectives and analytical fervor that I’ll never forget…But I know if someone stops you on the street an asks you how the pizza @ “Antonio’s” tastes you have to refer to the half-eaten bacteria-ridden pepperoni you carry around in your shirt-pocket…I can use my memory…

And with this memory I can use my mental Rolodex inwhich my thousands of debates on GSD certainly trump the amount of Lacus wallpapers found in a customized folder on your desktop…But I may be pushing it...

Why would you have a shitty anime in your com?

So you can argue about it. Duh...

Unless if you are telling all of us that you have a photographic memory of what exactly happened in Destiny for all 50 episodes, INCLUDING clip shows and such..

In that case, what happened on 3:42 at the 25th episode of the series?

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Your sensei certainly doesn’t subscribe to the grey-area debate…But let me tell you why the story is screwed…I’ve had this argument a million times and I have no timestamp to validate it, but the search function can probably help you out^^…Ya see since Kira, Lacus, and Athrun, were able to flawlessly defeat every opponent in the end… To make a new story believable you are going to have to either scale back their (Mostly Kiracus’) omnipotent skills or scale back their galactic Swiss-army knives called Gundams...Each proposition holds it’s own challenge as doing this will force many of us to suspend our disbelief to a level beyond what we already had to do in GSD in watching them run rampant…

If 1 person in a Gundam can defeat 35 or whatever redcoat coordinators in like 2 mins (In which the world has established as its ace-level pilots that only lack SEED), what opponent could possibly serve as a BELIEVABLE challenge… If Lacus played this awesome enigmatic chessgame off-screen that totally owned Dullindal in the end, what can’t she do to own some trumped-up new villain without any of the influence of a character such as Gilbert Dullindal…So yeah, the story is screwed…Shinn’s character has been completely placated in a way no character in the history of literature can confidently speak against, so to make him some bada$$-willie now against Kira would be tired and sad….

25 GOUFs and 2 Nazca -class battleships in 3 minutes.

And redcoats are really not that special, it just means that they graduated top of their class at the ZAFT academy, not a real indication of one's skills. Simulations does not translate to real battlefield conditions. And if they are in space, then the redcoats prolly did not have a lot of battle experience, cause most of the ZAFT forces who actually USED their MS in on Earth.

And you obviously did not watch Destiny properly...or did not delve deeper into the surface.

As 4Tran and Neku have stated, Destiny had a lot of deep themes, and most of the problem in the CE world is not gone with Durandal's death.

- The Coordinator - Natural relationship is still not stable.
- OMNI is not completely gone, in fact, they are still very much alive.
- What is ORB's position? Sure, one might argue that Cagalli and Lacus and bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla...but Cagalli screwed up in GSD, who's to say she won't do it again..?
- Loyalists perhaps? They exist in GSD, could appear again in the new Gundam Seed movie.
- Extreme, but Morosawa could kill off Lacus and Kira. Hell, in all chances, this is a long shot, but who knows that cancer treatment gave her an epiphanical revelation and she rewrote the script...

And one of my favourite quotes, I forgot where I got it from

"If you destroy war with war itself..and leave nothing to fill in the gap, then only war can refill the gap"

That is certainly the case in Destiny. Team Lacus achieved a flawless victory, yeah, and she has control of ZAFT now. But who's to say she will do anything to fix the current situation? For all we know, she could be a shitty politician and a retarded leader. Unlikely, but who knows?