Madoka Magica - Movie 3 Spoilers and Speculations

[Triple_R]

Well, a couple points on Homura...

1) Homura's never really had a love rival for Madoka. I mean, we've never had Madoka show totally unambiguous romantic interest in another person.

2) Madoka's life has rarely been directly threatened.


What really makes a yandere look like a yandere is her willingness to severely maim or kill people that they consider a threat to the person they love, and/or love rivals for the person they love. Given the lack of love rivals, or many people directly threatening Madoka's life, Homura hasn't really had much opportunity/reason to act like a yandere. However, consider the following...

1. Homura: You're blaming yourself too much for this, Kaname Madoka.

Madoka: Huh?

Homura: There's no one who can criticize you for your choices. If there was, I'd never forgive them. (Episode 4)


2. Madoka: I'll remember. I won't forget Mami-san. I never will!

Homura: I see. Tomoe Mami's lucky to have someone who thinks that. It's enough to make me jealous. (Episode 4)


3. Homura was, of course, willing to kill Kyubey to protect Madoka. It's debatable whether or not she was willing to kill Sayaka to do so.

[silvercover]

well that was also something I considered, forgot to mention it.
indeed, I can already picture homura being overly negative on the person madoka would like, especially if its one of the other girls. she probably wont kill them(or at least consider it at first), but I can see her making life miserable or being unfriendly towards them(when madoka is not around of course).

its also rather worth noting that, for some yanderes, they're hostility often ends up being quite justified. just take a look at yuno, and you'll see that if it werent for her distrust and suspicion, yukiteru would have gotten killed by those guys who he felt a sense of trust.

also for the last point, its not exactly quite a good indicator for a yandere trait as kyuubey's not really a friend or ally anyway... as for sayaka, well, yeah debatable if it was a bluff or if she was serious.

[OminousFlare]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

3. Homura was, of course, willing to kill Kyubey to protect Madoka. It's debatable whether or not she was willing to kill Sayaka to do so.

Not to mention that she was willing to reset the universe for the sake of one girl. Despite my problems with Homura, I used to think of her as someone reasonable enough not to act on her feelings, but rather, a stoic character acting on logic. From what I read in this discussion about her yandere side, however, I'm beginning to feel otherwise.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by silvercover

well that was also something I considered, forgot to mention it.
indeed, I can already picture homura being overly negative on the person madoka would like, especially if its one of the other girls. she probably wont kill them(or at least consider it at first), but I can see her making life miserable or being unfriendly towards them(when madoka is not around of course).

Probably, yeah. She'd either do that, or become completely withdrawn from Madoka, aside from watching over her Batman-style.

its also rather worth noting that, for some yanderes, they're hostility often ends up being quite justified.

Agreed. Your Mirai Nikki example is a good one.

Originally Posted by OminousFlare

Not to mention that she was willing to reset the universe for the sake of one girl. Despite my problems with Homura, I used to think of her as someone reasonable enough not to act on her feelings, but rather, a stoic character acting on logic. From what I read in this discussion about her yandere side, however, I'm beginning to feel otherwise.

I think Homura is a pretty emotional person at heart, but to cope with the horrific truths revealed to her through the first 2 timelines, she sort of hardened her heart and became very logical/pragmatic (to be fair, she handled this better than a fully aware Mami did).

But keeping this up for as long as Homura did can't be easy, and maybe her emotions were starting to get the best of her in Rebellion.

[maximilianjenus]

i find it hard to consider homura a yandere as she never hurts madoka.

[silvercover]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

(to be fair, she handled this better than a fully aware Mami did).

to be fair, id also like to point out that mami has gone through lots of shit already as the different story manga showed.
id say homura probably didnt quite let the facts sink in, or she didnt take it quite so deeply like mami did. mami was also likely quite near to despair before she found madoka and sayaka.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by silvercover

to be fair, id also like to point out that mami has gone through lots of shit already as the different story manga showed.
id say homura probably didnt quite let the facts sink in, or she didnt take it quite so deeply like mami did. mami was also likely quite near to despair before she found madoka and sayaka.

Well, now that I think about it, Mami probably had a lot of added guilt on her conscience. That may have contributed to her Timeline 3 actions.

I mean, in at least most timelines, she's probably a key part of the reason why Madoka and Sayaka become Puella Magi in the first place. So in Timeline 3, Mami probably feels that her actions ultimately contributed to Sayaka becoming a witch/dying, and also to Madoka being stuck in this nightmare scenario.

At least Homura never dragged anybody into this world "behind her", so that probably gives her less to feel guilty about than what Mami had.

[AuraTwilight]

Strictly speaking, Homura would probably count as a yandere by mere virtue of the fact that she values Madoka's well-being and happiness over the well-being of the entire universe. To the point that one can argue that "A witch destroying the planet in 10 days" didn't concern her so much "MADOKA'S Witch exists."

[silvercover]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

i find it hard to consider homura a yandere as she never hurts madoka.

"homura stop, you're going to break me apart!"

anyway that's a misconception, or you people have just seen mirai nikki.
if you've even seen most of the others, the yandere actually barely hurts the MC directly. if anything, the MC only gets hurt cause he keeps going against the yandere's judgement.

just to name some, like yuka from 11eyes, that girl from school days, noa from oniichan control, several from durarara, etc. and you'll see that they havent really done any harm to their loved ones... its only the people around their loved ones who they notice are a problem, which leads to (some)MC to get hurt cause he's a nice guy/friends with them and stuff.

[Triple_R]

Yeah, let's not forget that Homura continued on with her actions even while Madokami was quite clearly protesting against it, with real panic in her voice. Very yandere-esque if you ask me.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Let's see what Kanye West has to say...






Yuno is the quintessential yandere, in that she captures the essence of that character type and what people tend to think of it. But that includes the good and the bad. I admittedly never finished Mirai Nikki, but I did watch a lot of it, and Yuno never struck me as having much depth. Usually entertaining to watch, but she's not somebody that could spur character discussion for me anywhere near as much as Homura can.

Homura could have all the strengths of the yandere character type, but few (if any) of its weaknesses. It's Homura that could be the ideal yandere - Someone with the distinctive traits of the yandere, but also well-written with a lot of complexity and depth.

Yuno Gasai torturing Kayne West. Mirai Nikki was a shitty anime but dang that would be awesome to include.

Sadly, I'm not too happy with this being associated with Ebilmura. I mean seriously, why does having feelings for another girl generate a 265% icrease of yandere tendencies anyways? I'm not fond of this trope. At least Kyoko's having fun with Sexy Sayaka (my nickname for movie Sayaka-- they decided to really give her some hips, lol. ) but it turns out she's kind of a lie.

I'll post my thoughts in detail about the movie soon enough. I thought it was pretty good; the atmosphere was nicely done-- a calm one which is ironic given the events and the visuals were quite lively, but dang, I can hardly take Gendomura seriously. I mean she just needs some sunglasses and some gloves. Also sexy evil outfits are fine, but they really don't flatter her figure. Unless the costume designer was evil too, I guess. Maybe loaning from Precia Testarossa's wardrobe wasn't that great.



Or I'm totally expecting her to use her pinky to demand 1 million dollars from the Puella Magi. That would be funny too.

It was entertaining but I didn't gather that much meaningful things out of it as I felt towards the series. Perhaps it's a bit old hat. But hey a real fight and Shaft animating stuff for once. That's something.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Or I'm totally expecting her to use her pinky to demand 1 million dollars from the Puella Magi. That would be funny too.

Aahhhh... so that's where half of the moon went. She's using it for a moon-base!

Here's hoping Homura has an army of sharks with frickin' laser-beams on their head. That would be cool.


Now, I have to go back and watch Rebellion because I somehow didn't notice Sayaka getting better hips.

[Archon_Wing]

Hmm, not exactly sure where it was (transform sequence) maybe? But there's this notable shot that flashes of her combat stance from behind at a low angle, and unbecoming of Shaft shows her having quite a nice figure. Though her skirt is a bit too long for me to extrapolate that she has a nice ass too, but given all the theories about the series, why not?

The anime had something similar though it was going almost into silly panty shot territory so the movie version was much more noticeable and I would consider that a much better portrayal of attractiveness instead of the creepy kind of stuff that is prevalent in anime and especially anything involving Shinbo. Much better than increasing Mami's bust size.

/pervwing

[silvercover]

hmm? perhaps you meant during the OP while the girls are dancing around homura?

[Triple_R]

I decided to rewatch the entire Rebellion movie earlier today.

It is truly a fascinating and highly entertaining film.

However... On re-watch, I'm more sympathetic to the criticisms that AuraTwilight and some others have made. Some things just don't seem to fit that well when I pay closer attention to them. And some things stand out a bit more when my mind is sort of freed from having to carefully follow the plot in general (as that took up a lot of my mental attention on initial watch).

The following bit of dialogue is just a small example of this...

"I've waited so long for this." Homura says, before firmly taking hold of Madokami's wrists.

"Homura?" Madoka asks.

"I've finally caught you." Homura says.


In-context, I find this a bit odd. It seems to suggest to me that eventually overwhelming Madokami was Homura's plan all along, even before she was sucked into her own Soul Gem world.

The twists and turns in Homura's characterization are, as a whole, mesmerizing.

It's all very intriguing, but then, it's almost too mysterious. It's hard to pick sense out of. And that's before we even get to just how Homura was able to do this (a bone of contention that's been there since the movie first aired, of course).

I hate to say this, but I wonder if Gen hasn't broken his world. It all seems a bit too surreal on re-watch.


Homura-as-yandere comes across more strongly to me on rewatch. I'm more inclined to take "Akuma Homura" at her word. I think she's deeply motivated by an all-consuming love of Madoka. A love that has taken on a possessive quality.

[OminousFlare]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Homura-as-yandere comes across more strongly to me on rewatch. I'm more inclined to take "Akuma Homura" at her word. I think she's deeply motivated by an all-consuming love of Madoka. A love that has taken on a possessive quality.

I think, deep inside, Homura truly knows that she's this flawed and insecure little girl, and feels all the more suicidal and guilty for it. I mean, if she's really that selfish and psychopathic, she wouldn't have spared the lives of Sayaka/Kyoko/Hitomi/whoever (and even tried to improve those lives). She would've just went, "F*** it! Madoka's ALL MINE!" Or something in that context.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

"I've waited so long for this." Homura says, before firmly taking hold of Madokami's wrists. [...]"I've finally caught you." Homura says.

It's just a mistranslation. Homura says "I waited for this moment" with absolutely not allusion to how long she had been waiting. The other line is a mistranslation too. She just says "I caught you."

I think whoever translated this probably wanted to give the lines more flare, and ended up screwing up the whole scene.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I hate to say this, but I wonder if Gen hasn't broken his world. It all seems a bit too surreal on re-watch.

I've seen the movie many times, with different translations. None is perfect, not even the official one. They all have different problems here and there. Some of the inconsistencies you're talking about are probably related to this issue.

[Ghostalker]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's just a mistranslation. Homura says "I waited for this moment" with absolutely not allusion to how long she had been waiting. The other line is a mistranslation too. She just says "I caught you."

I think whoever translated this probably wanted to give the lines more flare, and ended up screwing up the whole scene.



I've seen the movie many times, with different translations. None is perfect, not even the official one. They all have different problems here and there. Most of the inconsistencies you're talking about are probably related to this issue.

I just register after reading this. You mean what actually Homura said is exactly the OST on the background that time "I was waiting for this moment"

I don't know any Japanese, but depending on how it's translated all of the sudden the meaning is different.

If that is the case, then I say the translator did a very poor job on this (the official subs), because really it's a very very important scene.

[Kazu-kun]

I don't have the movie with me right now, but if I remember correctly, she says "kono toki wo, matteta."

"Kono" means "this," "toki" means "time" and "matteta" is a compound of the gerund "matte" + the past tense of "iru." So yeah, the literal translation is "I was waiting for this moment." Overall, I think the translation should be as literal as possible for this movie because every word carries a very precise meaning and a liberal translation could result in misunderstandings.

There are works for which a liberal translation fits just fine. This isn't one of them.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by OminousFlare

I think, deep inside, Homura truly knows that she's this flawed and insecure little girl, and feels all the more suicidal and guilty for it. I mean, if she's really that selfish and psychopathic, she wouldn't have spared the lives of Sayaka/Kyoko/Hitomi/whoever (and even tried to improve those lives). She would've just went, "F*** it! Madoka's ALL MINE!" Or something in that context.

"And because I could never bear to do something that would make someone as strong as you cry like this." said Madoka, while holding Homura in her arms.

"Then for you, that's something that hurts you so much you couldn't bear it?" asked Homura, with the look of shocked epiphany in her eyes.

"That's right. You, Sayaka, Mami, Kyouko, my dad and mom and Tatsuya, and even Hitomi and everyone in our class... I would never want to go somewhere I could never see anyone again."

-----

This was the famous Flower Fields scene. Madoka's words to Homura here were likely pivotal in Homura's decisions later in the film (well, these words and the revealed Incubator threat). Now, perhaps there's mistranslations here as well, but I'm going to assume that at least the list of people is accurate. Homura is a very straightforward thinker, and having a clear list of "people important to Madoka" is something I could see her grabbing hold of.

If forced to choose between Madoka and someone on Madoka's list, Homura will obviously favor Madoka. However, if such a choice is not necessary, Homura will aim to preserve the person on Madoka's list, for Madoka's sake.

Homura's not a dumb yandere. She wants the person she loves to be happy. It's just that the highest priority for her is having Madoka under her control, because she believes that's the only way Madoka can be safe and happy given Madoka's self-sacrificing tendencies.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's just a mistranslation. Homura says "I waited for this moment" with absolutely not allusion to how long she had been waiting. The other line is a mistranslation too. She just says "I caught you."

I think whoever translated this probably wanted to give the lines more flare, and ended up screwing up the whole scene.

Well, that certainly helps. Thanks for the info.