Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 17 Discussion Thread

[Skaddix]

I mean I guess it wasnt totally worthless it made a good enough distraction so they could reach the Isarabi. But the main problem still stands worthless weapons, they were bad enough with no training but heck you give Orga decent odds to go Lelouch with it but the fact they have no weapons make its worse.

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by monster

I can understand if his business has ties to two powerful nations, but we're talking about some colonial union workers. I doubt that's the kind of conflict that would be good for business. I initially thought that he wanted Kudelia to die publicly as a martyr to enflame the independence movement. So he might've used the workers and Kudelia as sacrificial pawns to make others rise in revolt. But then I recall that nobody really knew who Kudelia was, so that seems unlikely.

As for a desire for status quo, if that was his goal, he could've just not sponsored Kudelia. She would've remained powerless.

Assuming his goal was selling weapons, it would be to the major powers and Gjallorhorn that is swooping in to crush revolting colonies. In times of unrest, it's pretty normal for powers to militarized further. But if you consider how long ago Fumitan was inserted as a spy, sales seems like a petty thing. It's more likely for it be a political maneuver for him to possible position his agenda via the event of a popular uprising. Then again, Fumitan is probably just there for writers to build up Kudelia as a character and we might be just overthinking it.

As for status quo, it's a shot in the dark from me. It's a possibility that she was setup up as the symbolic fall guy for Gjallorhorn to crush and maintain their dominance as the sole peacekeeping force. This way, they can control and suppress the people by manufacturing their own crisis to solve. Though it is also possible for her to be the martyr for a major revolutionary war with all the setup for her to be accompanied by a group of "young knights".

At this point, too little is being revealed about Nobliss' intention with the exception that Teiwaz involvement is complicating his grand plan.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

I mean I guess it wasnt totally worthless it made a good enough distraction so they could reach the Isarabi. But the main problem still stands worthless weapons, they were bad enough with no training but heck you give Orga decent odds to go Lelouch with it but the fact they have no weapons make its worse.

It's because they have no weapons, that Orga and co has to save their sorry asses. That's what is this battle about.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

Assuming his goal was selling weapons, it would be to the major powers and Gjallorhorn that is swooping in to crush revolting colonies. In times of unrest, it's pretty normal for powers to militarized further. But if you consider how long ago Fumitan was inserted as a spy, sales seems like a petty thing. It's more likely for it be a political maneuver for him to possible position his agenda via the event of a popular uprising. Then again, Fumitan is probably just there for writers to build up Kudelia as a character and we might be just overthinking it.

The problem is that this particular revolting colonies do not make proper enemies. There wouldn't be much need for new weapons to quell any rebellion.

In fact, prior to Gordon changing his mind about Kudelia, it seems that this makeshift rebellion was about over and done with as Gjallarhorn proves its might. Gjallarhorn actually has a hand in starting (and supposedly stopping) the rebellion, so it doesn't make sense for them to create their own dependence for new weapons when they're already in charge.

But yes, it all comes down to having too little information. Like I said earlier, the show has been focusing solely on Tekkadan up until recently.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Before the gang reached Dort there was a brief scene with Gordon where he announced Kudelia's death. I can't rewatch it right now but I seem to remember he hoped for her death to trigger a big reaction from the oppressed masses. We just don't know how big a reaction he wanted or for what end but he seems happy enough if Kudelia can become more significant.

[monster]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Before the gang reached Dort there was a brief scene with Gordon where he announced Kudelia's death. I can't rewatch it right now but I seem to remember he hoped for her death to trigger a big reaction from the oppressed masses. We just don't know how big a reaction he wanted or for what end but he seems happy enough if Kudelia can become more significant.

I don't see how as no one knew who she was. He could've just gotten some random girl to play the anonymous victim for the camera and it would probably have gotten the same emotional response from the "oppressed masses."

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by monster

I don't see how as no one knew who she was. He could've just gotten some random girl to play the anonymous victim for the camera and it would probably have gotten the same emotional response from the "oppressed masses."

Well, remember, it's on Mars that he wants change mostly, and most of them know what she looks like. And even then, it's her name that's important. Her name is what everyone from Earth to Jupiter (except for those clueless reporters and Earth civilians) know of. Nobliss controls media too. All he would have to do is spread word of Kudelia and that she was killed in defense of the workers and Mars would be up in arms and probably a few other places too.

Also, it had to be the real one, because he's outed if the real one actually shows up and begins to confuse the overall message. That would make people divided and that's not what anyone wants.

[Skaddix]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

It's because they have no weapons, that Orga and co has to save their sorry asses. That's what is this battle about.

Eh even if they did have weapons they still be getting their buttkicked but they at least be useful with proper leadership

[Tenzen12]

And who will be leading them? I wonder if they have someone among them who can provide that leadership you speaking about.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Well, remember, it's on Mars that he wants change mostly, and most of them know what she looks like. And even then, it's her name that's important. Her name is what everyone from Earth to Jupiter (except for those clueless reporters and Earth civilians) know of. Nobliss controls media too. All he would have to do is spread word of Kudelia and that she was killed in defense of the workers and Mars would be up in arms and probably a few other places too.

Unfortunately, her name wasn't even advertised. I suppose you have a point about Mars, although Kudelia was put in a bad light by being associated with the "aggressors" of that confrontation. Some people on Mars might not even be as understanding as to why someone who is supposed to be their representative is suddenly involved in other people's conflict.

Also, it had to be the real one, because he's outed if the real one actually shows up and begins to confuse the overall message. That would make people divided and that's not what anyone wants.

I didn't mean that somebody could pose as Kudelia. I meant given that Kudelia ended up being an anonymous figure in that news segment (prior to her revealing herself), any other person could've been used in the same way to give a face for the victims.

[Skaddix]

Well sure but Gordon knows what she looks like and probably doesn't want lose ends not to mention higher ups in Gjhallahorn also know it so Gordon doesnt really benefit from killing a fake.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by monster

Unfortunately, her name wasn't even advertised. I suppose you have a point about Mars, although Kudelia was put in a bad light by being associated with the "aggressors" of that confrontation. Some people on Mars might not even be as understanding as to why someone who is supposed to be their representative is suddenly involved in other people's conflict. I didn't mean that somebody could pose as Kudelia. I meant given that Kudelia ended up being an anonymous figure in that news segment (prior to her revealing herself), any other person could've been used in the same way to give a face for the victims.

Quite sure that AFTER the incident, both the news and footage of Kudelia's death will reach Mars. Which will likely instigate reactions and conflicts.

He was likely looking to profit from knowing beforehand the conflict in Mars was about to start, as you know, merchants with prior knowledge of warfare can gain massive profit over their competition.

He just didn't realize how big of a catalyst Kudelia could become, and now he's shifting his bets into her becoming a central figure in a even larger conflict than he initially expected.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Well sure but Gordon knows what she looks like and probably doesn't want lose ends not to mention higher ups in Gjhallahorn also know it so Gordon doesnt really benefit from killing a fake.

Again, I said nothing about anyone being a fake Kudelia and no one is killing any fake.

Originally Posted by aohige

Quite sure that AFTER the incident, both the news and footage of Kudelia's death will reach Mars. Which will likely instigate reactions and conflicts.

I would agree with you before, but not after seeing how bad information passes between the Earth sphere and the outer sphere. In fact, the plan was so badly done that had there not been that one guy who recognized Kudelia and/or had that news crew not caught on to her potential as a person of interest, Kudelia wouldn't even be in the spotlight in the first place.

He was likely looking to profit from knowing beforehand the conflict in Mars was about to start, as you know, merchants with prior knowledge of warfare can gain massive profit over their competition.

The question then is what there could be in Mars that would make Gordon think they could be any threat to Earth. Is Mars even wealthy enough to be a secondary customer for Gordon?

[aohige]

Originally Posted by monster

Again, I said nothing about anyone being a fake Kudelia and no one is killing any fake. I would agree with you before, but not after seeing how bad information passes between the Earth sphere and the outer sphere. In fact, the plan was so badly done that had there not been that one guy who recognized Kudelia and/or had that news crew not caught on to her potential as a person of interest, Kudelia wouldn't even be in the spotlight in the first place. The question then is what there could be in Mars that would make Gordon think they could be any threat to Earth. Is Mars even wealthy enough to be a secondary customer for Gordon?

The fact that the news crew didn't recognize Kudelia is irrelevant.
The footage is there, and survivors of the laborers exist. Gordon himself has the means to spread the information to Mars.
You seem to be assuming that he just sets up the catalyst and let everything happen naturally, which is naive. He is a manipulative businessman, why do you think he would stop at phase 0?

I mean, in this very episode we witness he has control over media.
It would be absolutely certain that he would spread propaganda and incitement through out the world using his connections for the sake of profit.

[dragon1412]

I'm agree with Hige on this one since the most important part is

Originally Posted by aohige

The footage is there, and survivors of the laborers exist. Gordon himself has the means to spread the information to Mars.

I mean, in this very episode we witness he has control over media.

As long as you can use the Media and having actual footage, creating news or fanning people is easy, better yet, the footage is actually real and there are survivors to testify for the footage.

You need to take into account that who is the target that the footage is aiming at and what effect does he wish to bring, the fact that people in a particular colony doesn't about Kudelia is irrelevant as long as the people in Mars or Earth is aware of Kudelia

[monster]

Originally Posted by aohige

The fact that the news crew didn't recognize Kudelia is irrelevant.
The footage is there, and survivors of the laborers exist. Gordon himself has the means to spread the information to Mars.
You seem to be assuming that he just sets up the catalyst and let everything happen naturally, which is naive. He is a manipulative businessman, why do you think he would stop at phase 0?

I mean, in this very episode we witness he has control over media.
It would be absolutely certain that he would spread propaganda and incitement through out the world using his connections for the sake of profit.

You're missing the point that the footage wouldn't have even been there had there been nobody that recognized Kudelia. That's sloppy planning that leaves too much to chance. Since Gordon had the means to spread information, then the least he could've done was spread information on the Earth sphere and make Kudelia even more famous and recognizable to the people. He was really lucky that one person had actually seen her.

[KaiDamien]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

I love how this far in, IBO still maintains that sense of WEIGHT that the mobile suit battles have, that you really feel that they're several-ton heavy machines clashing against each other instead of just being enlarged superhumans. That last strike with the Rebake's tomahawk throw against Ein that caused his Graze and the Kimaris to collide felt so powerful. Also, that FACE OPEN

My first impression of this episode's action was how underwhelming the animation and impact of Barbatos's mace was on the Grazes. While i understand its in space, i barely felt the heavy mace's impact and power. It was as if Barbatos wasn't wielding such a big ass, badass weapon.