Macross - Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

-hmmm. Head design reminds me of the Macross 7 enemy Valkyries--which for the life of me I can't seem to find on Google and I can't rememebr what they were called...

[pinoy78]

The Protodevlin modified VF-14's? I think they were called the Elgozorene.

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/VF-14_Vampire

It's definitely looking like it....and a bit of the SV-51 pointy head too.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Windermere fleet. They have at least two classes. It wouldn't surprise me if they had some unseen command ship type.

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[Darthtabby]

So apparently the drones that combine with the Draken are called Lil Draken. In real life Lill-Draken was the (probably retroactive) nickname given to the experimental SAAB 210 that was used to test the real life Draken's double delta wing configuration.

Is it just me, or is that thing kind of moe?

(Sidenote: Although its often stated that the name "Draken" means "dragon" it apparently actually means "kite.")

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Is it just me, or is that thing kind of moe?

They're definitely rounder and less angry-looking than the typical Ghost drone.

[Saint X]

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

They're definitely rounder and less angry-looking than the typical Ghost drone.

Less hax though than your V-9s in atmospheric combat. I would bet one V-9 would have taken on all 12 of the Main Knight group's drones and still own a couple more.

God forbid it's an unshackled one. Clearly the Knights never knew the word curbstomp until that day.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

They're definitely rounder and less angry-looking than the typical Ghost drone.

I was actually referring to the real life SAAB 210 test aircraft which the Lill Draken drones are named after.

Anyway I was reviewing some footage from Episode 1, and it seems the missiles in the Draken's add on missile bays are stored at an angle. Going by my count of this frame and others, there are thirty seven missiles per bay (assuming the dorsal and ventral bays are identical). Plus whatever the Lill Draken drones are carrying for their missiles tubes.

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The missiles themselves are also rather interesting. They have pop out tail fins, and thrusters on the sides of their bodies which they use to practically jump off the storage racks. They're also pretty darn agile -after jumping off the racks they essentially do a one hundred eight degree flip to orient their noses toward Messer's fighter.

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[Saint X]

Yes macross missiles even have verniers on them. I wonder what kind of development would be needed irl to have this capability.

I also wonder if it is possible to re-sculpt a working Draken EDF RC plane into the SV-262 or build one from scratch- even if just flying w/o the drones...

Plus points if it has detachable drones that can fly independently (well redocking them would be a whole new challenge)

[Renegade334]

RL missiles like the AIM-9X already have thrust vectoring to achieve extreme angles of interception, but at the moment verniers are AFAIK only used in (much) larger missiles to help them stabilize after (vertical) launch, like the Russo-Indian BrahMos. The only other exceptions are for kinetic-kill vehicles used in the exoatmospheric layer, and those aren't really missiles per se, but specialized warheads, and ground-based, anti-RPG missiles like Raytheon's Quick Kill. Verniers on longer, narrow frames used for dogfighting, however, pose two problems:
1. There's not much room in a air-to-air missile, so that space might as well be used to store more electronics (better detection and tracking or countermeasure discrimination), a larger warhead (greater lethality) or more rocket fuel (longer effective ranges) rather than a fancy gimmick.
2. Structural problems caused by excessive G-forces. Vernier thrusters firing up rather aggressively on a (long) tubular airframe flying at Mach 2/3 could cause the fuselage to come apart in midair if the maneuver is rather radical. Shorter, stubbier airframes like the ones in the screenshot above (or on Raytheon's Quick Kill munition), however, should be more insensitive to such stress.

Right now thrust vectoring (on the main rocket motor) is plenty enough.

[Wild Goose]

I should also add that generally you don't want your AAMs to have to pull these sorts of maneuvers in gravity, since that results in reduced energy. One of the lessons that TOPGUN taught US Navy F-4 drivers was the engagement envelope of the Sidewinder and Sparrow, and how to manuever so that when you fired you were in the most advantageous position with the most potential energy for your missile. This is how gunless F-4Cs racked up higher kill ratios than gun-equipped F-4Es (and also USAF training was not as focused on ACM as the USN).

[Annorax]

SO What the hell hit Messer in ep10? The guns on the wrist from ep8? Did they just make one up out of nowhere and whacked Mohikan?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Annorax

SO What the hell hit Messer in ep10? The guns on the wrist from ep8? Did they just make one up out of nowhere and whacked Mohikan?

It was fired from the Draken's nose. Though as I stated, your body wouldn't splatter like that upon impact.

- Tak

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Annorax

SO What the hell hit Messer in ep10? The guns on the wrist from ep8? Did they just make one up out of nowhere and whacked Mohikan?

Those should be the equivalent of VF head lasers, except that on the Sv-262, the nose is the head.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Annorax

SO What the hell hit Messer in ep10? The guns on the wrist from ep8? Did they just make one up out of nowhere and whacked Mohikan?

As Gravitas noted, they're the head "lasers" (I tend to think of them as some kind of particle beam weapons myself since their portrayal isn't very laser like) since the Draken's head is (part?) of the nose in fighter mode. The wrist guns end up along the dorsal spine in fighter mode.

The configuration does allow the Draken to concentrate its guns forward, but doesn't let the head guns fire to the rear like the ones on many newer VFs like the 25 and 31 (for all the good that generally does).

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

I should also add that generally you don't want your AAMs to have to pull these sorts of maneuvers in gravity, since that results in reduced energy. One of the lessons that TOPGUN taught US Navy F-4 drivers was the engagement envelope of the Sidewinder and Sparrow, and how to manuever so that when you fired you were in the most advantageous position with the most potential energy for your missile. This is how gunless F-4Cs racked up higher kill ratios than gun-equipped F-4Es (and also USAF training was not as focused on ACM as the USN).

You gotta admit its a heck of a way to deal with a bandit on your six though.

BTW, I noted in the latest episode that the micro missiles on the VF-31 also have vernier thrusters, though as of yet they haven't been used to do what we've seen the Draken's missiles do.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

You gotta admit its a heck of a way to deal with a bandit on your six though.

BTW, I noted in the latest episode that the micro missiles on the VF-31 also have vernier thrusters, though as of yet they haven't been used to do what we've seen the Draken's missiles do.

Assuming that you want to use the same micromissiles in space and atmo, vermiers make sense, since you can't use the fins for steering given the lack of air in a vacuum. *shrug*

[ReddyRedWolf]

Sketchley from MW has two new pieces of info. The Sv used by Windermere during the 2050's and the name of the VF-31A.

Originally Posted by sketchley

Great Mechanics G: 2016 Summer has a bunch of *new* or revised names for some of the Macross Delta Valkyries:
Draken III
- Sv-262Hs (commander model)
- Sv-262Ba (standard production model)
- Sv-262Hs Draken III Lildraken equipment
Sv-154
The Windamia F-104 based Valkyrie. Doesn't look like it has a name. Scanlation: it mentions that it doesn't have a dogfighting ability - but that could be referencing the F-104 that it is based on.
VF-31 series
- VF-31 Siegfried (used by Chaos's Delta Platoon)
- VF-31A Kairos (used by Chaos's Alpha Platoon and others - interesting counterpoint to the YF-30 Chronos name, eh)
- VF-31 Super Pack (no specific name or numeric designation, yet)

I found the pages Sketchley is referring to at /a/. The Sv-262 was designed inspired by the VF-9. The length of the Macross Elysion is 828 meters.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

I found the pages Sketchley is referring to at /a/. The Sv-262 was designed inspired by the VF-9. The length of the Macross Elysion is 828 meters.

Huh, so the Elysion is shorter than a full-fledged Macross class, but definitely larger than a Quarter. Given it's size, it might be the case that it's really more of a proto-Quarter, where the Elysion is one of the steps to miniaturizing a Macross class.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Huh, so the Elysion is shorter than a full-fledged Macross class, but definitely larger than a Quarter. Given it's size, it might be the case that it's really more of a proto-Quarter, where the Elysion is one of the steps to miniaturizing a Macross class.

Or they were just building it in ways they saw fit? This is not a standard NUNs vessel, but a privately owned and operated PMC unit.

- Tak

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Winchester from Space Battles

Model kit promos and manuals and whatnot for the Bandai 1/72 VF-31J kit is out. Here's their PDF promo brochure:

http://bandai-hobby.net/site/charact...31j_spec01.pdf

Since the PDF has selectable text, it's machine translatable, so I plugged in some of it into Google Translate. To wit:

? VF-31J [SPEC]
Basic design: Surya Aerospace
Renovated: Chaos Valkyrie Works
Overall length: 19.31m overall width: 14.14m
Height: 3.85m (Battroid time: 15.33m ? not included laser machine gun)
Empty weight: 8,525kg (not including multi-purpose container equipment)
Airframe design maximum load: 29.5G
(At the time of ISC operation is protected from both high-G aircraft, crew and equipment)
Engine: Shinsei Industry / P & W / RR Co., Ltd.
FF-3001 / FC2 stage IIC heat nuclear turbine engine × 2
Space maximum thrust: 1,875KN + × 2
Fold Wave system during operation is up to about 15%
Over boost is possible.
High Mobility thrusters: P & W HMM-10A
Maximum speed: M5.5 + (advanced 10,000m / However heat limit)
Thrust Ribasa, three-dimensional deflection nozzle equipment

The big gun pod is labeled "Howard Co., Ltd. LU-18A beam gun pod", and the explanation given is that previous VFs had physical gun pods, but engine output is now great enough to support a beam gun pod and so the VF-31 is now officially equipped with one.

The knives are labeled "AK / VF-M11 Assault knife", with the explanation telling where it's stored (back edge of elbow shield), that it's made of super-alloy, and how the edge can be enhanced with the use of the pin-point barrier for extra force.

The "Elbow Shield" caption states that they're made from Energy Conversion Armor, and can be improved with the pin point barrier, then something about functioning as "Uchitsubasa" which I don't know what it means.

The "Arm rail gun (mini gun pod)" caption mentions how it's stored facing forwards in fighter mode and rotates around a fulcrum to face forward in Gerwalk or battroid, near as I can tell.

The model kit instructions have bigger captions for some of the items, but the scans are small so I can't see the characters well enough to transcribe them.

Well this confirms all the Delta Platoon VF-31 Siegfried are custom units.

edit:

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[ReddyRedWolf]

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Huh? Just noticed the Dulfim type can fire like Supervision gunship and Meltrandi gunship without the the whole split transformation.

Windermere's Deneb variant don't seem equipped as a gunship. The Catamaran-type of theirs half serves a gunship it seems while the other a carrier.

edit:
According to Macross Delta novelization vol 1 by Kodachi Ukyo the Sv-154 was called the Sv-154 Svärd, meaning Sword in Swedish.

edit:
Well this is interesting. Epsilon is selling two variants of the Deneb class.

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