Code Geass Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Now, we know in both cases it isn't his fault. But what does it look like from someone watching the news on TV? As I mentioned in the past, Suzaku is getting all the wrong kinds of fame right now.

That depends on whether or not this new news will even make it into television. Surely, Batre and a number of other bodyguard's/Clovis's Knight if that person exist's betrayal of Clovis for not being by Clovis's side protecting him didn't make it into television and went on trial secretly in the mainland, where Schniezel pulled strings for Batre. The Clovis-assasination frame on Suzaku was neccesary to be a huge publicity stunt, so that Jeremiah/Purist can pave their influence and also to eliminate worry among the Britiannians/instill fear in rebels, but now that Suzaku's a Knight of a royal princess, there's a chance Euphie's reputation...which is already bad to begin with, worse with knighting Suzaku...now with the whole knight's betrayal thing...she's going to be the 103rd in line for the throne at this rate.

Actually...wasn't the one who gave the order to "hold Zero and die together" the officer, and not Schniezel? Schiezel only gave orders for Hadron/missiles and I don't believe kill Suzaku as well was anywhere in the order, further enforced by him saying that he thinks he survived... So technically, any royal prince/princess can just override that treason. So...it may not even go to court, if Schniezel or Euphie decides to bail him out. Won't do any good for their imperial rep though.

[dxanato]

I don't think Euphie care about her reps as much as the other member of her family. After all she pick some one that is 100% eleven to be her knight. This has already had it effect on her rep.

Euphie is pretty much safe by the fact that Cornelia will protect her. If Cornelia happen to die at some point Euphie will need to get stronger or otherwise she doom. I pretty sure that any of her other half sibling will not go out their way to protect her. Well Lelouch might come to her rescue since they had reestablished their old relation again as family.

At the end of 17.5 Lelouch wonder or ask why did Suzaku pick Euphie over Lelouch and Nunnally. Has this episode soften that pain he felt for Suzaku picking Euphie as her Royal?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by dxanato

Euphie is pretty much safe by the fact that Cornelia will protect her. If Cornelia happen to die at some point Euphie will need to get stronger or otherwise she doom.

But if Euphie was to ever strike out on her quest with Suzaku in trying to change the system, then she can't rely on Cornelia's assistance.

Part of Cornelia's protection comes from restricting Euphie's freedom. It would strain their relationship if Euphie did something risky against Cornelia's advice, then come groveling to her for help when the going gets tough.

If Euphie wants to be a leader, she would need to act like one. Cornelia may protect her from harm, but at the same time the protection restricts her political mobility. You can't have the cake and eat it too.

Part of Code Geass' theme is that nothing is ever free. Cornelia's sisterly love is one such "free" item.

Make no mistake; if everything went horribly wrong for Euphie in her quest, Cornellia will certainly be willing to save her. But if that happens, don't be surprised if Cornelia unofficially stripped all Euphie's political powers in exchange. Cornelia would never let Euphie make any decisions ever again after that, for her own protection.

[Nightengale]

If this episode is any reinforcement, it does nothing but further prove that Taniguchi created Suzaku just to be made fun of.

Firstly, there was the whole "I killed my **** and I had no choice". Like VCV once said, that itself is material for a whole slew of 4Komas. Now, it's "LIVE!". Considering that this GEASS is most likely permanent, it'd make for another unintentional joke materials. Think of the possibilities. GEASS kicking in everytime there's a remotely possible scenario that Suzaku might die.

Anyway, good episode. The mention of Clovis's name alone made this episode even better. I would've prefered it if we saw a teenage Clovis doing a Honey & Clover scene together with the rest though. : (

[quina]

Suzaku revealing he killed his father, was that in any way a side effect of the geass?

I don't think its the geass. Its just that Susaku comes to accepting that fact which he deny for a long time. People accepts things more when they talked about it. The fact that his secret has been expose to: Mao, Lulu, and even Zero makes him more comfortable to talk it out.

Additionally his partner this time is Kallen. She is Japanese, and she too was hiding some secret. He found out her secret (yep.. he found out EVERYTHING), so he more likely to share his with her. Although they are fighting for a different sides, they two seems to share some unseen common bond, and I like that.

[kira-sama]

btw what the similar of suzaku father and zero?

wanna see when suzaku meet kallen at ashford
are they nervous or just as usual

[Renegade334]

^
According to Suzaku, both Genbu and Zero behave as if the world revolved around them and that their (destructive) will is a decision they impose on everyone.

As for Suzaku, considering the mess he's in at the end of this episode, it's unsure whether he'll be able to go back to Ashford. Not to mention that there is, to our knowledge, no heavily incriminating footage of Kallen being a member of the OoBK. With her posing as a frail student with a different hairdo, as well as lack of material/definitive evidence from his side, Suzaku can't exactly walk up to her and give her the Judas' Kiss, just like that.

He'll have other things to worry about...and they might want to avoid each other for the time being. I wouldn't be surprised if Kallen even tried to find an excuse to ditch class and keep herself at home. With her good scores, it's not like she has to worry about losing points or getting behind.

[ashlay]

^
According to Suzaku, both Genbu and Zero behave as if the world revolved around them and that their (destructive) will is a decision they impose on everyone.

>_< god, why must Suzaku be so...I don't even know what to put here anymore. guess the proverbial apple really never does fall far from the tree.

well, anyway, it was still funny that Suzaku actually flinched/backed off for a second (not like it really mattered, he won't change his views) when Kallen started asking what her brother died for then.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

According to Suzaku, both Genbu and Zero behave as if the world revolved around them and that their (destructive) will is a decision they impose on everyone.

The irony here, obviously, is that the biggest man in town who's doing this so-called "I'm the center of the world" destructive manner is the Britannian emperor himself. The man Suzaku pledged oath to.

I wonder what it would take for Suzaku to realize that.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by aohige

The irony here, obviously, is that the biggest man in town who's doing this so-called "I'm the center of the world" destructive manner is the Britannian emperor himself. The man Suzaku pledged oath to.

I wonder what it would take for Suzaku to realize that.

Something drastic, obviously. Apparently, 'seeing is believing' is one of the better ways to shock him into realising something like that.

The thing is, we still don't know much about the Emperor's true intentions for annexation. Perhaps we get a gist of it regarding the huge-ass GEASS sign on the ground, but other than that...Unless someone who understands RAWs can point out the significance of that, I should probably shut my trap.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Oh, I have no doubt Suzaku will survive this new court-case. It's only a question of how.
.

Easy, the order originally came from the Imperial Prince right? He can easily remove it just like he did with General Padre. Besides, he seemed to be concerned about Suzaku anyways.

Just a minor slap for insubordination and then move on.

Though my question if I was an officer was why not just order Suzaku to kill Zero rather than just holding him? If he can hold him then surely he can just kill him right there...but that's another story.

The irony here, obviously, is that the biggest man in town who's doing this so-called "I'm the center of the world" destructive manner is the Britannian emperor himself. The man Suzaku pledged oath to.

I wonder what it would take for Suzaku to realize that.

Well for starters, Suzaku isn't exactly too keen about the emperor either.

The thing is, we still don't know much about the Emperor's true intentions for annexation. Perhaps we get a gist of it regarding the huge-ass GEASS sign on the ground, but other than that...Unless someone who understands RAWs can point out the significance of that, I should probably shut my trap.

General Padre pointed out that the main reasons for the invasions are to grab a hold on the ruins that are littered across the world as the Emperor seems obessed with them. Hence, Japan was not invaded because of the sakuradiate, it was because of the ruins. These ruins are in fact 'mapping' the invasions around the world. The "fight fight fight" is obviously just a front for what's really happening in the back. This is a guess on Padre's part but he has found several around the world which the Emperor has taken control of.

[Juvyniled]

Isn't it a little presumptuous to say that Suzaku wanted to die because he had failed? If peace was his objective, then he had failed a long time ago. He could have simply given up life for all the troubles he was going through. Yet, we still continue to see him fight.

As for the order given to Suzaku, whether it was the officer who gave him the order or not, was Schneizel on board the craft or not (didn't watch the raws)? If the officer is giving him to the commands, it must have been a order passed down from a higher authority - which would likely be Schneizel. If that was an order out of HIS own authority, he is essentially defying the wishes of those higher in command. However, as we can see, the ship DID fire upon them and that only leads me to believe that 1) if the officer was the one who gave the order, he is either in charge or 2) is receiving an order from a higher authority and 3) if Schneizel is onboard, then it is his desire to fire upon them.

If he disobeys orders, it will NOT go well with others. And he might as well have thrown his reputation in the dumpster if he decided only now to turn face. Suzaku is definitely naive, as he MIGHT be (I am NOT stating this as a fact) believing that in death, he could possibly receive more recognition than trying to defend his right to live at that point. However, as we have seen, the only true character to have more meaning in death than in life is probably Marianne (not that her life wasn't valuable, but her death affected many things).

This only leads me to question the order itself: Why? If the order was to subdue and restrain him until they could fire upon them, why would it be necessary to fire upon them at all? They could have ordered Suzaku to kill Zero himself. Now it leads me to consider that Purists were involved, and that could possibly mean Schneizel is a purist himself and wanted to get rid of an Eleven in such a 'noble' position.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

According to the episode that doesn't seem to the case since Schneizel was planning on searching for Suzaku afterwards. The act was simply a gamble and he was the one who ordered the cannon to fire.

THat and he was happy to see that Suzaku was safe as well so if he's a purist, he's hiding it pretty good. Let's also not forget that it's because of him that Suzaku is allowed to pilot the Lancelot which Cornelia's generals noted that even they couldn't stop it because he ordered it.

[Juvyniled]

THat and he was happy to see that Suzaku was safe

That I didn't know. A gamble... on Suzaku's life no doubt.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

Isn't it a little presumptuous to say that Suzaku wanted to die because he had failed? If peace was his objective, then he had failed a long time ago. He could have simply given up life for all the troubles he was going through. Yet, we still continue to see him fight.

Don't ask me; ask the director.
The fact that Suzaku had a deathwish was canon. This isn't guesswork but official statement from Sunrise. Those who read spoilers would know about this, but only in this episode was it confirmed.

Further, you are missing the point; Suzaku doesn't want to commit suicide. He wants to die trying to achieve peace rather than achieve peace. In his twisted mind, it is okay this way.

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Further, you are missing the point; Suzaku doesn't want to commit suicide. He wants to die trying to achieve peace rather than achieve peace. In his twisted mind, it is okay this way.

So then he really doesn't understand that he has more potential in life than in death. If that is really the case, I'd rather just see his character killed off. I don't want another one of those characters who starts off noble and then falls further into dementia like Shinn. They really only serve the purpose of scapegoat. Not to mention his character really defies all logic and rationality.

[JediNight]

Suzaku is naive, what else can you say. Even if he had killed himself and got rid of Zero, it wouldn't have changed anything. They ordered him to stay put and die, because he was a disposable 11 -- not because it would be some heroic medal-worthy selfless act for Britannia. They would just think it's 1 less 11 to deal with.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

So then he really doesn't understand that he has more potential in life than in death. If that is really the case, I'd rather just see his character killed off. I don't want another one of those characters who starts off noble and then falls further into dementia like Shinn. They really only serve the purpose of scapegoat. Not to mention his character really defies all logic and rationality.

It's not so much scapecoating as polarising.

Suzaku is the way he is because he is Lulu's foil. In both these characters, there are three sides to their existence:

1. What other people see them as.

Lulu is seen as great threat to Britannians, supernatural saviour to the Japanese.
Suzaku is seen as a turncoat who can't be truly trusted by both sides.

2. Who they want to see themselves as.
Lulu needed to become a cold-hearted killer. If he doesn't there would be no way he can succeed his goals. This side is hidden from most people, and is the side that made him kill JLF members for his own gain, or shoot Clovis.

Suzaku did everything because he believe he want to be just, to combat evil. But Suzaku don't really know how to succeed...

3. Who they really are.

Dispite his best efforts, Lulu is struggling to be as evil as he needs to be. After killing Clovis, Lulu was violently sick afterwards. And when Lancelot's pilot was identified, Lulu really should have killed or at least Geassed him, as CC suggested. Lulu just couldn't force himself to sever his friendship, even though every logical side of him said he should.

As for Suzaku, all he really wanted to do was to run away. Who he believe himself to be is preventing this though, and as such Suzaku is waiting for someone else (like a military court) to take responsibility for his own desired death.

[Juvyniled]

Suzaku is the way he is because he is Lulu's foil.

That suicidal aspect that everyone is making note of in no way contrasts with Lelouch's character. I mean, it's not as if Lelouch is CLINGING on to life. If Suzaku is willing death upon himself, then it is by far a much greater flaw than anything that Lelouch is affected by. As far as we can see, Lelouch is very composed. Even if he is 'walking down the path of immorality', Suzaku by contrast is oppositely trying to 'ascend the path of morality' (according to what he believes). And yes, Lelouch and Suzaku contrast in that Lelouch is more confrontational with his problems while Suzaku 'runs away' from his problems. However, he is really only running away by ignoring/hiding the facts that burden him.

I believe it's even more far-fetched to assume that, as you say it is confirmed in that episode, he is running away by desiring death at the hands of those who would "take up his responsibility." He is indeed naive in believing that he can change the system, but it would be MUCH more naive for him to believe that they would take any responsibility for anything he's done. For one thing, if they were to assume responsibility, they would have accepted him and his actions, which would signify to some extent that he had succeeded in changing the system. And we know that isn't true and he should certainly know that he isn't being seen in a wonderful light.

[Deathkillz]

to put it in a nut shell suzaku is still trying to repent for bumping off his old man ~ by siding with the "enemy" (who has control over the area's) suzaku is trying to use that power and change it from within...he doesnt care about which side to take but he will take the side with the most influence so changing it from within will have a greater impact (which so happens to be britannia) then taking a weak side (ie zero) ~