Spice and Wolf - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Methuselah]

Over the translations the scene Lawrence talked about was like
"Before them, you..." or "In front of them, you..."as if he knows whats going on. It might be something of Horo. Therefor, I speculate the OVA will tell us something related.. A wild speculation out of how the translations has put it.

-I can't tell, but I'm sure there was blood on her knees when the view switches to her legs. Something to consider over the theory of courses of dominance: nipping the prey.

[Budweineken]

I think it was simply mud. She probably got on her knees and beg, something that a prideful Horo would never consider doing. She did say she solved it in a civilized way, even if it meant shaming herself.

[radioIzzy]

That was a great series
I thoroughly enjoyed it, even if I didn't understand everything, for example the "trade" talks. But that's ok

I'm really looking forward to the next season, hopefully they'll make another series

[Intranetusa]

Can someone explain to me the business dealings in the last episode? It was a bit confusing.

So the Remario company originally planned to have 1000 gold coins worth of gold, but they only got 100? Then Lawerence lied to Nora and told her that they had 600 gold coins, and could make 6000 gold coins in profit?

Then Lawerence told Nora they would split it 50/50, then went to the trader and told the Remario leader to give him 50 gold coins every year for 10 years...but that would mean they had 1000 goin coins? Is this correct? :/

Then near the end, his friend told him he would buy 30 and 100...30 and 100 of what? 30 and 100 worth of goin coins? But didn't he say he only had 100 worth of gold coins?

I'm so confused... =(

[DanielSong39]

The business dealings in this show can get confusing at times...

Nevertheless, here is my read:

(1) Lemerio originally planned to smuggle X amount of gold. However, they could only acquire Y, a much smaller amount.

(2) The value of the gold goes up tenfold if the smuggling is successful.

(3) Lawrence and co. cannot smuggle the gold without Lemerio's help.

(4) In the end, Lawrence cuts a deal with Lemerio so that they can keep enough money to save the company. In return Lemerio owes money to the guild. The leader of the guild gives Lawrence an advance so he can pay off his debts.

Conclusion:
(1) Lemerio's head was very dumb. Lawrence and co. were obviously small-timers and could be bought on the cheap. They had a dozen guards surveying the situation, and that was all the "insurance" they really needed.

(2) Lawrence negotiated a very shrewd deal. Nice recovery after the disastrous deal with the armor.

(3) Looks like Lawrence adds another name to his telephone book - after scratching Chloe's name off the list. Lawrence, I'd advise you to be a little more discreet from now on - especially with Horo still around.

[Intranetusa]

lol, thanks. But do you have any idea on the exact monetary figures?

It seems to me that the producers couldn't decide on exactly how much gold there were, so they used different values in different parts of the episode.

Gold smuggled ranges from 100-600 rumario coins (lying to Nora), out of an intended 1000
10x profit = 1000-6000 (lying to Nora)

Lawerence tells Lemario to give him 50x 10years of gold + debt of an unknown amount to Lawerence's guild, in exchange for Lawerence's 1000 rumario gold coins worth of smuggled gold.

[salv87]

well as far as I understood.. they were going to smuggle 600 gold (worth 6000 profit), but since Lemario couldn't get the full sum of money, and thus could buy only 100 (worth 1000 profit) he saw that the profit wouldn't be enough so they decided to trick Lawrence..
As to why Lawrence lied to Nora - maybe not to discourage her and test her faithfulness?
when striking the end deal with Lemario, who knew that there was only 1000 worth of gold, lawrence asked for half of it (500 but payed in 10 years time) to be assigned to Lawrence's guild, leaving the rest to reestablish Lemarios company.
The giuld payed lawrence some money for this deal, thus allowing him to repay all his depts..
that's about it I guess, at least how I understood..

[Intranetusa]

^

If the 50x 10 years gold was all transferred to the guild, would Lawerence get all the money or would he have to pay a fee to his guild?

Lawerence's guild master said something about Lawerence able to turn debt into profit after 10 years, so I assume Lawerence gets most of the money. So the 50x 10 was transferred to Lawerence's guild, then the guild master decides to buy 30 worth of gold, then waits 2 years and buys 100 worth of gold?

[salv87]

ok.. so as far as I understood the deal could be looked at as smth similar (but not exactly the same) as a modern bond.. lemario assigned the income to the guild. and the guild bought that deal from Lawrence, for 30 gold (so as to have proof that Remario must pay them). As for the 100 gold I guess it's just a bonus if the deal is real (lawrence was also surprised to recieve it).
what concernes the income over time.. I think that 50 gold/year will be transfered to the GUILD, but Lawrence will get some part of it since he was the one who brought the deal (or maybe it was stated in the contract that he will get part of the gold).
Correct me if I'm missing smth ^_^

[Intranetusa]

That interpretation makes it more clear. Thanks ^^

[salv87]

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

That interpretation makes it more clear. Thanks ^^

You're welcome, but that's my interpretation, don't know if it's actually correct

[Kaguya]

Neither the debt nor the claim are described in detail in anime because it is confusing.
In the light novel, the amount of money of the debt and the claim is described as follows.
Incidentally, 1 Lumione is the amount of money which does not have trouble in living for three months. (Is it equivalent to about 4000 dollars?)

Lawrence's property (Unit:Lumione)

1. 50(spice)
2. Armors (worthless) - [47 and 3/4 (debt)]
3. Before smuggling the gold: 500 Lumione IOU
4. After smuggling the gold: 130 (cash) - Expenses = 50 (cash)

The items of expenses
Lawrence -> Jacob : 20 (The apology to the Lowen Trading Guild)
-> sheep butchery : 10 (Hush money)
-> creditors : 30 (The apology included)
-> Nora : 20

The incomes which Lawrence got for this smuggling are 130 Lumione, and it is all.
Since there was a risk of Remerio company going bankrupt again within ten years, Lawrence sold a 500 Lumione IOU to Lowen Trading Guild at the cheap price.
After all, Lawrence's property was recovered to the same amount of money as he got in Pattsio.


Remerio company's property (Unit:Lumione)

It is unknown how much the debt of Remerio company was.

1. Hidden property - [The debt by arms dealings.(about 900?)]
2. 1000 (gold -> cash) + Hidden property - [100 (purchase fund for gold)] - [The debt by arms dealings.(about 900?)] - 500 (The debt for ten years) = Hidden property - 500 (The debt for ten years)

Details of a 500 Lumione IOU
1st year's payment : 10
2nd year's payment : 20
3rd year's payment : 30
....
10th year's payment : 100
Total 550 Lumione

The debt by arms dealings might be less to rebuild the Remerio company.

[salv87]

maybe it's the difference between anime and LN, just in the anime the boss of the guilds headquarters told that lawrence "will still be able to collect 10 years of payments from Remerio" [16:23, ep 13].
If your description is correct then these wrods are either translated wrong, or some other mistake was made..

[CuXe]

Originally Posted by Methuselah

Well I just read the first few post of the thread of this episode and want to defend the idea that Horo was not [straight forward - raped] by the young wolves nor the youthful boss... They may have been just humiliated her verbally, beat her around, nipped at her, or even yearnate on her. I'm not a wolf-psychologist but I've seen enough animal shows of wolves humiliating a lone-wolf (female/male) that way. That's how they show dominance as a pack or to one another.

-If the point was already argued, please just take mine as another opposer to the "perv-theory." (its highly illogical to me.)

Other than that, the series was great. Perfect for an arc.

Good gosh I am glad I read the first few posts and this one which says exactly what I was thinking.... I mean Horo was coming back and when Lawrence asked her what she had done ... she asked him not to say it....she looked embarrassed/ashamed which is one of the characteristics females show when accepting the fact that they were raped..... the first impression that scene gave me was that she had to sexually submit to the big young wolf... which is NOT me or anyone else being Hecchi hentai... that's just the way wolves act according to Discovery/animal planet and real life .........

Just the thought of something like that made me feel very VERY uncomfortable... I choose to believe she only bowed down and discarded her pride.... still I don't like it when editors/writers don't put highly visible clues to such ambiguous situations... I know that there might have been some dirt on her knees but it went through so fast I didn't notice it ... even after watching it 3 times ... gotta go frame by frame I guess (was watching with my portable video player creative zen W)

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by CuXe

Good gosh I am glad I read the first few posts and this one which says exactly what I was thinking.... I mean Horo was coming back and when Lawrence asked her what she had done ... she asked him not to say it....she looked embarrassed/ashamed which is one of the characteristics females show when accepting the fact that they were raped..... the first impression that scene gave me was that she had to sexually submit to the big young wolf... which is NOT me or anyone else being Hecchi hentai... that's just the way wolves act according to Discovery/animal planet and real life .........

Just the thought of something like that made me feel very VERY uncomfortable... I choose to believe she only bowed down and discarded her pride.... still I don't like it when editors/writers don't put highly visible clues to such ambiguous situations... I know that there might have been some dirt on her knees but it went through so fast I didn't notice it ... even after watching it 3 times ... gotta go frame by frame I guess (was watching with my portable video player creative zen W)

I never really thought along those lines, though on hindsight could see others views. True we're dealing with wovles, but we're also dealing with wolves that have a certain degree of intelligence. Don't think she would have kneeled down and put her pride aside if that wouldn't be enough. Horo may have wanted to just get moving again. But if the other option is what it would have taken she probably would have just fought and kicked their asses.

May have been a while since I saw the episode, but do remember some dirt on her her knees. Since they didn't delve too far thought that was enough to signify what happened.

[Blank-Mage]

Or we can all just not think about it. Horo told us not to, after all, and I for one won't argue with it.

[CuXe]

yeap... I am now glad that after watching this episode on my TV I was able to see the dirt on her knees....... I was watching with my zen vision W which has a wide screen but is kinda small and makes it hard to notice these lil but important details...

I was just kinda anxious because Horo is one of those Top Female Characters that you put WAAAAAYYY UP there against any other female lead and the thought of something bad happening to her was troubling .. I am glad that was not the case.....

[RayzorFang]

Well, when i first watched this episode I also thought something really bad happened to Horo which really made me uncomfortable but then after some thinking, it should just be her kneeling to the wolves to admit defeat or weakness, since there was that scene with dirt/blood on her knees.
There is also the overlooked reaction from Lawrence, who says according to the anime subs "Don't tell me, infront of them you...". Although this reaction is quite serious i think its only due to the fact that Lawrence understands how much pride it cost Horo. If what happened to Horo was actually something really bad like the above mentioned cruelties that i do not wish to repeat i would think that Lawrence's reaction would be much more than a simple "masaka".

I'm not sure if the light novels cover this part in detail as i'm stuck on volume1 Chapter 4 "remembering the friend" scene until the translations are finished, which I hope will happen soon! Thanks Barbs, Judge and Duncan for all the translations so far and keep up the good work.

[vansonbee]

Just finished the last episode for season 1. I felt it was rush for a last episode, but I don't care, because I know there a OVA + second season out there already. LOL

I don't know what was Horo problem, the most damage Enik could of done, was hurt her pride by doing what most dogs do. Humping her leg lolz

Hopefully we get more dog on dog action later on. Base on Horo human forum and the young wolf, the young wolf looks much bigger than her wolf form. Too bad no wolf language translator. XD

Hearty series!

[vansonbee]

What a nice ending... its been 3 years and no news of a 3rd season.

Spice & Wolf has so many well known VA.

Koshimizu Ami as Horo and as Kallen in Code Geass

Fukuyama, Jun as Lawrence and as Lelouch in Code Geass

Abe VA is Paku Romi, she plays well known chars like Elric Edward