[manga] Sasuke stronger than Naruto

[Xrayz0r]

Originally Posted by KatonMakai

-Also, I blame Yamato for destroying Naruto's future. That's right, he's the reason why Naruto is going to suck now. Tells him: "You're better off not using the Kyuubi". What a load of BULLSHIT. That's like telling Goku not to go Super Saiyan because he's stronger without it. Naruto had a chance to be amazing by using the Kyuubi, but now all that's going to left for him is a mediocre existance at best.

I don't wish to counter that because people like you will never be convinced, KatonMakai.

I just wanna say you're extremely stupid, and your comparison with Goku is the dumbest ever.


Edit: no wait.. Ill do it anyway.

Naruto is strong enough not to have to constantly rely on Kyuubi's chakra.

Who made Yamato say that?

Well, who?

That's right, Kishimoto.

For your information, Kishi is the guy who's writing Naruto, also the guy who decides how strong the people in Naruto are going to get. That includes, WTF?, Naruto!

So like, if Kishi says Naruto's true power lies within him and does not come from the Kyuubi, then at least we can assume he's kinda right considering he's the one who writes Naruto, right?

We can assume that, right? Considering, HES THE ONE THAT WRITES "NARUTO", RIGHT?

roflmao, dumbass.

a mediocre existance at best.

*BIG BUZZER NOISE*

ERROR! (computer voice)

WRONG ANSWER!!

Surpassing Yondaime

a mediocre existance at best.

w00tF, ERRORR!! incompatible!! SYSTEM FAILLURE!!

OVERLOADOVERLOADSYSTEMSHUTDOWN..ZZZZzzz



ps- this forum is filled with morons

and dont reply with "ur a moron urself xray" cause its not funny

[Suna no tate]

1) Yamato himself said he wasn't sure how long and how much kyubi chakra he can suppress.
2) Naruto was in a low level state
3) If Uchiha members like sasuke can fully suppress the kyubi's chakra, then where were they during the fight with the 9 tails? And where was Yamato? More than likely, those guys could only suppress a very small part. How much did Sasuke suppress? Also, at higher levels, Naruto's mind isn't even present. For the same reason, at higher levels genjutsu probably doesn't work that well, as there isn't anyone there it can work on.
4) Oro is a condescending idiot. You know it. I know it. Everything he says in battle is a joke unless he's about to die. That comment about Sasuke was just a tease as was almost everything else he said.
5) Sasuke is gay. Come on...he's a traitor to his village, he tried to kill his best friend, and is still weaker than the guy he's doing it all for (Itachi).

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

I don't wish to counter that because people like you will never be convinced, KatonMakai.

I just wanna say you're extremely stupid, and your comparison with Goku is the dumbest ever.

Edit: no wait.. Ill do it anyway.

Naruto is strong enough not to have to constantly rely on Kyuubi's chakra.

Who made Yamato say that?

Well, who?

That's right, Kishimoto.

For your information, Kishi is the guy who's writing Naruto, also the guy who decides how strong the people in Naruto are going to get. That includes, WTF?, Naruto!

So like, if Kishi says Naruto's true power lies within him and does not come from the Kyuubi, then at least we can assume he's kinda right considering he's the one who writes Naruto, right?

We can assume that, right? Considering, HES THE ONE THAT WRITES "NARUTO", RIGHT?

roflmao, dumbass.

-Man you certainly don't waste time taking a stab at another person's intellect. You remind me of another member, Soma. But unlike that person you seem to be not devoid of any humour whatsoever. Heck your response made me laugh. Guess I may as well respond (p.s: You're right, I'm stubborn as a mule and I don't give up easily, but it doesn't mean that I'm not willing to listen).

-The Goku bit: care to explain why the comparison does not work? Both characters have an alter, more powerful state which they can activate at will which is what I based my comparison on. I didn't compare the 2 based on personality if that's what you thought.

-Now of course I know that Kishimoto Masashi writes the story, I wouldn't be able to call myself a NarutoNazi if I didn't. However I prefer to use the characters' statements in my arguments rather than using the author all the time. Because the author is always right it's no fun to base arguments around his/her statement due to the fact their mind can change. As such I go by what the story has currently shown us rather than what the author says "might" happen. And because I go by the story I disagree with Yamato's comment.

*BIG BUZZER NOISE*

ERROR! (computer voice)

WRONG ANSWER!!

Surpassing Yondaime

a mediocre existance at best.

w00tF, ERRORR!! incompatible!! SYSTEM FAILLURE!!

OVERLOADOVERLOADSYSTEMSHUTDOWN..ZZZZzzz

ps- this forum is filled with morons

and dont reply with "ur a moron urself xray" cause its not funny

-Haha, that's funny 'cause you remind me so much of Guilty Gear's Robo-Ky with his mechanical speech. But for the argument, yeah Naruto wants to surpass all the Hokage but how is he going to do that when the odds are beyond him? From what I've read so far Kyuubi was his only ticket to actually make it but after he decided not to use it (or as you put it: Kishimoto made him decide not to use it) his chances went up in smoke.

-Lastly I have no intention of calling you a moron (what am I, a 12-year-old pre-pubescent girl?) But I'll ask you 1 final question: If this forum (in your eyes) is filled with morons then why do you bother posting here?

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

1) Yamato himself said he wasn't sure how long and how much kyubi chakra he can suppress.
2) Naruto was in a low level state
3) If Uchiha members like sasuke can fully suppress the kyubi's chakra, then where were they during the fight with the 9 tails? And where was Yamato? More than likely, those guys could only suppress a very small part. How much did Sasuke suppress? Also, at higher levels, Naruto's mind isn't even present. For the same reason, at higher levels genjutsu probably doesn't work that well, as there isn't anyone there it can work on.
4) Oro is a condescending idiot. You know it. I know it. Everything he says in battle is a joke unless he's about to die. That comment about Sasuke was just a tease as was almost everything else he said.
5) Sasuke is gay. Come on...he's a traitor to his village, he tried to kill his best friend, and is still weaker than the guy he's doing it all for (Itachi).

-Agreed, 100%.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by KatonMakai

-
-Lastly I have no intention of calling you a moron (what am I, a 12-year-old pre-pubescent girl?) But I'll ask you 1 final question: If this forum (in your eyes) is filled with morons then why do you bother posting here?.

That My friend, was priceless.

I still wondering the same thing, wao calling moron poster of this forum??? He Is like a repressed personallity of Yellow Flash.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Rurik

That My friend, was priceless.

I still wondering the same thing, wao calling moron poster of this forum??? He Is like a repressed personallity of Yellow Flash.

-Well I do what I can . Ah yes, Yellow Flash... Wonder what happened to that guy? Did he get banned again?

[Wrath of the Uchiha]

-If the Sharingan was all that was necessary to surpress Kyuubi's chakra then what's the point of having Yamato around then? Kakashi has the Sharingan so if Sasuke-hime can surpress it then so should Kakashi. Ergo, Yamato is a waste of space.

Sharingan was a general term, maybe you'd pefer the term 'Uchiha blood' :/

-Now I would like to ask: could Sasuke surpress the Kyuubi's chakra at a constant rate? Depending on how much chakra Naruto draws out each time (and how quickly he does it because if you remember in ch. 329 and 1 instance before Naruto's Tailed-modes come out almost instantly) Sasuke would have to alternate his own chakra output and the rate/speed of discharge in order to surpress it each time. Not to mention that each time he has to have more chakra that the current Tailed-mode in order to surpress it (in order to surpress someone else's chakra you need: 1: to have more chakra than your opponent, or 2: a seal of sorts to do the work for you).

As I said before I don't know or claim to know the specifics, it's possible Sasuke can't suppress tailed state and it's possible he can.

At this point it's only known Orochimaru confidently taunted Naruto in 3 tailed state that he can't count on matching upto Sasuke with the power of a Jinchuukri.

Fast forward a bit and we see that Naruto was in the process of transforming to Kyuubi mode despite trying to reject it [Naruto was weakened, but that affected his Kyuubi rejection, not transformation :/] that's when Sasuke interverned and stopped the transformation altogether.

This was further backed up with the Kyuubi being surprised at Sasuke for able to suppress its chakra, again one more hint that Sasuke was the cause of the suppression, not Naruto's will or his weakened state.

At this point there's more evidence towards Sasuke being able to stop Jinchuukri's transformation than not. However as I said before there's just not enough evidence for either and it's pure speculation on both sides whether Sasuke can suppress Naruto in 4 tailed state.

Not to mention that each time he has to have more chakra that the current Tailed-mode in order to surpress it (in order to surpress someone else's chakra you need: 1: to have more chakra than your opponent, or 2: a seal of sorts to do the work for you

So....which manga chapter that comes from? :|

1) Yamato himself said he wasn't sure how long and how much kyubi chakra he can suppress.
2) Naruto was in a low level state

Yamato != Sasuke

2) Naruto was in a low level state

Addressed previously in this post.

3) If Uchiha members like sasuke can fully suppress the kyubi's chakra, then where were they during the fight with the 9 tails? And where was Yamato? More than likely, those guys could only suppress a very small part. How much did Sasuke suppress? Also, at higher levels, Naruto's mind isn't even present. For the same reason, at higher levels genjutsu probably doesn't work that well, as there isn't anyone there it can work on.

Now that's a bunch of speculation filled in there, I will answer the points with my own =/

The 9 tails and Naruto are different entities, it should be trememdously easier controlling Jinchuukris.

Same for Yamato

It's also likely Sasuke can bring Naruto to his self back when Naruto is in 4 tailed state by 'waking up' his mind.

4) Oro is a condescending idiot. You know it. I know it. Everything he says in battle is a joke unless he's about to die. That comment about Sasuke was just a tease as was almost everything else he said.

Of course you can choose to ignore that statement as if a real person said it if you want, doesn't change that the statement was made in the manga and an action was done later on directly hinting towards this [Sasuke suppressing]

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Wrath of the Uchiha

Sharingan was a general term, maybe you'd pefer the term 'Uchiha blood' :/

As I said before I don't know or claim to know the specifics, it's possible Sasuke can't suppress tailed state and it's possible he can.

At this point it's only known Orochimaru confidently taunted Naruto in 3 tailed state that he can't count on matching upto Sasuke with the power of a Jinchuukri.

Fast forward a bit and we see that Naruto was in the process of transforming to Kyuubi mode despite trying to reject it [Naruto was weakened, but that affected his Kyuubi rejection, not transformation :/] that's when Sasuke interverned and stopped the transformation altogether.

This was further backed up with the Kyuubi being surprised at Sasuke for able to suppress its chakra, again one more hint that Sasuke was the cause of the suppression, not Naruto's will or his weakened state.

At this point there's more evidence towards Sasuke being able to stop Jinchuukri's transformation than not. However as I said before there's just not enough evidence for either and it's pure speculation on both sides whether Sasuke can suppress Naruto in 4 tailed state.

So....which manga chapter that comes from? :|

-I can live with that then, even if it's another plot ability which would make Yamato's existance even less than worthless.

-OK sure, since it's all speculation anyway. I will agree that Sasuke-hime was able to surpress the Kyuubi's chakra at it's pre-tailed state but since neither of us can claim/prove the same/otherwise for the the other forms we may as well then quit dragging this anymore than necessary. So Sasuke "can" surpress the pre-tailed-mode but for the others we will have to wait (if Naruto ever enters those states anyway).

-The first part comes from a logical point of view. Think of surpression as another form of "pushing back" something. In order to stop it from moving you need to first match it in power and then push back with greater force (not equal because then it's just a stalemate) and throw it into submission. The second part comes from the manga. Orochimaru used the Goyou Fuuin to seal the Kyuubi's chakra in the Forest of Death. Same goes for that "Seal Tag" Jiraiya gave to Kakashi after the timeskip and Yamato's "Surpression Jutsu".

[Wrath of the Uchiha]

-I can live with that then, even if it's another plot ability which would make Yamato's existance even less than worthless.

-OK sure, since it's all speculation anyway. I will agree that Sasuke-hime was able to surpress the Kyuubi's chakra at it's pre-tailed state but since neither of us can claim/prove the same/otherwise for the the other forms we may as well then quit dragging this anymore than necessary. So Sasuke "can" surpress the pre-tailed-mode but for the others we will have to wait (if Naruto ever enters those states anyway).

Agreed.

-The first part comes from a logical point of view. Think of surpression as another form of "pushing back" something. In order to stop it from moving you need to first stop it and then push back with greater force (not equal because then it's just a stalemate) and throw it into submission.

Oh cripes! It's just a manga, logical laws don't apply here, 80% chance of Kishi not following the rule :P

The second part comes from the manga. Orochimaru used the Goyou Fuuin to seal the Kyuubi's chakra in the Forest of Death. Same goes for that "Seal Tag" Jiraiya gave to Kakashi after the timeskip and Yamato's "Surpression Jutsu".

Gotcha.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Wrath of the Uchiha

Agreed.

Oh cripes! It's just a manga, logical laws don't apply here, 80% chance of Kishi not following the rule :P

Gotcha.

-Ok then.

-Yeah I know: "Logic has no place in manga" and I'd normally agree but with this one it's kind of weird. The only reason I attempt to use logic in this is because the manga itself takes the time to explain things in such detail that it seems probable at times. Oh what I wouldn't give for a Kage Bunshin and a Henge.

-Glad to know I was helpful.

[Suna no tate]

Originally Posted by Wrath of the Uchiha

The 9 tails and Naruto are different entities, it should be tremendously easier controlling Jinchuukris.
Same for Yamato

I see where you're going with this, but I would like to point out that the power of the 1st hokage was the ability to suppress the biju's chakra directly. That is if the 9 tails were in front of him, he could suppress the chakra of the 9 tails. That is the same power Yamato has, though whether or not it is diminished is up to speculation. Who's to say how well the 1st hokage could suppress the biju's chakra? If we don't know this we can't say how strong Yamato's is in comparison...

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

I see where you're going with this, but I would like to point out that the power of the 1st hokage was the ability to suppress the biju's chakra directly. That is if the 9 tails were in front of him, he could suppress the chakra of the 9 tails. That is the same power Yamato has, though whether or not it is diminished is up to speculation. Who's to say how well the 1st hokage could suppress the biju's chakra? If we don't know this we can't say how strong Yamato's is in comparison...

No speculations here, it was said by Yamato that his power over Bijuu wasn't as great as Shodaime and it was also said that the First Hokage could bind Bijuu to his will thanks to this power.

[Xrayz0r]

@KatonMakai:

"hahahaha"

You're a moron =D

Your comparison with Goku is dumb because in Dragonball Z it's all about power levels. Without high power level, DBZ char = weak, duh. No super sayan Goku = weak Goku.
Naruto isn't simply about brute force and loads of energy as proved very well by Shikamaru who can pwn ninja with chakra capicities 5 times bigger than his own with just one jutsu thus your Goku example = dumb. That's because Naruto is all about ninja that use techniques and are able to beat others by being good @ using them instead of simply bursting out power like a r3t4rd, as proved by Oro who can equally fight 4 tails while he's not even near that level of power.

Hence, you are dumb.

So far as "mediocre existance" goes, wtf you're even wtfdumber. If Kishimoto makes Kakashi and Yamato point out how Naruto doesn't need Kyuubi and will surpass Yondaime, that means he will.

Surpass Yondaime = not mediocre existance.

You annoy me because you post extremely dumb things and still act like you're right and everyone agrees with you, which obviously they don't because your arguments and comparisons don't make 1% sense = roflmao wtfpwned.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

@KatonMakai:

"hahahaha"

You're a moron =D

Your comparison with Goku is dumb because in Dragonball Z it's all about power levels. Without high power level, DBZ char = weak, duh. No super sayan Goku = weak Goku.
Naruto isn't simply about brute force and loads of energy as proved very well by Shikamaru who can pwn ninja with chakra capicities 5 times bigger than his own with just one jutsu thus your Goku example = dumb. That's because Naruto is all about ninja that use techniques and are able to beat others by being good @ using them instead of simply bursting out power like a r3t4rd, as proved by Oro who can equally fight 4 tails while he's not even near that level of power.

Hence, you are dumb.

So far as "mediocre existance" goes, wtf you're even wtfdumber. If Kishimoto makes Kakashi and Yamato point out how Naruto doesn't need Kyuubi and will surpass Yondaime, that means he will.

Surpass Yondaime = not mediocre existance.

-Man you certainly don't know when call it quits do you? Well that's ok, neither do I. Looks to me like you just want my attention. You in love with me or something ?

-Now you're calling me a moron again and yet you're the one not using proper English. Now if you're planning on calling me names you might want to stop posting words in "leet" and constant abbreviations.

-Now again you are mocking my Goku comparisson, why? You said it yourself, Goku without Super Saiyan is weak. For me that's the same for Naruto without the Kyuubi at this point in time. This is the concept that I am arguing, and Shikamaru has no place in this argument unless of course you want to tell me that he has a power-up state as well (same for Orochimaru). You cannot tell me that right now Naruto is at his peak in power either because that's just plain ignorance.

-"Hence, you are dumb". Marvelous, you can type at a junior high school level. There's hope for you yet. Maybe next time you'll type "Therefore you are mentally incapable..."

-Again you're using "If Kishimoto says this, if Kishimoto makes characters do that ect, ect" to base your arguments. But notice that little word if. Here I'll enlarge it: IF. Yeah what if Kishimoto says "Forget this I'm making him use the Kyuubi again, this time with a vengance, since his own power will never be enough" what will you argue then? This is why I told you, I hate using the author for my arguments because of the fact that authors change their minds quite often.
If you're going to convince me that Naruto is amazing without the Kyuubi then use facts not speculations of what the author might do. And by facts I mean things that happened in the manga up until now.

-I never said that surpassing Yondaime was a mediocre existance, I said that Naruto's future is going to be a mediocre existance if he cannot use the Kyuubi. Although this may not necessarilly be true I have seen enough of Kyuubi-less Naruto to know the probable outcome. Besides how can you be 100% positive that Naruto will surpass Yondaime? Has there been any evidence to prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that this is fact? And don't give me that whole "It's his destiny, his dream, and Kishimoto's wish" because that's not going to work. Destinies change, dreams get crushed, and the authors change their minds all too often.

You annoy me because you post extremely dumb things and still act like you're right and everyone agrees with you, which obviously they don't because your arguments and comparisons don't make 1% sense = roflmao wtfpwned

-I annoy you huh? Well if that's the case then why did you reply to my post? Why not just stay away from me and ignore me? No one's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to respond to my comments you know.

[Suna no tate]

Originally Posted by Hunter

No speculations here, it was said by Yamato that his power over Bijuu wasn't as great as Shodaime and it was also said that the First Hokage could bind Bijuu to his will thanks to this power.

Haha! Thats exactly what I was saying! But thanks for the backup! Quite frankly, I'd like to learn more about the other kages. I mean the sand kazekages we've seen are pretty impressive, and I wonder what some other other kages present and past are like. I doubt all the mizukages use water techniqes, but if they did they must absolutely be amazing. Its a shame kishi is just like all the skinny, good looking girls I know... he's such a tease in that he'll bring something up and leave you hanging...

[Xrayz0r]

Originally Posted by KatonMakai

-Man you certainly don't know when call it quits do you? Well that's ok, neither do I. Looks to me like you just want my attention. You in love with me or something ?

Haha I decided to just go and quote that because it's so funny.

"hahahahaha, funny". (sarcasm)


KatonMakai teh AS comedian with 00ber unrivalled funneh jokes.

"r u in love w/ me or sumthin?"

Hahaha...classic.

Man youre so funny you should become online comedian.

You should work for AS and get paid cause you make the forum so funny everyone loves it here like they sign in after a hard dayz work and read all your funny jokes versus people who diss you cause according to you surpassing yondaime = mediocre exstance = lololol but it doesn't matter cause your jokes make up for it.

Am I in love with u or somthin? HAHAHAHA, good one!!!!

[haomaru]

To me sasuke stil exibits the same faults he had since the first debute, he is a genius, has lot of potential he is one of the strongest in the manga as of now. His biggest fault its naruto's biggest strength. As was said by naruto some time ago even if some one cuts his legs and arms he will bite the guy to death, that's whats missing in sasuke if he sees he has no chance against itachi for example he will give up the fight, as for naruto will fight till the end, and do amazing things when forced to.

[Suna no tate]

What? Betraying his village and trying to kill his best friend 2x in the quest for power isn't proof of his resolve?

[haomaru]

to put it simply,i think if sasuke was fighting someone aparentley stronger than him, he would try to avoid the fight as for naruto wouldn't and would die trying if he had to.

[Luminion Lancer]

Xrayz0r

-I'll ask you again, how can you be absolutelly sure that Naruto will surpass Yondaime Hokage? Can you see the future or something to that extent or are you just pulling my leg? Look I'll explain it again: I claim that as long as Naruto refuses to use the Kyuubi for his benefit all he will have going for him is a mediocre existance. Unless he proves to be amazing on his own soon my opinion on this matter will not change, it's as simple as that.

-On a side note: the fact that I use humor in my posts should at least tell you that I'm at least a half-way decent person. Besides, while I can be serious I choose not to because I find that when I'm serious I'm a total bore. So at the very least I'm glad you didn't take my joke as an insult (it was never intended to begin with), which some people would have.

[Neji_Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by miss rave

Then you'd be wrong, tails or no tails when kyuubi gives Naruto chakra it's leaked through the seal, Sasuke cuts that link off in turn sealing the chakra.

The Hakke Fuu In was designed by Yondaime to not only block Kyuubi's chakra but also merge it with Naruto's. As long as the seal exist, Naruto's chakra will always outrun Kyuubi's so that Kyuubi couldn't take control. That's why when Jiraiya first trained NAruto to the summoning of Gamabunta, he ordered Naruto to use all of his original chakra so that Kyuubi's could flow freely and hence be used by Naruto. Indeed the theory of Sasuke cutting through that link and blocking the flow as Oro did using Godai In could be justified...but I think that there's something else within Sasuke's blood that could surpress Kyuubi's chakra...