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View Poll Results: Which type of subs do you like the most
Freely translated and good english 27 35.53%
most accurate and near to the original 40 52.63%
minimalistic ones 2 2.63%
I don't care all i understand is fine 6 7.89%
is there a way to tell oO 1 1.32%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-03-12, 19:56   Link #101
Raiga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalis View Post
To me, a line of text at a 10-pixel margin takes up the exact same amount of space as a line at 40 pixels. Making the margins too small (like most fansubs do) introduces two problems:

1) Subtitles set too low will get cut off by overscan on old CRT TVs. Yeah, not so many people have CRTs anymore. But screwing over the less fortunate for one's own convenience is just plain selfish.
2) Subtitles set too low force the viewer to constantly bounce their eyes down and up between the subtitles and the main action areas of the image, thus increasing the chance that they'll miss out on something. Same goes for horizontal margins -- long single lines of text that span the entire width of the screen should be broken up into two shorter lines in the center of the screen. This allows viewers to read them faster with minimal side-to-side eye scanning movement. Most DVDs follow this principle, most fansubs do not.

Yes, some DVDs take margins too far, but there needs to be a middle ground.
That's fair enough, I can see that, but while it does take up the same amount of space I still believe that excessive margins obstruct the video. The text may be taking up the same amount of space, but the part of the video that's in the margin is cut off from the rest, orphaned if you will, so it's no longer really doing anything and the viewer doesn't process it as well. I get the rest of your points, though, I suppose I'm just used to reading lower subtitles. I'm not saying tiny margin either, I guess my "middle ground" is just different from the licensors'. :\

As for some of the translation, I suppose stuff like Yuki's less techno technobabble could be attributed to font size issues (that's interesting too, I hadn't considered how that could affect the script) but there was stuff that was just plain wrong, native speaker translator or not. Like Haruhi's "We're changing." We? You and who else? Isn't Mikuru already changed? You don't mean, "I'm changing"?

I mean, stuff like using the wrong implied subject, that's just carelessness, a matter of subbing to the audio without paying attention to what's actually happening in the video. How much trouble would a quality control step be?
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Old 2010-03-13, 18:43   Link #102
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
I'd prefer honorifics left out than trying to translate them. Nobody in America calls a person Mr./Mrs. <first name>. It sounds horribly awkward.

If I'm typesetting something, if a character says "Orihara-san" that would unawkwardly translate to Mr. Orihara. But if a character says, "Izaya-san" that doesn't work the same way. Mr. Bob or Mrs. Mary sounds... childish.

So if I'm doing subbing work, I'll omit suffixes unless it's necessary. I'll straight across transfer in the case of nicknames (i.e. Ritsu's nickname "Ricchan" in K-ON!) but otherwise, deleted unless the context deems an English honorific wouldn't be awkward.
I would agree here. You are translating it to English, after all.
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Old 2010-03-13, 20:50   Link #103
Schneizel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
I'd prefer honorifics left out than trying to translate them. Nobody in America calls a person Mr./Mrs. <first name>. It sounds horribly awkward.

If I'm typesetting something, if a character says "Orihara-san" that would unawkwardly translate to Mr. Orihara. But if a character says, "Izaya-san" that doesn't work the same way. Mr. Bob or Mrs. Mary sounds... childish.
Similarly, no one runs around saying "Big brother Bob" (bobuniisan) or just "Big brother" (niisan) or "HONORABLE ELDER BROTHER BOB" (bobuoniisama), they just say the persons first name.
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Old 2010-03-15, 13:37   Link #104
Kikuchi
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I'm in the Freely translated and good english camp. French in my case. Like Zalis, I think it doesn't clash in any way with Accurate and close to the original.

In fact, I'm one of those people who think than subs should be as in-intrusive as possible. Not visually (well, that too), but in the script.
Subs must be able to convey the original meaning in a way that it's perfectly natural for someone whose main language is english (or whatever the language in which the subs are). Some adaptation is needed. And no, it doesn't mean that the new text will be inaccurate. Not if the translator or the editor does its job.

I saw a good example in the first pages about how a "Be quiet!" could be turned in "Shut the fuck up" should it be in-character.
Retooling the script and doing some characterization doesn't have anything to do "thinking you're better that the script writer". It's a REQUIRED skill. Any translator should be a decent writer himself, or his translated script will end up with no flavor... or full of japanese words and honorifics, which are totally uncalled for.

In the end, I'll say it's up to anyone preference. But as someone who likes both both my language (french) and japanese, I can't really understand why anyone would rage upon a good translation, with good french (or english) grammar and a script understandable for everyone.
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Old 2010-03-15, 15:24   Link #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikuchi View Post

In the end, I'll say it's up to anyone preference. But as someone who likes both both my language (french) and japanese, I can't really understand why anyone would rage upon a good translation, with good french (or english) grammar and a script understandable for everyone.
Yea, I really don't think anyone should bitch about something that's mostly free, unless they want to learn Japanese themselves. I've never came across a sub that had so many errors it was impossible to read. Many subs have done an anime a better service than the "official" subs/dubs

As for honorifics and other Japanese words such as onii that sometimes may not translate directly over, I really don't care for them either. Subs are just translations, not lessons in Japanese culture and language. Mostly, I think the only things that should be left in Japanese are proper nouns, but whatever. It's not going to stop me from watching it.
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Old 2010-03-15, 15:31   Link #106
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I didn't mean to vote this one - 'I don't care all i understand is fine' - I understood the meaning after I finished reading it. As long as there aren't excessive typos and the phrases are somewhat accurate, I can tolerate it.
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Old 2010-03-15, 15:35   Link #107
ChainLegacy
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I'm not too picky. As long as it is intelligible and essentially accurate you won't find me complaining. Though for certain shows with a lot of cultural terms high quality subs might be necessary.

to the rep query: yeah, high quality subs, as in those that have enough extra details and attention to cultural context to be intelligible. As others have stated you should just ask it in the topic, it's much harder to communicate with the method you employ.

Last edited by ChainLegacy; 2010-03-15 at 16:59.
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