Mahouka - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by guestuser

what are u talking about i mean how many people will actually work with the yotsuba which symbolize death in their name(japan is also supersitous) so they properly wont even accept the job even if they offer them

Anyone with the ambition to work for a prestigious and powerful family.

And superstition? Really? You think people are going to refuse to work for them because they've got "four" in their name? Like, say, Four Leaves Technology?

and u have to be a magician

We don't know that.

so that narrow it down quite a bit and he handle their financial service pretty well

My point is, it's not that hard to find a financial manager.

and the yotsuba care for usefulness not if u hate them or not or have any underlining feeling of them so they will just use u like a pawn and discard u so that butler guy is very useful so they kept him

There's a difference between "useful" and "hard to replace". Take some random executive from some big company. They're almost all useful guys who've worked hard to get where they are... but they leave (for retirement or better jobs or whatever) and are replaced all the time. He's at that level. And I'm sure it's not hard to find some executive who's snooty about his position, either.

He's got a bit of "family retainer" in him rather than mere employee, but that's due to the peculiar circumstances of having an aristocracy around. That doesn't affect his replaceability all that much.

plus a real yotsuba servant have alot of pride in their name

So? You really think it's hard to find people who become all snobbish about their position?

And as a side note, would it kill you to use proper capitalization, punctuation, and spelling of the word "you"?

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

And if Tatsuya was an idiot MC he will be criticized for being an idiot MC but strangely enough girls fall for him.

Probably, yes.

They are equal partners,Tatsuya is still an employee of FLT even though it's owned by his familly(which was cut from the anime).Taurus creates the hardware from Tatsuya's theories and Tatsuya does the software,which was indicated in the ep.

Tatsuya's the super genius. The other guy is just good at his job. It's like Mozart and Salieri (please don't tell me about the historical reality), except instead of burning jealousy, you've got hero worship.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Which makes me ask the question since when LN lead characters have to be exonerated from criticism to be capable in the first place

I'm just saying. If people don't like Tatsuya's genius, learning he's got a flunky to do the tedious legwork of R&D is going to change squat.

And please don't pretend that "capable" is anywhere close to adequate to describe Tatsuya. If nothing else, it doesn't have to be either invincible genius or good-for-nothing moron. There's a whole spectrum between the two.

For myself... I can live with it, but it'd certainly be easier to swallow if "genius" was his day job. Instead of something he does the way I post in anime forums...

Is this something we have to go through in the next 15 episode, too?

Maybe.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And superstition? Really? You think people are going to work for them because they've got "four" in their name? Like, say, Four Leaves Technology?

It's an issue that's built around homonyms - it's the Japanese '4' that people have problems with, because one pronunciation for '4', "shi," is the same as the pronunciation for 'death'.

Hence, they won't have a problem with the English word 'Four'.

(And Japanese (and Chinese) people probably have a much higher sensitivity to superstition than secular people in the West, if only because there are quite a few occasions where we actively avoid using '4'. For example, we avoid giving money at weddings / New Year in sums that have the digit '4' in it (we try to give money in sums that contain the number '8' instead). Apparently, there are even buildings in Japan that skip the fourth level because of this. '9' is also avoided - to a lesser extent - because one pronunciation for it, "ku," is the same as that for the word 'suffering'. In contrast, '13', Friday the 13th etc, mean little to them outside of the pop culture they get from the west.)

So yes, a valid argument for the world of Mahouka, whether you like it or not.)

Though personally, I reckon that a more important reason that they'd have difficulty replacing this butler is the issue of trust. Given the secrecy that envelops the house, how easy can it be to find someone that they can trust with their secrets?

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Tatsuya's the super genius. The other guy is just good at his job. It's like Mozart and Salieri (please don't tell me about the historical reality), except instead of burning jealousy, you've got hero worship.

But if Tatsuya's the super genius, why do they treat him like crap? Given that his father just stood there and let Aoki completely ignore him and diss him, it looks like it's something completely acceptable in the Yotsuba family. To me, that raises questions about what exactly it is the family values in their magicians, which I assume to be related to whatever it is that the magic education system believes is valuable (casting speed, the scale of the spell and the ability of the person to 'rewrite information' with their magic (ep. 3)). Doesn't look like super intelligence or high psion count - which Ushiyama's words suggest is a trait of both Miyuki and Tatsuya - count for much.

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by karice67

It's an issue that's built around homonyms - it's the Japanese '4' that people have problems with, because the pronunciation "shi" is the same as the pronunciation for 'death'.

Hence, they won't have a problem with the English word 'Four'.

(And Japanese (and Chinese) people probably have a much higher sensitivity to superstition than secular people in the West, if only because there are quite a few occasions where we actively avoid using '4'. For example, we avoid giving money at weddings / New Year that in sums that have the digit '4' in it (we try to give money in sums using the number '8' instead). Apparently, there are even buildings in Japan that skip the fourth level because of this. Comparison for English might be the number 13.

So yes, a valid argument for the world of Mahouka, whether you like it or not.)


But if Tatsuya's the super genius, why do they treat him like crap? Given that his father just stood there and let Aoki completely ignore him and diss him, it looks like it's something completely acceptable in the Yotsuba family. To me, that raises questions about what exactly it is the family values in their magicians, which I assume to be related to whatever it is that the magic education system believes is valuable (casting speed, the scale of the spell and the ability of the person to 'rewrite information' with their magic (ep. 3)). Doesn't look like super intelligence or high psion count - which Ushiyama's words suggest is a trait of both Miyuki and Tatsuya - count for much.

You've pretty much nailed in imo. That's what it seems to be

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by karice67

It's an issue that's built around homonyms - it's the Japanese '4' that people have problems with, because the pronunciation "shi" is the same as the pronunciation for 'death'.

Hence, they won't have a problem with the English word 'Four'.

(And Japanese (and Chinese) people probably have a much higher sensitivity to superstition than secular people in the West, if only because there are quite a few occasions where we actively avoid using '4'. For example, we avoid giving money at weddings / New Year that in sums that have the digit '4' in it (we try to give money in sums using the number '8' instead). Apparently, there are even buildings in Japan that skip the fourth level because of this. Comparison for English might be the number 13.

So yes, a valid argument for the world of Mahouka, whether you like it or not.)

In that case, they're the "Yotsu"ba, not "Shi"ba.

And even if some people will refuse to work for them on that basis, I doubt they'll have real trouble finding good people.

But if Tatsuya's the super genius, why do they treat him like crap?

... Are you doubting he's a super genius?

The "why" is complex and more than a bit spoilerific. Not really germane anyway.

Originally Posted by karice67

Though personally, I reckon that a more important reason that they'd have difficulty replacing this butler is the issue of trust. Given the secrecy that envelops the house, how easy can it be to find someone that they can trust with their secrets?

They can promote a subordinate butler. They've got to have reserves. Redundancy.

My point about young graduates wasn't that they could replace the man immediately... but that they were the raw material from which a new butler could be made.

Or heck, now that I think of it - maybe that butler comes from a subordinate family... from which other butlers could be extracted, at need.

[zerozeronine]

@Anh_Minh

It's not that easy hiring a financial manager for the family

Spoiler for for rhe Yotsuba:

They are a very secretive family,aside from the head Maya and her guardian/butler and maybe a few others no other family member is known outside the family.so they will not just post ads that they are looking for employees.I doubt many FLT employees know that they are working for a Yotsuba company.The siblings father uses a fake surname,which was cut from the anime.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

That he is only half of Taurus Silver?With almost every non LN reader bashing Tatsuya of being such a genius engineer and that he was doing all of it by himself?

Don't be mistaken. Tatsuya's the one that makes the magic. Ushiyama is just the guy who provides the proper shoe to put on the foot.

Originally Posted by karice67

But if Tatsuya's the super genius, why do they treat him like crap? Given that his father just stood there and let Aoki completely ignore him and diss him, it looks like it's something completely acceptable in the Yotsuba family. To me, that raises questions about what exactly it is the family values in their magicians, which I assume to be related to whatever it is that the magic education system believes is valuable (casting speed, the scale of the spell and the ability of the person to 'rewrite information' with their magic (ep. 3)). Doesn't look like super intelligence or high psion count - which Ushiyama's words suggest is a trait of both Miyuki and Tatsuya - count for much.

You are acting under some misconceptions there. Perhaps you forgot that Maya, the head of the Yotsuba, is his aunt? Which means his mother was a Yotsuba? Which would imply that his father isn't a Yotsuba by blood?

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

In that case, they're the "Yotsu"ba, not "Shi"ba.

Doesn't matter, because the character for '4' is in their name. Japanese and Chinese people will automatically associate that with 'death'. The company 'Four Leaves technology' doesn't have the character or number for '4' in its name - it's in English, and it's pronounced 'four', so there's far less of a stigma attached.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And even if some people will refuse to work for them on that basis, I doubt they'll have real trouble finding good people.

And maybe their father and aunt (who I assume are the ones who have hired and retained Aoki) are happy with his work and his attitude?

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

... Are you doubting he's a super genius?

Nope. But that's not the point that the show/story is raising, is it?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

@Anh_Minh

It's not that easy hiring a financial manager for the family

Spoiler for for rhe Yotsuba:

They are a very secretive family,aside from the head Maya and her guardian/butler and maybe a few others no other family member is known outside the family.so they will not just post ads that they are looking for employees.I doubt many FLT employees know that they are working for a Yotsuba company.The siblings father uses a fake surname,which was cut from the anime.

Spoiler for answer:

The father... and lots of executives from big companies. It's apparently standard procedure there.

And they must regularly lose people (to old age if nothing else). It follows they must regularly recruit people.

Originally Posted by karice67

And maybe their father and aunt (who I assume are the ones who have hired and retained Aoki) are happy with his work and his attitude?

No doubt they are. But I'm just saying, if they had to choose between him and Tatsuya, I believe the rational thing would be to keep the goose that lays golden eggs.

They don't have to choose, and as long as they avoid giving Miyuki too many reasons to turn that butler into popsicle, they won't have to choose. But if they did.

[millie10468]

Originally Posted by karice67

But if Tatsuya's the super genius, why do they treat him like crap? Given that his father just stood there and let Aoki completely ignore him and diss him, it looks like it's something completely acceptable in the Yotsuba family. To me, that raises questions about what exactly it is the family values in their magicians, which I assume to be related to whatever it is that the magic education system believes is valuable (casting speed, the scale of the spell and the ability of the person to 'rewrite information' with their magic (ep. 3)). Doesn't look like super intelligence or high psion count - which Ushiyama's words suggest is a trait of both Miyuki and Tatsuya - count for much.

This is the first time I've felt that the anime is doing its job decently, the fact that an anime-only viewer (at least I'm assuming you are) was able to pick up on this perfectly. Was it hard? Or can anyone who tries get it?

[karice67]

Originally Posted by bakato

You are acting under some misconceptions there. Perhaps you forgot that Maya, the head of the Yotsuba, is his aunt? Which means his mother was a Yotsuba? Which would imply that his father isn't a Yotsuba by blood?

Oh, I did forget that.

But wouldn't he still have some say in who works for him?
...or maybe not, if Aoki is hired by Maya to keep track of him in the first place... *shrugs* I'm not fussed either way though.

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Spoiler for answer:

The father... and lots of executives from big companies. It's apparently standard procedure there.

And they must regularly lose people (to old age if nothing else). It follows they must regularly recruit people.

AS much as your trying to go with your debate the simple fact is no they don't necessarily regularly recruit people. It's much like a exclusive golfing club, you can't just get in.

[guestuser]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Spoiler for answer:

The father... and lots of executives from big companies. It's apparently standard procedure there.

And they must regularly lose people (to old age if nothing else). It follows they must regularly recruit people.

for a company that is outside of the main family yes but for the main family it is not that easy to replace since they are the people running the family.

[Stanelis]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

Right. So it's a false choice to claim that someone who dislikes Tatsuya does so because they dislike competent leads and only enjoy self-insert losers. My post was directed at The_Green_One.

Just watch Mahouka as you would watch a comics inspired movie or would read a comics. You wouldn't complain that spiderman/Superman/Tony stark/any super hero have specials powers, in mahouka, it's really the same stuff.

Actually, the anime is better balanced than most comics books because most characters have powers.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Spoiler for answer:

The father... and lots of executives from big companies. It's apparently standard procedure there.

And they must regularly lose people (to old age if nothing else). It follows they must regularly recruit people.

Spoiler for for father:

The father is not a Yotsuba and the Yotsuba doesn't seem to care about him,aside from business and just let him elope with his lover.FLT employee's aside we are talking about Aoki right?Someone who directly works for the family and considered 4th in line in authority,aside from that he's very loyal to the family and Maya doesn't have a problem with his work.

Spoiler for Tatsuya's role in the family:

He's not considered part of the family,being as only a guardian/servant of Miyuki,so Aoki's response was kind of correct,but the only problem is Miyuki doesn't treat her brother as a lowly servant,so her anger is also understandable.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

No doubt they are. But I'm just saying, if they had to choose between him and Tatsuya, I believe the rational thing would be to keep the goose that lays golden eggs.

They don't have to choose, and as long as they avoid giving Miyuki too many reasons to turn that butler into popsicle, they won't have to choose. But if they did.

Assuming they actually value Tatsuya for those skills. I'm not entirely sure they do, given the way that his aunt and this butler have spoken about him.

[kagato3]

We know Tatsuya and his father aren't exactly on the best of terms right now. Something about him turning down a job he offered to set him up with to go to high school, that Miyuki even admits he doesn't need..

It's pertty clear the job was to be in charge of that research lab full time. Not exactly a sign of disrespect since he is still doing these thing on his own. Nor is it like Tatsuya needed any help against the butler. His father did step in once thing started drifting to being about Tatsuya's mother but the only context we have is that he believes Tatsuya has reason to hate his mother

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by kagato3

We know Tatsuya and his father aren't exactly on the best of terms right now. Something about him turning down a job he offered to set him up with to go to high school, that Miyuki even admits he doesn't need..

It's pertty clear the job was to be in charge of that research lab full time. Not exactly a sign of disrespect since he is still doing these thing on his own. Nor is it like Tatsuya needed any help against the butler. His father did step in once thing started drifting to being about Tatsuya's mother but the only context we have is that he believes Tatsuya has reason to hate his mother

Tatsuya can't hate his mother though, he said he can't hate anything basically.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by kagato3

We know Tatsuya and his father aren't exactly on the best of terms right now. Something about him turning down a job he offered to set him up with to go to high school, that Miyuki even admits he doesn't need..

It's pertty clear the job was to be in charge of that research lab full time. Not exactly a sign of disrespect since he is still doing these thing on his own. Nor is it like Tatsuya needed any help against the butler. His father did step in once thing started drifting to being about Tatsuya's mother but the only context we have is that he believes Tatsuya has reason to hate his mother

They did cut out Tatsuya's thoughts on why their father step in,sight,and it'll just take probably 20 seconds.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by karice67

To me, that raises questions about what exactly it is the family values in their magicians, which I assume to be related to whatever it is that the magic education system believes is valuable (casting speed, the scale of the spell and the ability of the person to 'rewrite information' with their magic (ep. 3)). Doesn't look like super intelligence or high psion count - which Ushiyama's words suggest is a trait of both Miyuki and Tatsuya - count for much.

Couldn't have said it any better. Although it is clear that Miyuki is valued much more than Tatsuya. While the latter is basically treated like a tool, the former is a candidate for succession. Moreoever the experimentation apparently done on Tatsuya is worth pondering. Question is, did his mother work on him because she as a member of the Yotsuba believed he had special potential, or was it the other way round that she believed he lacked something and was therefore also treating him like a tool to be shaped and used?

[bakato]

Originally Posted by karice67

Oh, I did forget that.

But wouldn't he still have some say in who works for him?
...or maybe not, if Aoki is hired by Maya to keep track of him in the first place... *shrugs* I'm not fussed either way though.

Oh come on. Did you even see this guy unable to properly talk to his own son? It's fairly evident he lacks a spine.