[Manga] Chapter 331 Discussion

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

Lol, ok lets be fair Tsunade is no where near stupid, Naruto manga is not bleach you cant determine who's who by telling their Chakra (Signature Reiatsu), the only way to know a Henge is false is if its done incorrectly EX: Cut's, Mark's, Scar's, Pouch. Thing's that should be there are not or things that should be in one place is in another place. Acting differently, voice, or simple little things that people notice that were not there before.

It's been 3 years Naruto is more powerful, smarter, and is perfect at Henge which is a beginner jutsu of all ninja's its not like its a S class Jutsu. Remember the OLD OLD Naruto and Kiba fight? Everyone including the 3rd was fooled when Naruto turned in to Akamaru it even made kiba think his nose was wrong, the eyes see and the mind believes don’t underestimate the power of sight/observation or in this case, it can be a bad thing. Shikamaru might have noticed it was Naruto cause his IQ is over 200 and who knows after 3 years where it is at right now, his power of observation is beyond any I'm sure, (excluding Sharingan and Byakugan) that might be why he said "That Naruto...". Tsunade had allot on her mind I doubt she even considered the factor that it might be Naruto in disguise NONE of us considered this theory or even thought about it until

Zero pointed it out, so yea being the Hokage and all I'm sure she had enough on her mind as is.

In any case this could be false but as I stated earlier this would explain allot of things, Kakashi's Hand, Why Kakashi asked Shikamaru what the plan was, Why Shikamaru said listen carefully, Why Shikamaru went "That Naruto...", Why Kakashi went against Tsunade which was unlike him. Why Kakashi overlooked the confrontation with Ino about what happened to his hand etc etc...

-Ok, point taken and noted sir. Yeah I must admit I was too rash in my opinion of Tsunade's decision and reaction. I completely overlooked the recent events that had occured and the effect they had on Tsunade. I'm sorry, but I guess it must be because I'm just so used to seeing how Sandaime Hokage handled things. You gotta admit he certainly handled things like a true leader, always staed calm and made the toughest decisions seem (in my opinion) easy. When people found out Orochimaru was invading Konoha he was one of the few that remained calm and din't get a panic attack. But Tsunade isn't Sandaime so I really shouldn't compare them to one another. Different people have different methods, minds, and feelings after all.

-You know you got a point about all those coincidances/hints. This whole "Kakashi is Naruto using Henge" seems plausible when you interpert them the way you have. But interpertations work differently for others as well. While I won't deny the possibility of Kakashi being Naruto in disguise I'm also allowed to have my doubts. But it's possible I'll give you that much.

[Nuu]

well only 2 of the people in konoha have seen nartuo use a busshin to do recon...... so its possible that right after the funeral they went to naruto and came up with the plan before hand....we dont know but the likely hood of this is possible or for all we know there are 3 busshins doing the trainign with kakashi and tenzo

[Ashura3]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

Ok, I already acknowledged that, its only reasonable/common sense that he would ask Shikamaru first even if he had a plan. You are overlooking something, Kakashi got there when Shikamaru and Tsunade's talk was at ending while Shikmaru mentioned that he had a plan right at the start. So if it was Kakashi then he would say "Ok here is the plan" because he never herd Shikamaru say he had a plan.

Unless you want to argue that Kakashi was hiding in the shadow's the whole conversation which is also a possibility, hence why I'm mentioning it. Just remember these are all speculations I'm not saying its a sure thing, its JUST another possibility.




Oh really? Ok lets see here...

Spoiler:

My mistake on the intelligence reference. I was thinking of the second bell test with Naruto's comments.

But aside from that, I'm not overlooking anything with the first point. I made my statement thinking it would apply even if Kakashi didn't hear Shikamaru say he had a plan, considering again Shika's experience and reputation. Not to mention that the time spent between Shika revealing he had a plan and Kakashi revealing himself was extremely short (it's only a small 3 page difference), so even then it's still highly likely that Kakashi heard it regardless. I admit this is also speculation, but it's speculation that makes sense with the ideas behind it following a reasonable path.

Originally Posted by 0Taku0

You just answered your self "what you mean to say is that this could be considered as ANYONE " yes, as I said its all speculations and possibility's. As in, it is possible that it is Naruto because he asked what the plan was etc... 90% of the things on this board/ this post is either speculations, possibilities, or fanboy/fangirl fantasies.

Ah, but you didn't say "it's possible that it's Naruto because he asked it", you said:

Originally Posted by 0Taku0

but who’s most likely to ask something like that because he does not have a plan of his own? Naruto of course.

See the difference? My problem isn't that you stated the possibility, you don't see me denying that it could very well be true. My problem is the way you asserted the likelihood of the possibility, as if the end point of Kakashi=Naruto could somehow be proven by it. Which is simply not the case because again, who's most likely to ask? The answer isn't "Naruto of course" by any means. The answer is any ninja with a brain.

[Dauthi]

Originally Posted by Zerokule

I have an idea, what if it's naruto disguised as kakashi? He could be using a kage bushin and the other to transform into kakashi. That would explain why his hand is damaged. Sakura talked as if Kakashi is still with naruto, and shika sounded like he knew it is naruto disguised as kakashi.

Well there is a few things wrong with that :

#1 Naruto heals very fast.

Lets assume for some reason it is healing slow now...

#2 Why wouldn't he use henge to just cover up the injury anyways..

#3 Why would he bother when he is going to be their backup as soon as he finishes his jutsu anyways?

These are not completely definitive, and that idea is very intuitive i will admit.

[WLegend]

i think Kakashi got injured by Naruto's semi-new jutsu. When Kakashi wanted to test Naruto semi-new jutsu with Chidori, it already destroyed his Chidori, at the incomplete form, now Naruto need to finish it up in 24 hrs, pretty interesting.

[0rphen21]

i must agree that the more plausible answer to kakashi's hand is they tested the chidori to the new and improved rasengan that is if the one with shikamaru is really is kakashi but if it is naruto in henge and is impersonating kakashi and why his hand is still bandage up naruto heals abnormally fast but if the injury sustained is heavy it would still take time IMO i really liked the idea it just might be naruto or maybe it might be someone else entirely

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Ashura3

The answer isn't "Naruto of course" by any means. The answer is any ninja with a brain.

Point taken , my mistake for using those words, but realize that I was trying to insinuate that Kakashi was Naruto using Henge, not Kakashi is any ninja with a brain.

Originally Posted by Dauthi

Well there is a few things wrong with that :

#1 Naruto heals very fast.

#2 Why wouldn't he use henge to just cover up the injury anyways..

#3 Why would he bother when he is going to be their backup as soon as he finishes his jutsu anyways?

#1 I would say because the time that Naruto received news of Asuma's death and the time that Ino-Shika-Cho were leaving were very close 5~10 minute difference. Don’t forget when Naruto was practicing the Rasengan his wounds did not heal till he slept for one full day. He heals fast yes, but live Chakra in your hand with Wind Manipulation? A Complete Rasengan? That blew up in your hand god knows how many times, no way that would heal with in 10~20 minutes, is probably why he had it bandaged.

#2 Good point, but IF indeed that is Naruto, he’s not exactly the brightest star in the universe maybe he just didn’t think about it.

#3 He didn’t know that yet, Tsunade sent Sakura to inform Naruto of that after Ino-Shika-Cho + Kakashi left.

Originally Posted by 0rphen21

i must agree that the more plausible answer to kakashi's hand is they tested the chidori to the new and improved rasengan that is if the one with shikamaru is really is kakashi but if it is naruto in henge and is impersonating kakashi and why his hand is still bandage up naruto heals abnormally fast but if the injury sustained is heavy it would still take time IMO i really liked the idea it just might be naruto or maybe it might be someone else entirely

I don’t think so. I only say this because to test the Chidori against the new complete Rasengan means what? Naruto finished the Jutsu, if it turns out the Kakashi going with Ino-Shika-Cho is indeed the real Kakashi, then saying Kakashi hurt his hand testing the Chidori against the New Rasengan means Naruto mastered the Jutsu. So Naruto should already be heading off with Ino-Shika-Cho along with Kakashi, Yamato(Tenzo), Sai and Sakura. As for the healing thing look at my #1 explanation to Dauthi’s post.

KatonMakai your a good man, my hat's off to you (I don't ware a hat, just imagine I do for the sake of the effect). Please there is no need to say "I'm sorry" this is just a discussion between two fans . ˆ-ˆv Bui.

[tsurumaru]

Hmm I wonder if the next time we see Sasuke if Orochimaru will have already have taken over his body.......

Would that qualify as "shocking" enough?

[Ashura3]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

Point taken , my mistake for using those words, but realize that I was trying to insinuate that Kakashi was Naruto using Henge, not Kakashi is any ninja with a brain.

It'd be hard not to see you were insinuating that considering that's what the majority of your posts in this topic have been about so far. There was never any point where I denied that.

Glad we got through to each other.


On a separate note, am I the only who's afraid that Team 10 winning could tremendously shorten the power gap between Akatsuki and Konoha, if all Konoha had to use was the Shikamaru tactician trump card? I mentioned weeks back before Asuma died that the only way an Akatsuki encounter could be worthwhile is if they damaged a Konoha ninja, and they did that. A four man team of 3 chuunin and 1 jounin going out to assassinate them immediately after however, I didn't expect.

In my opinion, payback this soon will start to chip away at the untouchable threat of the Akatsuki too early in Part 2 (Sasori withholding).

[shikamaru_kun]

Maybe Naruto will leave some Kage Bunshin behind to finish the jutsu for him, that way he can leave with Team 10 and figure out the jutsu at the same time.

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Ashura3

On a separate note, am I the only who's afraid that Team 10 winning could tremendously shorten the power gap between Akatsuki and Konoha, if all Konoha had to use was the Shikamaru tactician trump card? I mentioned weeks back before Asuma died that the only way an Akatsuki encounter could be worthwhile is if they damaged a Konoha ninja, and they did that. A four man team of 3 chuunin and 1 jounin going out to assassinate them immediately after however, I didn't expect.

In my opinion, payback this soon will start to chip away at the untouchable threat of the Akatsuki too early in Part 2 (Sasori withholding).

I’m sure there are others who feel this way but, I for one don’t. Only because of who Hidan and Kazuku are,

1. No one important.
2. They have no secrets or hold any titles.
3. They have been alive long enough (By that I mean enough chapters, they need to be done away with so the story can move on)
4. They are weaker then the other Akatsuki members with the exception of Tobi.

I mean, we still have Itachi, Kisame, Deidara, Akatsuki Leader, the unknown Woman Akatsuki Member, Zetsu, Tobi and lets not forget Sasuke and Orochimaru to deal with.

Everyone of them have either a important role, some crazy secret (this is where Tobi comes in even though he is weak), seriously strong, or all of the above. Hidan and Kazuku are none of the above, they are strong but they are not all that. I mean we would all agree that Deidara is no punk or a weakling (Dude the guy beat Gaara!), and funny thing is Deidara respected Sasori like a Master. Knowing that Hidan has the slowest attacks in Akatsuki where does that put him ? In any case these are just speculations.

The Shikamaru Tactician is not really a trump card, to be honest he's only there because its only right, eye for an eye. As far as it goes, Asuma dieing never really bothered me much, but because he died its only reasonable/common sense that his students would get involved and seek revenge. Its not like Tsunade wanted to send them in the first place she tried to stop them, she wanted to make a team that would include Shikamaru is all.

In the end what I'm saying is Shikamaru is not really a Trump card, him being where he is right now along with Chouji and Ino is only common sense, and the payback is not too soon because Hidan and Kakuzu has had enough "screen" time and they need to go, Akatsuki also needs to get the message that "Konoha clans aint nothing to fuck with" and Konoha is gangsta!(lol ) This also show's off the new Jutsu's / things Ino-Shika-Cho has learned in the course of 3 years, because its time to focus on the other Ninja's of Konoha. If you noticed, ever since Naruto returned all they did was show the grown up forms of each person then jumped right in to Sasuke/Sai Arc.

To be honest I was hoping the "Back up" for Ino-Shika-Cho + Kakashi, would be Hinata, Kiba/Akamaru, Shino, and Kurenai, or at least Neji, Rock Lee, Tenten, and Gai (But they had their Screen time sort of) because Kishi need to show what the other Ninja's of Konoha has been doing these 3 years (At least I for one want to see/know). Now, if Kakashi does turn out to be Naruto, then this could be a possibility and the backup might become Hinata, Kiba/Akamaru, Shino, and Kurenai or Neji, Rock Lee, Tenten and Gai.

[Ashura3]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

I’m sure there are others who feel this way but, I for one don’t. Only because of who Hidan and Kazuku are,

1. No one important.
2. They have no secrets or hold any titles.
3. They have been alive long enough (By that I mean enough chapters, they need to be done away with so the story can move on)
4. They are weaker then the other Akatsuki members with the exception of Tobi.

1. The fact they are all in Akatsuki make them ALL potentially important, it all depends on how Kishi uses them.
2. As of now, they have no secrets we know of. Neither did Sasori till we learned the guy killed the Sand's 4th (i still hate the fact that he was killed so fast)
3. They have been along alive enough for your tastes maybe. I'm still curious as to how the interactions within Akatsuki amongt its members will play out. Kishi has barely touched on that sadly, but there's still room enough for more provided he doesn't kill them fast enough.
4. I don't particularly remember this being stated. Could you back it up with manga references like with the line about Kakashi's self proclaimed intelligence?

Provided Kishi does the story right, I'm in no hurry to start killing Akatsuki left and right.

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Ashura3

4. I don't particularly remember this being stated. Could you back it up with manga references like with the line about Kakashi's self proclaimed intelligence?

Provided Kishi does the story right, I'm in no hurry to start killing Akatsuki left and right.

Sure, here you go...

Spoiler:

Well even with that, I gave Hidan some slack and said I was just speculating. Then again, maybe I shouldn’t have, considering its from his own mouth. Don’t forget Hidan is not a long time member, he is a recent recruit to Akatsuki the AL says it him self. As for Kakuzu I'm just speculating (Which I did mention in my earlier post, then again now that I look at it considering Kakuzu complimented Hidan on “Having some moves“, being that Hidan him self admits his attacks are the slowest and least skilled, it kind of says Kakuzu is not all that compared to the other Akatsuki members either). Any way you look at it, even though it seems as if Hidan and Kakuzu's days are numbered you never know, so don’t count your chickens till they hatch. It could be Hidan dies and Kakuzu lives, or both die, or both live, or Kakuzu dies and Hidan lives.

There’s no real point in discussing this any further. When it comes down to it, it's all in the hands of Kishi and his pen or pencil. You feel it's too soon, I feel its perfect, You feel Hidan and Kakuzu are "somebody’s", I feel they are "nobody's". All in all, it does not really matter because what Kishi does in the end is all that matters.

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

I’m sure there are others who feel this way but, I for one don’t. Only because of who Hidan and Kazuku are,

1. No one important.
2. They have no secrets or hold any titles.
3. They have been alive long enough (By that I mean enough chapters, they need to be done away with so the story can move on)
4. They are weaker then the other Akatsuki members with the exception of Tobi.

I mean, we still have Itachi, Kisame, Deidara, Akatsuki Leader, the unknown Woman Akatsuki Member, Zetsu, Tobi and lets not forget Sasuke and Orochimaru to deal with.

Everyone of them have either a important role, some crazy secret (this is where Tobi comes in even though he is weak), seriously strong, or all of the above. Hidan and Kazuku are none of the above, they are strong but they are not all that. I mean we would all agree that Deidara is no punk or a weakling (Dude the guy beat Gaara!), and funny thing is Deidara respected Sasori like a Master. Knowing that Hidan has the slowest attacks in Akatsuki where does that put him ? In any case these are just speculations.

The Shikamaru Tactician is not really a trump card, to be honest he's only there because its only right, eye for an eye. As far as it goes, Asuma dieing never really bothered me much, but because he died its only reasonable/common sense that his students would get involved and seek revenge. Its not like Tsunade wanted to send them in the first place she tried to stop them, she wanted to make a team that would include Shikamaru is all.

In the end what I'm saying is Shikamaru is not really a Trump card, him being where he is right now along with Chouji and Ino is only common sense, and the payback is not too soon because Hidan and Kakuzu has had enough "screen" time and they need to go, Akatsuki also needs to get the message that "Konoha clans aint nothing to fuck with" and Konoha is gangsta!(lol ) This also show's off the new Jutsu's / things Ino-Shika-Cho has learned in the course of 3 years, because its time to focus on the other Ninja's of Konoha. If you noticed, ever since Naruto returned all they did was show the grown up forms of each person then jumped right in to Sasuke/Sai Arc.

To be honest I was hoping the "Back up" for Ino-Shika-Cho + Kakashi, would be Hinata, Kiba/Akamaru, Shino, and Kurenai, or at least Neji, Rock Lee, Tenten, and Gai (But they had their Screen time sort of) because Kishi need to show what the other Ninja's of Konoha has been doing these 3 years (At least I for one want to see/know). Now, if Kakashi does turn out to be Naruto, then this could be a possibility and the backup might become Hinata, Kiba/Akamaru, Shino, and Kurenai or Neji, Rock Lee, Tenten and Gai.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by miss rave

If the Kakashi is Naruto then Shikamaru is going to die most likely, so Shika fans should hope it's not.

Well, I rather have Shikamaru dying like a Man, than his body been taken by a Michael Jackson look alike…

[Sabaku Kyu]

I would say because the time that Naruto received news of Asuma's death and the time that Ino-Shika-Cho were leaving were very close 5~10 minute difference. Don’t forget when Naruto was practicing the Rasengan his wounds did not heal till he slept for one full day. He heals fast yes, but live Chakra in your hand with Wind Manipulation? A Complete Rasengan? That blew up in your hand god knows how many times, no way that would heal with in 10~20 minutes, is probably why he had it bandaged

I'd say that at least a couple days have passed since Asuma's death and Team 10's departure. The funeral alone takes a few days to prepare and Shikamaru had time to learn adding elemental manipulation to Asuma's blades. So a few days have passed since we last saw Naruto training. Of course, that doesn't mean he hasn't trained recently since then. He might've injured his hand during that time. But this does bring up the question: if Naruto was busy training, how would he even know about Ino-Shika-Cho's intentions to take on Akatsuki?

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

Everyone of them have either a important role, some crazy secret (this is where Tobi comes in even though he is weak), seriously strong, or all of the above.

I dunno about Tobi being weak. I have a feeling he will prove to be a difficult opponent. Maybe more so than Hidan or Kakuzu. When characters act "dumb" like he does it usually means that: a) they are truly worthless idiots b) they are so strong that they don't care about acting seriously. Considering that Tobi is a member of Akatsuki (though he is a replacement) the second option seems more likely to me. His battle with the Sanbi was mostly for comedic effect.We have yet to see him in a battle that he takes seriously.

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I'd say that at least a couple days have passed since Asuma's death and Team 10's departure. The funeral alone takes a few days to prepare and Shikamaru had time to learn adding elemental manipulation to Asuma's blades. So a few days have passed since we last saw Naruto training. Of course, that doesn't mean he hasn't trained recently since then. He might've injured his hand during that time. But this does bring up the question: if Naruto was busy training, how would he even know about Ino-Shika-Cho's intentions to take on Akatsuki?

True, true, does this not indicate even more that Kakashi might be Naruto in disguise? At least a couple of day's has passed, at the point when Naruto finds out Asuma's death he already had the trick down for his new Jutsu (2 KB's). So if a couple of days passed since then, I think Naruto completed the Jutsu dont you think so? Also the news of Asuma's death could have influenced him in to completing it faster (by force, and overwork). Which could explain the extensive damage to his hand.

You did bring up the question how ever, of how would he even know about Ino-Shika-Cho's intentions. There could be many way's, over hearing, or maybe he was trying to go off by him self and saw Ino-Shika-Cho + Tsunade and over heard the conversation between them, and decided to change in to Kakashi to help team 10 out of the bind they are in. If indeed Kakashi is Naruto, then this question will probably be answered next chapter.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I dunno about Tobi being weak. I have a feeling he will prove to be a difficult opponent. Maybe more so than Hidan or Kakuzu. When characters act "dumb" like he does it usually means that: a) they are truly worthless idiots b) they are so strong that they don't care about acting seriously. Considering that Tobi is a member of Akatsuki (though he is a replacement) the second option seems more likely to me. His battle with the Sanbi was mostly for comedic effect.We have yet to see him in a battle that he takes seriously.

Yea, maybe I jumped the gun a bit by calling Tobi him weak, we really don’t know much about him yet. He could turn out to be Otobi (50-50) and just start kicking ass and taking names left and right. So yea, I do agree he could be just like how Kabuto was, acting weak, being stupid, while slowly observing everything lol kinda makes him sound like a evil mastermind. *Sigh* Its too bad though I was looking forward to some SakuNaru/NaruSaku moments, but if Kakashi is Naruto in disguise it wont happen ToT;. Any way, I need to sleep before, I nosedive in to my keyboard. (*_ _)zZz..

[rman0099]

Originally Posted by Ashura3

A four man team of 3 chuunin and 1 jounin going out to assassinate them immediately after however, I didn't expect.

I thought Shika was now a jounin. When they re-introduced all of the character @ the start of Naruto 2, wasn't Shikamaru and Neji introduced as jounins?

Also, it could be very plausible that "Kakashi" is Naruto since he did injure his hand when originally learning rasengan. But then again it could be an injured Kakashi who tested rasengan again he powered up version. Most likely it is Kakashi and everyone is making too much out of Kakashi asking for an explanation. Everyone needs to hear a plan once before execution (telepathy hasn't been introduced yet). But we can be sure of this. If it is Naruto the plan is going to get messed up since Shika requires "learning a few patterns." Memory is not Narutos strong point.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by rman0099

I thought Shika was now a jounin. When they re-introduced all of the character @ the start of Naruto 2, wasn't Shikamaru and Neji introduced as jounins?

Nope, The only said to be Jounnin were Neeji and both Kankuro and Temary.

Everyone needs to hear a plan once before execution (telepathy hasn't been introduced yet).

Yes, Akatsuki already used telepathy.

[tramadrama]

I would love it if it were Naruto as a henge of Kakashi, but not for the other reasons that others have listed. For instance, WHY?

1. Why would Kakashi even be there? I'd like to think that Kakashi would be more interested in seeing a jutsu that even his own sensei couldn't complete to the very end.

2. The one jounin that would have more of a reason to go would be Kurenai. Either she really is pregnant or just overwhelmed that her man is gone.

3. This would be typical Naruto. His healing is messed up because of Yamato so it could be. The only thing Kakashi's been doing with his hand is reading CCP so I doubt he's testing an incomplete jutsu. So I don't see a reason for his hand to be bandaged, only Naruto.

4. They don't have that much time to wait for a damn jutsu to be complete before sending backup to aid in defeating Akatsuki. Death comes easy when fighting Akatsuki. So, if Naruto were in disguise, this would force team 7 to catch them and back them up a lot quicker.

But anyway, I would love to see it, but, knowing the flow of the manga recently, and the way Kakashi reacted at the funeral, it's probably Kakashi, sad to say.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by tramadrama

3. The only thing Kakashi's been doing with his hand is reading CCP so I doubt he's testing an incomplete jutsu.

Hmmmm, Reading it using his left hand, and his right hand injured because of Something else related to CCP....