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Old 2012-10-13, 09:30   Link #861
totoum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
But then again, if they started dating early on in the plot it could have actually made for a fun plot...
Raku and Chitoge being a pretend couple to keep a war from happening and all the while Raku was dating Kosaki for real. The time Raku spent with Chitoge pretending to date could easily allow for feelings to develop between the two making Raku torn between his two loves...add comedy and done well and it wouldn't even have to be that serious to be played out well.
Just because two characters are dating doesn't mean Raku couldn't start to develop feelings for another girl, especially in the situation they were in.
Darn it,I had the exact same plot idea but you beat me to it I would definatly have found this concept interesting.
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Old 2012-10-13, 10:00   Link #862
Dauerlutscher
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
I don't think people are getting what I'm saying...
I never said it couldn't be obvious that Chitoge was the final girl...I'm just saying that it would have been better for the story (for me at least) if the author focused on the other girls a bit more and made us doubt that fact at least once.
To me the romance side of this RomCom series has become incredibly boring, I'm really just here for the Comedy side by now.
I see. But i find stories like TLR with such a wishy washy characters incredible boring and annoying.
Do you seriously read TLR for the romance aspect?
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Old 2012-10-13, 10:30   Link #863
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Randrak42 but in most harem manga their is at least any development between MC and other girls... In Nisekoi development between Raku and Tsugumi or Mari was just only in first 1,2 chapters with them. After that there is nothing more. Ofc both girls fall in love with him more and more, but there is nothing from Raku... Im not talking that its not harem manga... It is, but only in name... If you focus only on romance part then its more love triangle that harem...

You forgot that Raku and Kosaki had mutual love in begining of series... Really if they would start dating it would be impossible for Chitoge to join the game... Gang wars, their parents, Mari, Tsugumi, that guy from Chitoge gang- nothing would matters... If Raku would know that his felings for Kosaki is mutual nothing would stop him from dating Kosaki and it would be end of manga- he is this kind of guy...

Somewhere after Chitoge birthday party manga started to have place for Kosaki development. But still it could be done only really careful and slowly- to not destroy all development Raku got with Chitoge... And only now Raku and Kosaki can start dating with Chitoge still in game... It would be interesting... Earlier with Raku personalty any bigger development with Kosaki would destroy any chances for other girls to get him. Thats why it was hard for author to make any moves there...

It would be interesting if Romeo and Juliet play would be big development between Raku and Kosaki. But thats probably will never happen...
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Old 2012-10-13, 10:35   Link #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher View Post
I see. But i find stories like TLR with such a wishy washy characters incredible boring and annoying.
Do you seriously read TLR for the romance aspect?
Originally I watched TLR for the Ecchi and Comedy of course, but as I read more I got attached to the characters, the Romance and other plots. It doesn't take the romance seriously at all most of the time, especially now in Darkness...though I'm mostly interested in the whole Yami past/Nemisis plot now (the ecchi is still very much welcome but I'll read it even without any by now).
TLR may not look like it with that mask of semi-gag and pure ecchi but when it gets actual plots going it knows what it does and does it well.

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Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Randrak42 but in most harem manga their is at least any development between MC and other girls... In Nisekoi development between Raku and Tsugumi or Mari was just only in first 1,2 chapters with them. After that there is nothing more. Ofc both girls fall in love with him more and more, but there is nothing from Raku... Im not talking that its not harem manga... It is, but only in name... If you focus only on romance part then its more love triangle that harem...
Since bloody when? Most of the harems I've mention have as much if not less romantic development between the MC and the other girls as Nisekoi...however they do it better and there's other factors in play beside to plot that take center stage.
If you focus only on the romance part you can very well take away Kosaki's part cause she as much a background haremett as the other three by now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
You forgot that Raku and Kosaki had mutual love in begining of series... Really if they would start dating it would be impossible for Chitoge to join the game... Gang wars, their parents, Mari, Tsugumi, that guy from Chitoge gang- nothing would matters... If Raku would know that his felings for Kosaki is mutual nothing would stop him from dating Kosaki and it would be end of manga- he is this kind of guy...

Somewhere after Chitoge birthday party manga started to have place for Kosaki development. But still it could be done only really careful and slowly- to not destroy all development Raku got with Chitoge... And only now Raku and Kosaki can start dating with Chitoge still in game... It would be interesting... Earlier with Raku personalty any bigger development with Kosaki would destroy any chances for other girls to get him. Thats why it was hard for author to make any moves there...

It would be interesting if Romeo and Juliet play would be big development between Raku and Kosaki. But thats probably will never happen...
So if someone is in love and in a mutual relationship with someone else, then it is impossible to develop romantic feelings for a another individual? Grow up will yah? If you ever find someone that says "I've never had feelings for someone other than my wife/lover." they are either lying, were never aware or denied it to themselves. This is especially true when you are forced to be with someone...and in this case pretend to be dating that someone. Loving someone does not mean you cannot love someone else as well.

And by your logic...if Raku was dating Kosaki by the time Chitoge showed up, he would refuse to pretend to date her...thus inciting a gang war between the two groups? Because that is clearly the kind of guy that Raku is...he would always sacrifice everyone else, even the lives of his "family" for his one true love...
I'll be over there banging my head against the wall...

Last edited by Randrak42; 2012-10-13 at 11:24.
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Old 2012-10-13, 12:44   Link #865
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Quote:
If you focus only on the romance part you can very well take away Kosaki's part cause she as much a background haremett as the other three by now.
Not really, because between them mutual feelings are already there. It was always just one little step to push them toward relationship. Its different issue that they never make that step...

Funny, you make list with examples of worst harem manga ever (ok Love Hina is average and Ai Kora could be good if not for end, but with this end its worthless sh1t) and its for you representation of harem genre which includes hundreds of titles? Good harem manga have developments with more then 1 girl. And isnt it what you was looking for? Manga with development with more then one girl and subtle sign that one of them will win in the end, isnt it?

Compare it wih series like Seitokai no Ichizon, Fujimura-kun Mates, Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai- see difference?

Omg we are talking here about fictional work, not about real people. MC in romances manga are specific. Raku isnt sb normal if he would date Kosaki from begining then it would be impossible to develop STRONGER feelings for Chitoge. Talking about others girls is useless, because even without relationship with Kosaki he still feel nothing more then friendship towards Mari or Tsugumi...

Quote:
This is especially true when you are forced to be with someone
Omg Raku was forced to date Chitoge, not Kosaki... Did you really read this manga? If yes then why are you using arguments from real life (not from manga) or out of place lines like this one above?

I never said that even if he would start relationship with Kosaki from begining (just being sure that its mutual feeling for them would be enough, they not need to start dating immediately) then he would not start fake relationship with Chitoge(only to prevent gang wars). I just said that in this situation even if he would develop any feelings toward Chitoge then it would be impossible for them to burgeon. See that even now its really hard for Raku to understand his real feelings... Then imagine how hard it would be if he would be mutual relationship with Kosaki for long time...
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Old 2012-10-13, 14:32   Link #866
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Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Not really, because between them mutual feelings are already there. It was always just one little step to push them toward relationship. Its different issue that they never make that step...
Considering Kosaki is nowhere near the final girl placement and that the author makes this fact pretty damn clear to us nearly every chapter...yes...she is more haremett than real love interest. His feelings for her mean nothing when the author keeps pushing RakuxChitoge in our face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Funny, you make list with examples of worst harem manga ever (ok Love Hina is average and Ai Kora could be good if not for end, but with this end its worthless sh1t) and its for you representation of harem genre which includes hundreds of titles? Good harem manga have developments with more then 1 girl. And isnt it what you was looking for? Manga with development with more then one girl and subtle sign that one of them will win in the end, isnt it?

Compare it wih series like Seitokai no Ichizon, Fujimura-kun Mates, Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai- see difference?
Opinions, everyone has their own.
I consider the manga I named to be rather good as well as the ones you mentioned (Though I haven't read Fujimura-kun Mates, have been meaning too though...) so who are you to tell me that the examples I listed are bad just because you didn't like them? Hell, Love Hina and Ai Kora were two of my favorite Harem manga.

Same goes for what makes a series a good or bad harem series. Some people think that shoving a bunch of girls in your face is enough, others believe deep relationships between the girls is most important. Personally I'm in between...hey I like a "large selection" of goodies but also a bit more of a connection with the girls but it varies on a case by case basis. Highschool DxD for example, the only real relationship development is between Rias and Issei yet it is played out well, we know from the beginning that he'll end up with Rias but it doesn't take away from the plot because the author does it well (And yes, hard to believe but I also watch read Highschool DxD for the plot D: OMG!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Omg we are talking here about fictional work, not about real people. MC in romances manga are specific. Raku isnt sb normal if he would date Kosaki from begining then it would be impossible to develop STRONGER feelings for Chitoge. Talking about others girls is useless, because even without relationship with Kosaki he still feel nothing more then friendship towards Mari or Tsugumi...
Not really impossible...I believe if the author wrote the story in that way not many (if any) would call bullshit (And please, you don't need to say that you would call BS...because of course you would, you can't go against your own argument now innit?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
Omg Raku was forced to date Chitoge, not Kosaki... Did you really read this manga? If yes then why are you using arguments from real life (not from manga) or out of place lines like this one above?
Yea...I'm gonna chalk this one up to your lack of understanding of the English language because even I have derp moments here and there while reading...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
I never said that even if he would start relationship with Kosaki from begining (just being sure that its mutual feeling for them would be enough, they not need to start dating immediately) then he would not start fake relationship with Chitoge(only to prevent gang wars). I just said that in this situation even if he would develop any feelings toward Chitoge then it would be impossible for them to burgeon. See that even now its really hard for Raku to understand his real feelings... Then imagine how hard it would be if he would be mutual relationship with Kosaki for long time...
You were the one saying that if Raku and Kosaki started dating early on that the manga would end. Considering the main tagline of the manga is Raku being forced to pretend to be dating Chitoge to prevent a gang war then by saying the manga would end would be saying that he would refuse. Hell, even him not having feelings for Chitoge but still forced to date her could bring about some nice moments xD
And again...not impossible.

I'm done arguing with you...it's obvious that neither of us will change our minds on the matter and continuing this will only lead to headaches and wasted time. Make your last counter argument as you wish...I'm not really going to respond anyway.
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Old 2012-10-13, 21:35   Link #867
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I come back from all night club party (ofc i drink a lot), then my answers can be not perfect ;p

Quote:
Considering Kosaki is nowhere near the final girl placement and that the author makes this fact pretty damn clear to us nearly every chapter...yes...she is more haremett than real love interest. His feelings for her mean nothing when the author keeps pushing RakuxChitoge in our face.
And? We knew that already from begining. Even in one shot author made it pretty obvious. If sb dont like it then should stop reading it after chapter 0... But it still not change fact that feelings between Kosaki and Raku is mutual from begining. Even after all this development with Chigote Raku still can hurt her badly just because "I have Onodera!!"... And that wasnt sth lightly. Chitoge got hit from him stright in the face... Its not sth you would answer to girl when she asking you seriously...

Quote:
Opinions, everyone has their own. (...)
All series you mentioned are average, at best... You have sth like anidb rating, for example- Rosario to Vampire (4.3/10); Ai Kora (4.48/10); TLR (4.26/10); Love Hina (6.53/10); HSDK (7.55/10). Its average rating from few thousands of people... Not only mine opinion...

I really liked AI Kora. It was good series with good development. And really you cant said that development in this series with other girls then Tenmaku was worser then in Nisekoi... MC develop feelings towars Tenmaku really late in series... But i really hate how author ended this manga... Everything was closed perfectly and author just destroy all in last chapter. I cant forgive him it...

And Love Hina... It was probably my first harem manga i ever read... And i liked this series... But its mostly only sentimental feelings... If you want to be obiective then this series is average, at best...

Quote:
Not really impossible...I believe if the author wrote the story in that way not many (if any) would call bullshit (And please, you don't need to say that you would call BS...because of course you would, you can't go against your own argument now innit?).
Try to answer to two questions- why Raku fall in love with Chitoge? And why she develop feelings for him? It wasnt just sexual attraction. He never cared about her half western beauty... Like i said earlier he could develop some feelings toward Chitoge but it would be impossible for them to burgeon. Even now its really hard for Raku to understand his real feelings... Then imagine how hard it would be if it would be mutual relationship with Kosaki for long time...

Quote:
You were the one saying that if Raku and Kosaki started dating early on that the manga would end. (...)
Ofc author still could make manga like this. But only with different genre. Maybe seinen about relationship between young teenegers- Raku and Kosaki. Making harem like this would be pointless.... From begining of this series Kosaki was just one little step from being in serious relationship with Raku... Just one little... Remember situation in school when she almost said that she is love with him? If she would just said it at that time then RakuxKosaki ending would be set in stone... Thats what i had in mind when i writed- manga would just end with this...
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Old 2012-10-14, 17:20   Link #868
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Yep this must be the ending
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Old 2012-10-14, 21:02   Link #869
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I like how they joke about the splash cover, and the 4koma of the Chitoge & Tsugumi cover

As for their dream.... Wonder if it's made because Onodera's popularity to serve as "consolation prize" because the main story goes to Chitoge end
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Old 2012-10-14, 21:15   Link #870
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Hahaha, excellent trolling.

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Originally Posted by bakAnki View Post
As for their dream.... Wonder if it's made because Onodera's popularity to serve as "consolation prize" because the main story goes to Chitoge end
This is the most likely possibility by far.
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Old 2012-10-14, 21:18   Link #871
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It's okay... even if fate forces Raku and Chitoge together, at least Kosaki can haunt Raku's dreams like a succubus.
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Old 2012-10-15, 03:03   Link #872
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Poor Raku waking up when the good part is about to start, Well for Kosaki good for her she saw more than what Raku dream.
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Old 2012-10-18, 10:49   Link #873
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Wow, she made a hole on the wall with her fist? Raku is sure strong
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Old 2012-10-18, 11:16   Link #874
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Ohhhh she's so lovely with a long hair
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Old 2012-10-18, 13:06   Link #875
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can't wait for it to be translated. I wonder how will react afterward because of that..critical attack.
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Old 2012-10-18, 13:07   Link #876
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I predict Raku will leave our Juliet on stage by herself and go find Beast Tsundere
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Old 2012-10-18, 23:06   Link #877
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Man Chitoge can't lie own to her feelings now she's definitely lonely without Raku. Kosaki looks so cute with long hair.
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Old 2012-10-23, 18:54   Link #878
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It seems that the translation for ch 47 is out but it's not imperial-scans that did it though

As much as I like Chitoge.. I think she's the one at wrong here in this chapter. At the very least, he wouldn't say anything like that if she didn't say those words to begin with. Of course the main problem also lays in Raku since he didn't realize her feelings...
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Old 2012-10-23, 20:44   Link #879
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Oh Raku. Don't feel so down. This is for your own good. Now, you can lovey dovey with your Onodera. Maybe you're down because you only see Onodera as a "crush" and not a love interest?

I'm disappointed lately with Marika's role. She's just used as a comic relief.
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Old 2012-10-23, 21:07   Link #880
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Marika and Tsugumi are just pure comic relief now.

Onodera is just the girl that has no chance in hell of winning.

Chitoge is just the final girl that's producing unnecessary drama.

I miss when I had fun reading this manga...now it's more out of habit and boredom (not even the funny over-the-top comedy saves it for me).
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