AnimeSuki Forums

Keroko · 2009-05-03, 19:18

Like others, I find it extremely ironic that when the elite finds something they can't steamroll, they are reduced to the same level of complaining as the people they look down upon.

Xacual · 2009-05-03, 19:44

Except the so called elites complaining is actually completely justified in this case. Ensidia and the other really big guilds will try and theorycraft tons of combinations to get a kill. If they come out and say what they did then you should be prepared to take them at their word, though I'll admit Ensidia has said some really stupid stuff in the past like calling druids useless back in TBC I think?. 2 minute Hodir is almost impossible like they said, comparing it to people who complain about normal mode stuff is not in anyway a fair thing to say.

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2009-05-03, 20:42

Yeah I'll give them the benefit of the doubt with Hodir. At the moment it is fairly improbable accordding to napkin mathcraft.

34,000,000hp / 120sec = 283,333 raid dps
284,333 / 22 = 12,878

So in that 2 minutes 22 dps class would be required to do 12,800 dps each. Which is definately impossible at the moment (although people can come close). But with full teir 8 I'd say it's up for debate, although locks wee theory crafted out at less I think. Even if it is possible the raid stacking is stupid. 22 dps in one raid is over the top. However if the timer was blown out to 2:30 the required dps is only 8000 odd.

My raid currently stacks like 3 tanks 5 healers and 17 dps in a general kind of setup. That sort of a setup would require 16,600 dps per person for a 2 min kill, and 11,100 dps for a 2:30 kill.

Never mind the questionable tactics they used that's a whole other can of worm. It really could be seen as double standard on blizzards part if they did take away that other guilds quest item for beating him pre-buff but not do the same to ensidia for using flower power.

An extra 30 seconds might be all that is needed for a more sane raid balance.

Still I would like to see the fight done on live conditions with ulduar gear and not the missmatch it will be at the moment. In the end mathcraft is no match for real data and that data is what blizzard listens to.

Never mind the questionable means they used, and the potential double standards from Blizzard. If the guild that originally beat him really had their quest item taken from them because he was being buffed, then ensidia should likewise suffer for using flower-power. No (significant) NPC buff that wasn't directly involved in the boss fight has ever been a legit use of game mechanics in Blizards rules, and has had people banned in the past!

Last Sinner · 2009-05-03, 20:49

There are two sides to that. Granted, Hodir is probably out of reach if you're in Naxx/Maly/OS gear and only done a couple of weeks in Ulduar. But maybe that is the whole point. That you can't just faceroll everything like last time. Hodir may have been an easybeat in non-Hard but in Hard, clearly he is is meant to be the gear check. Realistically, if Hodir is doing that to them, I'd hate to think what Algalon is like. It will be interesting to see whether Ensidia's protesting ends up falling flat or justified.

The gap between Normal and Hard is considerable. Freya on Normal is cake. But put her to Hard Mode...there are only six guilds that have beaten Freya on Hard Mode. Those Elders buff her big time and hit like freight trains themselves.

The alt/guest raid went very well this weekend. Downed Auriaya and rescued Hodir, Freya and Thorim. Don't think any of them required more than 5 attempts, which is darn good for a first round of tries. (And yet it took over 20 attempts to get our first Kologarn kill...still can't figure out why that was so much harder for us.) I got a very pleasant surprise when the random positions for the tier 8.5 pieces list were given out and I was somehow at #1 on the list! Which allowed me to get the piece I needed most, the helm from Thorim. Really stoked - it looks cool yet cute and I'm finally hit capped. Nice little twist of irony after chasing that 7.5 helm for months and missing it to get the first 8.5 helm in that group. Looking forward to seeing Mimiron next weekend.

Alaya · 2009-05-04, 05:51

Mage's helm reminds me of Evagelion (well I'm a mage wearing one too :P).

Last Sinner · 2009-05-04, 09:33

Actually, they reminded me of Voltron. Particularly since Mimiron has a Voltron phase.

Spoke to my guildies about the Hodir Hard Mode scenario. One of the leaders said casters in his 10 man run have managed to do around 10k on that fight sometimes. But there's a lot of ifs and buts, though. You need to have the light and fire buffs and you need them to not get Icicle that regularly. And from my experience so far, I hardly get to be in them before an Icicle comes. *shrug*

Evangelion Xgouki · 2009-05-04, 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensidia

This is not a World First, it has no meaning at all.

Wow...just wow. I really don't know what to say about this part of the post. To be able to take down Hodir on hard mode with basically Naxx/OS/Maly 25 gear alone is a challenge (as I would assume Blizz tuned hard mode for people at least 50% Ulduar 25 gear) but to say it has no meaning? I am so glad I am not in one of these guilds...

RWBladewing · 2009-05-04, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

Wow...just wow. I really don't know what to say about this part of the post. To be able to take down Hodir on hard mode with basically Naxx/OS/Maly 25 gear alone is a challenge (as I would assume Blizz tuned hard mode for people at least 50% Ulduar 25 gear) but to say it has no meaning? I am so glad I am not in one of these guilds...

They're saying it has no meaning because they had to exploit that buff to be able to down it. I know I'd feel the same way if my guild did that. I don't really care whether they were justified or not, or whether their complaint to Blizzard was really a sneaky ploy to get the buff removed and ensure themselves a head start over other guilds, as some have suggested; the fact is that Blizzard making gatekeeper bosses significantly harder, or even impossible in this case, after people have already downed them is just stupid. 50% or even 100% Ulduar gear isn't going to give someone over 12k dps either, most of it isn't even that big of an upgrade. Not to mention this fight also requires insane raid stacking to bring it anywhere near the realm of possibility, something Blizzard had outright said they wanted to avoid.

Knight Hawk · 2009-05-04, 21:42

Quote:

Hodir

o Hodir hard mode timer increased from 2 minutes to 3 minutes. This hotfix will be applied during maintenance for both US and EU (respectively).
Source

We all knew this was coming, now my guild can actually kill this guy when we get to him.

Oh Flower Power.

Xacual · 2009-05-04, 21:45

Yep definitely knew it was coming, I'm suprised they didn't just nerf it down to 2.5 minutes, but maybe even that would encourage raid stacking to some degree.

Knight Hawk · 2009-05-04, 21:51

^Yeah definitely odd since throughout the Wrath beta they wanted us NOT to stack, to the point of changing class abilities to discourage such. Algalon is still left, we'll see how that plays out.

EDIT:

Spoiler for Cluck, Cluck, Cluck!:

Orc riding that bad boy, definitely Badass. :P

Ithekro · 2009-05-04, 22:44

The Westfall Chicken got hit by the Gnomish World Enlarger.

Clarste · 2009-05-05, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The Westfall Chicken got hit by the Gnomish World Enlarger.

I'm pretty sure the World Enlarger makes things shrink.

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2009-05-05, 01:35

Not if it backfires and shrinks the world!

Ithekro · 2009-05-05, 02:19

Quote:

I'm pretty sure the World Enlarger makes things shrink.

Goblin propaganda.

Keroko · 2009-05-05, 04:09

I'm going to roll my eyes and laugh if suddenly every hardcore guild downs him on their first try and return to complain that 'raiding in WoW is still a joke.'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

I'm pretty sure the World Enlarger makes things shrink.

No no no, the World Enlarger grows everything but the wielder. That's how powerful Gnomish technology is!

Alaya · 2009-05-05, 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

I'm going to roll my eyes and laugh if suddenly every hardcore guild downs him on their first try and return to complain that 'raiding in WoW is still a joke.'

I really doubt that. Ensidia has already stated that Mimirron hard mode is a very challenging and fun encounter, even on par with Kil'Jaeden. And I don't think Yogg-Saron hard mode will be ever close to the word easy.

Hard modes are surely hard...

Last Sinner · 2009-05-05, 08:59

I think that's Nosauz's queue. :P

The loot quality on Hard Modes merits the efforts put in. Those that are going to be able to do the Hard Modes will reap the rewards.

4 Argent Tournament factions down, 1 more to go....

Evangelion Xgouki · 2009-05-05, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

4 Argent Tournament factions down, 1 more to go....

Yup, same here. And then another 100-something days to get enough Seals to get all the rewards

Knight Hawk · 2009-05-05, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlizzCon

Tickets to this year's BlizzCon gaming convention, being held on August 21 and 22 in Anaheim, California, will go on sale worldwide on Saturday, May 16 for $125 each, with a second block of tickets going on sale Saturday, May 30. For those unable to attend, DIRECTV will once again be televising BlizzCon in high definition as a Pay Per View event, featuring coverage from the show floor, exclusive interviews, demos, and more. In addition, for the first time, players around the world will be able to watch the DIRECTV BlizzCon event as a Pay Per View Internet stream. Check out the press release ( http://www.blizzard.com/us/press/090505.html ) for further details, and head over to http://www.blizzcon.com on May 16 or May 30 to buy your tickets.

Ticket Queue System Information- http://www.blizzard.com/blizzcon/events/tickets.xml

Sadly i won't be able to make it this year, but $39.95 USD for an online stream!

2009-05-03, 19:44	Link #3442
Xacual Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	Except the so called elites complaining is actually completely justified in this case. Ensidia and the other really big guilds will try and theorycraft tons of combinations to get a kill. If they come out and say what they did then you should be prepared to take them at their word, though I'll admit Ensidia has said some really stupid stuff in the past like calling druids useless back in TBC I think?. 2 minute Hodir is almost impossible like they said, comparing it to people who complain about normal mode stuff is not in anyway a fair thing to say. __________________ I was influenced by a certain group overflowing with madness and started trying to write a story. Please give it a try. Crashed into Fantasy Last edited by Xacual; 2009-05-03 at 20:54.

2009-05-03, 20:42	Link #3443
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	Yeah I'll give them the benefit of the doubt with Hodir. At the moment it is fairly improbable accordding to napkin mathcraft. 34,000,000hp / 120sec = 283,333 raid dps 284,333 / 22 = 12,878 So in that 2 minutes 22 dps class would be required to do 12,800 dps each. Which is definately impossible at the moment (although people can come close). But with full teir 8 I'd say it's up for debate, although locks wee theory crafted out at less I think. Even if it is possible the raid stacking is stupid. 22 dps in one raid is over the top. However if the timer was blown out to 2:30 the required dps is only 8000 odd. My raid currently stacks like 3 tanks 5 healers and 17 dps in a general kind of setup. That sort of a setup would require 16,600 dps per person for a 2 min kill, and 11,100 dps for a 2:30 kill. Never mind the questionable tactics they used that's a whole other can of worm. It really could be seen as double standard on blizzards part if they did take away that other guilds quest item for beating him pre-buff but not do the same to ensidia for using flower power. An extra 30 seconds might be all that is needed for a more sane raid balance. Still I would like to see the fight done on live conditions with ulduar gear and not the missmatch it will be at the moment. In the end mathcraft is no match for real data and that data is what blizzard listens to. Never mind the questionable means they used, and the potential double standards from Blizzard. If the guild that originally beat him really had their quest item taken from them because he was being buffed, then ensidia should likewise suffer for using flower-power. No (significant) NPC buff that wasn't directly involved in the boss fight has ever been a legit use of game mechanics in Blizards rules, and has had people banned in the past! __________________ Last edited by Mr Hat and Clogs; 2009-05-03 at 21:23.

2009-05-03, 20:49	Link #3444
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	There are two sides to that. Granted, Hodir is probably out of reach if you're in Naxx/Maly/OS gear and only done a couple of weeks in Ulduar. But maybe that is the whole point. That you can't just faceroll everything like last time. Hodir may have been an easybeat in non-Hard but in Hard, clearly he is is meant to be the gear check. Realistically, if Hodir is doing that to them, I'd hate to think what Algalon is like. It will be interesting to see whether Ensidia's protesting ends up falling flat or justified. The gap between Normal and Hard is considerable. Freya on Normal is cake. But put her to Hard Mode...there are only six guilds that have beaten Freya on Hard Mode. Those Elders buff her big time and hit like freight trains themselves. The alt/guest raid went very well this weekend. Downed Auriaya and rescued Hodir, Freya and Thorim. Don't think any of them required more than 5 attempts, which is darn good for a first round of tries. (And yet it took over 20 attempts to get our first Kologarn kill...still can't figure out why that was so much harder for us.) I got a very pleasant surprise when the random positions for the tier 8.5 pieces list were given out and I was somehow at #1 on the list! Which allowed me to get the piece I needed most, the helm from Thorim. Really stoked - it looks cool yet cute and I'm finally hit capped. Nice little twist of irony after chasing that 7.5 helm for months and missing it to get the first 8.5 helm in that group. Looking forward to seeing Mimiron next weekend. __________________

2009-05-04, 05:51	Link #3445
Alaya Counter Force Join Date: Nov 2007	Mage's helm reminds me of Evagelion (well I'm a mage wearing one too :P). __________________ Fate/Zero: This was the tale of a man who, more than anyone else, believed in his ideals, and was driven to despair by them. Madoka: This was the tale of magical girls whose wishes are pure and by them are driven to despair.

2009-05-04, 09:33	Link #3446
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Actually, they reminded me of Voltron. Particularly since Mimiron has a Voltron phase. Spoke to my guildies about the Hodir Hard Mode scenario. One of the leaders said casters in his 10 man run have managed to do around 10k on that fight sometimes. But there's a lot of ifs and buts, though. You need to have the light and fire buffs and you need them to not get Icicle that regularly. And from my experience so far, I hardly get to be in them before an Icicle comes. shrug __________________

2009-05-03, 19:18	Link #3441
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Like others, I find it extremely ironic that when the elite finds something they can't steamroll, they are reduced to the same level of complaining as the people they look down upon.

2009-05-04, 21:45	Link #3450
Xacual Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	Yep definitely knew it was coming, I'm suprised they didn't just nerf it down to 2.5 minutes, but maybe even that would encourage raid stacking to some degree. __________________ I was influenced by a certain group overflowing with madness and started trying to write a story. Please give it a try. Crashed into Fantasy

2009-05-04, 21:51	Link #3451
Knight Hawk Lurker Join Date: May 2004 Location: New York City	^Yeah definitely odd since throughout the Wrath beta they wanted us *NOT* to stack, to the point of changing class abilities to discourage such. Algalon is still left, we'll see how that plays out. EDIT: Spoiler for Cluck, Cluck, Cluck!: Orc riding that bad boy, definitely *Badass.* :P __________________ --A dream called "*Youth". We'll eventually wake up from this dream, but the memories will continue to endure. - Karasuma, School Rumble --Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You. - Dr. Seuss Last edited by Knight Hawk; 2009-05-04 at 22:09.*

2009-05-04, 22:44	Link #3452
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The Westfall Chicken got hit by the Gnomish World Enlarger. __________________

2009-05-05, 01:35	Link #3454
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	Not if it backfires and shrinks the world! __________________

2009-05-05, 08:59	Link #3458
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	I think that's Nosauz's queue. :P The loot quality on Hard Modes merits the efforts put in. Those that are going to be able to do the Hard Modes will reap the rewards. 4 Argent Tournament factions down, 1 more to go.... __________________