Nisemonogatari - Episode 01 Discussion / Poll

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

I don't think even this is necessarily accurate though. Yes, Hitagi chained Araragi up, but I don't think she'll be keeping him chained up against his will. Like I said, all of this S&M stuff is mostly play, and I think that Senjougahara is playing in this sort of situation is her asking Araragi to trust her, or at least hear her (that she feels like he needs to be protected). I mean, I pretty much doubt that Hitagi would actually think this stuff is okay if she were serious. However much she might tease Koyomi, she knows he's not that much of a perverted masochist.

The point is that Hitagi and Araragi are capable of communicating and listening to each other. That Araragi is currently chained to a desk is immaterial; there's no way Hitagi would actually keep him locked up there indefinitely. Similarly, I think that Araragi is capable of understanding and learning from Senjougahara's concerns about him. So the reason he's not fighting back right now is because he doesn't need to.

Yea, I was playing around too-- yes I know she's being her usual sarcastic self. Unless you consider Hitagi the dictator of a banana republic. Gogo fanart?

Originally Posted by applejuice

Can't believe there is people even in here who speaks stupid eechi arguement... >_>

People have different preferences for fanservice ya know. It's nice if you'd like to deride other people's preferences for being stupid, but as Naruto says, you better believe it.

You don't call it 'SUCKS'. You call it EFFICIENT. As I said before, that's Shaft's major technique; increasing quality of certain animation greatly, and reducing frames in other scene while keep changing the cut scene frequently with Shaft's unique style.

Efficient eh? So that's what they call it now. I think we're all well aware of the unique style. But I know trying to tell people over the use of a subjective term what to think isn't efficient though.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Let us also not forget that there was a detailed panty shot in the first five seconds of Bakemonogatari. There has always been fan service in this series, and there always will be. It's an integral part of its appeal.

Not every viewer agrees with that, Kanon.

Honestly, I myself don't. I found that detailed panty shot in the first episode of Bake to be a case of over-the-top fanservice (thankfully there wasn't too much more of that the rest of the way, at least from what I can recall off-hand).

I'd probably like this show/series even more with less fanservice. The characters, dialogue and SHAFT visual style (i.e. backgrounds, scenery) are by far the best elements of the Monogatari series, imo.

In my view, those are the only integral parts of the show's appeal, and they're all good enough that the show could work on them alone.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Not every viewer agrees with that, Kanon.

Honestly, I myself don't. I found that detailed panty shot in the first episode of Bake to be a case of over-the-top fanservice (thankfully there wasn't too much more of that the rest of the way, at least from what I can recall off-hand).

I'd probably like this show/series even more with less fanservice. The characters, dialogue and SHAFT visual style (i.e. backgrounds, scenery) are by far the best elements of the Monogatari series, imo.

In my view, those are the only integral parts of the show's appeal, and they're all good enough that the show could work on them alone.

Hahaha!! Oh man if you think this series is not fanservice-oriented then you've got a great 10 weeks ahead of you.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by omimon

Hahaha!! Oh man if you think this series is not fanservice-oriented then you've got a great 10 weeks ahead of you.

I never said that there isn't fanservice in this show.

My point is that it's not as integral to this show's appeal as some posters are making it out to be, and nor is it something that somebody would have to like about the show in order to enjoy the show at all.

Some viewers can like the Monogatari series while still disliking some of the fanservice in it.

[monir]

I think we can all agree that the primary reason the fans like this show is the dialogue. The show is nothing without it. Btw, the last couple of pages have read less than stimulating, so am I to understand the discussion for episode 1 has already dried out? Surely there are a few left over topics other than the current one we can discuss. If not, we can always for episode 2 to air.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

My point is that it's not as integral to this show's appeal as some posters are making it out to be, and nor is it something that somebody would have to like about the show in order to enjoy the show at all.

Some viewers can like the Monogatari series while still disliking some of the fanservice in it.

Well, Bakemonogatari plays with the cliché of anime, so it won't do to only offer a sanitised version of them.

When I said "Anyway, sexual tension will always be part of the Monogatari series." I meant a different thing from "integral to this show's appeal" though. I meant that in all the books I've read there was basically always some kind of sexual joke. Truth to be told, Nisio said that after the anime came out he started imagining Araragi with his VA's voice, so he toned it down, but it never disappeared.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Not every viewer agrees with that, Kanon.

Honestly, I myself don't. I found that detailed panty shot in the first episode of Bake to be a case of over-the-top fanservice (thankfully there wasn't too much more of that the rest of the way, at least from what I can recall off-hand).

I'd probably like this show/series even more with less fanservice. The characters, dialogue and SHAFT visual style (i.e. backgrounds, scenery) are by far the best elements of the Monogatari series, imo.

In my view, those are the only integral parts of the show's appeal, and they're all good enough that the show could work on them alone.

You're right, it's not something that appeals to everybody. Nevertheless, it's a very important aspect of the show, and to me it is as iconic to the series as the witty dialogues or SHAFT's style. It's all the elements you have mentioned and the fanservice put together that makes Monogatari what it is.

While I would still immensely enjoy it thanks to its witty dialogues and its eccentric characters alone, a Monogatari series without any fanservice wouldn't be quite the same. Like, say, Hokuto no Ken without manliness. Some may like it better that way, others less. My point is, it has always been present and it would be different without it. As such, I consider it an integral part of the show.

[Malkuth]

I disagree, what most refer as fan-service in the Monogatari series is an integral part of it. For example Nadeko's interaction with Koyomi are centered around her being a young and innocent girl admiring a slightly older guy, and using her body to gain his attention. Now weather in written or visual form it is impossible to convey this behavior and mindset without graphic examples. I do not want to go into details about each character, but suffice to say that it is at least naive to discard an important aspect of a show or even the whole thing altogether based on the the misconception that nudity, teasing, sex, and so on are equivalent to porn, fan-service, or sexual objectification of either sex.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

I disagree, what most refer as fan-service in the Monogatari series is an integral part of it. For example Nadeko's interaction with Koyomi are centered around her being a young and innocent girl admiring a slightly older guy, and using her body to gain his attention. Now weather in written or visual form it is impossible to convey this behavior and mindset without graphic examples. I do not want to go into details about each character, but suffice to say that it is at least naive to discard an important aspect of a show or even the whole thing altogether based on the the misconception that nudity, teasing, sex, and so on are equivalent to porn, fan-service, or sexual objectification of either sex.

Now this is something I can definitely settle on. Not everything sensual has to necessarily deal with gratuitous porn or whatnot. There is definitely a fine line to what constitutes good stuff (makes you go "damn that's hot and allows me to associate it with character X") and other stuff ("you're trying too hard to excite me" -- see Guilty Crown)

Essentially sexuality can be relevant to the plot depending on the skill with what it is portrayed. But given how society is, YMMV heavily, especially if you live in ones that freak out more about sex than violence. -_-

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Chase

Best part of the episode was the beginning for me with the Hitagi/Koyomi psychological torture scene....

I agree. Set the stage for the whole series, with us as Araragi and Shinbou/Nishio as Senjougahara. It's all for our own good....

Things like that scene and the fanservice are just so strong. For me, this franchise operates at a level of great subconscious richness. Art with a capital A.

[Terminator98]

*comes in late*

So I just watched this after realizing it finally aired (OH GOD HOW LONG HAVE I WAITED).

I have two sentences to put in my appreciation:
- SENJOUGAHARA-SAN, ABUSE ME MORE PLEASE!
- MAYOI-CHAN, LET ME ABUSE YOU MORE!

Seriously, these two moments were effing awesome and hillarious. The dialogue, the pacing... good Shaft art... couldn't ask for more here.

That and the Opening is even more catchy than Stable Staple... (as expected from the great Chiwa Saitou)

[molitar]

Sorry but I don't call the censoring teaser shots fan service.. so far not impressed.. First episode Senjougahara practically ran around much of the time in panstu and bra but this season nothing.. all implied which really sucks and taking my enjoyment away. Loved the first one but this one not so much.. Haven't seen anything to draw me in yet.. teasers.. ugg.. I hate the implied teasers the worst! Either be ecchi or don't be ecchi I can't stand those that can't make up their damn minds and play the fence like this.. just awful.

[DragoZERO]

So, stupid question. What was the Eva reference? I just re-watched it last summer but my brain was filled with 1's and 0's last semester, lol.

[Shikijin]

"You won't die because I'll protect you". Rei Ayanami, episode 6.

[Malkuth]

How could anyone even remember that

[Archon_Wing]

It's one of my favorite lines in that anime, and perhaps anime in general, so that was easy to remember.

Though in this case the person who wants to say it just makes me want to run away.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

How could anyone even remember that

I was tempted to ask the same question but the fact is that even me, a person with awful memory for these kind of things, got that reference straight away.

I don't know why but maybe it has something to do with the fact that Eva was one of the first shows I watched in my early teens and helped fuel my current taste for anime. Also: I watched it in my early teens. (mixing that show with the rampant emotions of a teenage kid is a killer combo )

[Kyuu]

OK. I am convinced more so than ever -- that Senjogahara is indeed... tsundere.

[NoemiChan]

For me, aside from the reappearance of my girl ( Senjogahara SAMA ), the highlight of this episode is the OP song... until now I can't over it... when?! when?!