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Old 2016-06-20, 20:03   Link #1941
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by Nvis View Post
Did one of these priestesses hired Elsa, I wonder?
I was wondering why nobody seemed to mention this before, and we're already quite a few posts in after the ep. I guess people just didn't feel like mentioning the obvious
Another question is whether or not the one who hired Elsa was also the one who hired the shaman. There might be more than one side conspiring against Emilia!

Crack theory time! That new handsome knight is the one who sent the shaman (but not Elsa). Reason? He actually loves Emilia and want her to stay away from the (likely to be bloody) priestess business by stripping her (heh) of her backer. He probably wouldn't mind a few maids and peasants dying along the way. The one who hired Elsa was probably that rude priestess with kansai-ben, because Priscilla doesn't seem to be one to mingle in underhanded tactics (not sure about her backer though), and the other one seems to be an idiot .
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Old 2016-06-20, 21:01   Link #1942
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It seems extremely short-sighted to say that Subaru should have stayed put. That's the one thing he cannot and must not do given he has no control over his ability; he can't set the savepoint or even determine if he will even respawn the next time he dies. He has to live each moment as if it's his last until forced to respawn (and even then the rules can change on him).

Imagine he didn't force his way to the castle, Emilia dies and then the save point is established AFTER Emilia dies.


He could have done a better job convincing Emilia but it's well within his established character to be somewhat clumsy in his attempts. And it's not like he gets to rehearse this, I doubt anyone in this thread could get through a job interval without a hiccup for instance and that's with preparation. When you're on the spot, it's hard.
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Old 2016-06-20, 21:56   Link #1943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Crack theory time! That new handsome knight is the one who sent the shaman (but not Elsa). Reason? He actually loves Emilia and want her to stay away from the (likely to be bloody) priestess business by stripping her (heh) of her backer. He probably wouldn't mind a few maids and peasants dying along the way. The one who hired Elsa was probably that rude priestess with kansai-ben, because Priscilla doesn't seem to be one to mingle in underhanded tactics (not sure about her backer though), and the other one seems to be an idiot .
Did you forget that Elsa killed Emilia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
It seems extremely short-sighted to say that Subaru should have stayed put. That's the one thing he cannot and must not do given he has no control over his ability; he can't set the savepoint or even determine if he will even respawn the next time he dies. He has to live each moment as if it's his last until forced to respawn (and even then the rules can change on him).

Imagine he didn't force his way to the castle, Emilia dies and then the save point is established AFTER Emilia dies.


He could have done a better job convincing Emilia but it's well within his established character to be somewhat clumsy in his attempts. And it's not like he gets to rehearse this, I doubt anyone in this thread could get through a job interval without a hiccup for instance and that's with preparation. When you're on the spot, it's hard.
As we've already said, if Emilia were to die, being present wouldn't have changed squat. She has been gathered along with 4 other queen candidates. Security is tight. Reinhard and Roswaal are there. You remember them? The guys that did the actual fighting and winning?
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Old 2016-06-20, 22:31   Link #1944
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by bakato View Post
Did you forget that Elsa killed Emilia?
Did you even read my post?
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Old 2016-06-20, 23:36   Link #1945
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Now that I think more about what happened in the previous arc, I'm now not that clear as to what killed Ram. Thoughts?
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Old 2016-06-20, 23:44   Link #1946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
It seems extremely short-sighted to say that Subaru should have stayed put. That's the one thing he cannot and must not do given he has no control over his ability; he can't set the savepoint or even determine if he will even respawn the next time he dies. He has to live each moment as if it's his last until forced to respawn (and even then the rules can change on him).

Imagine he didn't force his way to the castle, Emilia dies and then the save point is established AFTER Emilia dies.


He could have done a better job convincing Emilia but it's well within his established character to be somewhat clumsy in his attempts. And it's not like he gets to rehearse this, I doubt anyone in this thread could get through a job interval without a hiccup for instance and that's with preparation. When you're on the spot, it's hard.
Imagine if he forces his way into the castle and gets arrested and the save point is set after that. How does that help anyone? Sure, if you only presume the best case scenario for his decisions they are completely good and it's short-sighted to go against them.

Or how about he goes in, Emilia gets killed and he doesn't. What if he just gets knocked out?

Exactly, he has to live each moment like he's only got one shot. Burning the trust he has with Emilia, possibly getting himself arrested or stuck outside isn't a flawless plan. He could just as easily find out what happens from where he is and slit his own throat.

I get why Subaru feels he needs to get involved in this. I don't think there is anything out of character or not understandable about his choice. What I don't think is that his decision is absolutely the right one and that disagreeing with it is short-sighted or objectively wrong.
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Old 2016-06-21, 01:34   Link #1947
ChronoReverse
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Originally Posted by bakato View Post
As we've already said, if Emilia were to die, being present wouldn't have changed squat. She has been gathered along with 4 other queen candidates. Security is tight. Reinhard and Roswaal are there. You remember them? The guys that did the actual fighting and winning?
The whole point here is that he will be able to do something with information that nobody else has in the worst case scenario. It's a Groundhog Day loop and information is the greatest weapon.

If he's present and the people there solve everything, then GREAT! It's not much worse in terms of his ultimate goal of saving Emilia. But consider the case where something can get past the guard and harm Emilia; only on-hand foreknowledge has the slightest chance of helping. (Also keep in mind he didn't originally plan to come in the way he did with the other candidate).



Quote:
Imagine if he forces his way into the castle and gets arrested and the save point is set after that. How does that help anyone? Sure, if you only presume the best case scenario for his decisions they are completely good and it's short-sighted to go against them.

Or how about he goes in, Emilia gets killed and he doesn't. What if he just gets knocked out?

Exactly, he has to live each moment like he's only got one shot. Burning the trust he has with Emilia, possibly getting himself arrested or stuck outside isn't a flawless plan. He could just as easily find out what happens from where he is and slit his own throat.
It's purely a risk-reward thing. There is no flawless plan obviously and while we're being treated to a story where the normal story plots are often overturned, being passive isn't going to change anything in a time loop story.

As mentioned above, Emilia is under heavy guard so any situation that arises has to be something that can only be dealt with via information. Second-hand information that Emilia died gives you nothing but being there to see the slightest grain of insight just might eventually add up to something useful.



Ultimately, losing Emilia's trust is a heavy blow and obviously there's no guarantee that what Subaru gains will ever outweigh what was lose. It could turn out to be the worst decision (for instance, I highly suspect the save point won't roll back him coming to the castle). But if the alternative is to sit back and do nothing, that is certainly inferior to being proactive*

*To a certain degree. I'm sure Subaru didn't originally plan on doing something as stupid as coming in with another candidate in plain sight of Emilia but he's a dullard for not noticing it coming although to be fair, the point where that became obvious was a no return point.
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Old 2016-06-21, 01:50   Link #1948
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Repeat death and suffering? Nah. Felix exemplifies the cruelty of the Re:Zero world
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Old 2016-06-21, 03:02   Link #1949
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
I was wondering why nobody seemed to mention this before, and we're already quite a few posts in after the ep. I guess people just didn't feel like mentioning the obvious
Another question is whether or not the one who hired Elsa was also the one who hired the shaman. There might be more than one side conspiring against Emilia!

Crack theory time! That new handsome knight is the one who sent the shaman (but not Elsa). Reason? He actually loves Emilia and want her to stay away from the (likely to be bloody) priestess business by stripping her (heh) of her backer. He probably wouldn't mind a few maids and peasants dying along the way. The one who hired Elsa was probably that rude priestess with kansai-ben, because Priscilla doesn't seem to be one to mingle in underhanded tactics (not sure about her backer though), and the other one seems to be an idiot .
I'd vote for Al.

Because he wears a helmet 24/7, and people who do that are usually either the major antagonist or crazy.

Eg. Darth Vader, every antagonist in Gundam etc.
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Old 2016-06-21, 03:19   Link #1950
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Because he wears a helmet 24/7, and people who do that are usually either the major antagonist or crazy.

Eg. Darth Vader, every antagonist in Gundam etc.
Nope. Not every Gundam antagonist wears helmet. Heck, quite a number of them proudly show their faces without any kind of coverings.
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Old 2016-06-21, 06:34   Link #1951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakato View Post
As we've already said, if Emilia were to die, being present wouldn't have changed squat. She has been gathered along with 4 other queen candidates. Security is tight. Reinhard and Roswaal are there. You remember them? The guys that did the actual fighting and winning?
Yes. And in the event of a reset (which will most likely happen), I'd say Subaru can "skip" going to the castle...this is assuming Subaru's presence won't influence the meeting.
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Old 2016-06-21, 08:14   Link #1952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakato View Post
As we've already said, if Emilia were to die, being present wouldn't have changed squat. She has been gathered along with 4 other queen candidates. Security is tight. Reinhard and Roswaal are there. You remember them? The guys that did the actual fighting and winning?
If Emilia or Roswaal (or basically anybody with a name at that gathering) were to die, he'd have to hear about it, kill himself, and then barge in anyways.

As far as "the guys that did the actual fighting and winning?" being there, well, Reinhard isn't exactly great at finding the villains before they do villainous shit, and Roswaal can't even protect his own demesne. They're better fighters than Subaru by leaps and mountains and bounds, but they're not omniscient. That's the beauty of being able to go back in time.

Of course, you have to know that you need to go back in time in the first place.
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Old 2016-06-21, 08:45   Link #1953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
If Emilia or Roswaal (or basically anybody with a name at that gathering) were to die, he'd have to hear about it, kill himself, and then barge in anyways.

As far as "the guys that did the actual fighting and winning?" being there, well, Reinhard isn't exactly great at finding the villains before they do villainous shit, and Roswaal can't even protect his own demesne. They're better fighters than Subaru by leaps and mountains and bounds, but they're not omniscient. That's the beauty of being able to go back in time.

Of course, you have to know that you need to go back in time in the first place.
You seem to forget that there is currently no indication of how or when savepoints are being set.
Imagine how devasted he'd be if what you said happens and then a savepoint gets set right after that event.
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Old 2016-06-21, 09:17   Link #1954
erneiz_hyde
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But if we go by that argument, being there also wouldn't guarantee a reset at an opportune moment, since we don't know how it is setup after all. For all we know the savepoint can even be at the moment right before something went wrong at the ceremony.
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Old 2016-06-21, 09:46   Link #1955
ChronoReverse
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Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
You seem to forget that there is currently no indication of how or when savepoints are being set.
Imagine how devasted he'd be if what you said happens and then a savepoint gets set right after that event.
It's a matter looking at the two worse case outcomes: Subaru doesn't know where the savepoint is created (if at all) so which would be worse to him?

Trying something but failing and then getting locked out.
VS
Not having tried at all and then getting locked out.


Both are equally likely right now since we don't know very much about his ability at all. I know which I'd rather live with though.



With that said, while I think staying behind and doing nothing is the poorer choice, I don't think Subaru's current approach is the best or even close to it. Clearly he could have approached this better but I guess this makes for an interesting set up. Probably nothing will happen yet and Subaru will get a savepoint after this mistake.

Last edited by ChronoReverse; 2016-06-21 at 10:05.
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Old 2016-06-21, 12:28   Link #1956
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
But if we go by that argument, being there also wouldn't guarantee a reset at an opportune moment, since we don't know how it is setup after all. For all we know the savepoint can even be at the moment right before something went wrong at the ceremony.
No, but if he's there, he has a better chance of dying before Emilia. By taking a bullet for her, if nothing else. Which hopefully will place the savepoint at some useful time.

(I don't actually think much of his decision making, but if all we care about are the savepoints, his insistence on being there somewhat makes sense.)
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Old 2016-06-21, 13:52   Link #1957
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Though Subaru's presence seems irrelevant to the whole new political scheme of things, it has its merits and serves two purposes. One, he the story teller brings the audience into court. Two, if bad shtuff happens to Emilia, he can kill himself to reset to save her. He may be paranoid but the concern is reasonable and justified.

I'm still trying to understand why Emilia is going along with Master Magician plan. She doesn't seem to be into it. If the main competition is between thief girl Felt backed by Sir Saint Sword vs. half elf Emilia backed by Clown Magician Master, I think it's clear who the winner will be.
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Old 2016-06-21, 14:03   Link #1958
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Now that I think more about what happened in the previous arc, I'm now not that clear as to what killed Ram. Thoughts?
Ram didn't die in the previous arc, Rem did. She died as a result of the shaman's curse. In that loop Subaru didn't work at the mansion, so Rem went to the village by herself, got bit, and died as a result of the curse the bit inflicted.
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Old 2016-06-21, 15:11   Link #1959
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Old 2016-06-21, 15:44   Link #1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifis View Post
Though Subaru's presence seems irrelevant to the whole new political scheme of things, it has its merits and serves two purposes. One, he the story teller brings the audience into court. Two, if bad shtuff happens to Emilia, he can kill himself to reset to save her. He may be paranoid but the concern is reasonable and justified.

I'm still trying to understand why Emilia is going along with Master Magician plan. She doesn't seem to be into it. If the main competition is between thief girl Felt backed by Sir Saint Sword vs. half elf Emilia backed by Clown Magician Master, I think it's clear who the winner will be.
Not so clear I think, considering how easily Reinhard brushed Elsa off.
Rosewald on the other hand is said to be the best magi in the entire kingdom.


the true question is imho, and I raised it before, why Rosewald would support someone who fits the description of the entire world's big bad bogeyman.
Especially sicne Emilias emotionless and angry expressions totally give me the vibes I'd expect from Satella. - that is if she is actually realyl as evil as everyone says.
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