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Old 2016-06-28, 01:12   Link #2141
Applehell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicili View Post
This to me is Emilia's character flaw. It would probably be too strong a word to say she has trust issues with people. But it is quite obvious she has trouble understanding why anyone (eg Subaru) would give her unconditional love.

It's quite evident in their argument after Subaru got his ass whooped. The points flings against Subaru are stuff like.
1. You're doing it for yourself aren't you?
2. You broke my promise so i can't trust you anymore
3. You are doing it because i'm special right?

She's having trouble understanding unconditional love, she thinks "love" or maybe say help from others always carries with it a condition.
Emilia's thinking:
1. You're helping me to benifit yourself?
2. You need to keep a promise or i can't trust you anymore
3. You're helping me because i'm princess/king candidate.

While it may not seem too obvious. I feel that Emilia's character is built around her not understanding the concept of unconditional love. It's likely she has gotten a lot of shit from people for her being half elf, looks like Satella etc. Deep down inside she is not really a believer in the intrinsic good of people. For good reasons but still.
What Emilia may be thinking about the people around her atm:

Puck: helping her because contract
Roswall: cos i'm princess
Rem and Ram: cos they work for Roswall
Beatrice: is she even a helper?
Subaru: not even sure what to think about him.

It's quite ironic that her final goal if she is to become king is to have equality for the people. The whole thing is super ironic if you think about it. The one who is talking about equality doesn't truly believe in equality. Or at least she doesn't believe its a natural thing. In her eyes, equality and respect needs to be gained with the power of kingship, it needs to be enforced, it needs to be gained with power because there is no true equality in this world. And when you use force to enforce equality. You are imposing your ideals on other people from a superior position. Doesn't it already imply that you and the other party are not true equals?

Or lets say, would she really be happy if she became king. And forced everyone to follow her ideals of equality? No, i don't think so. Because she knows that they are forced to do it and its not real.

She doesn't show it, but you can tell that in her situation, she is actually quite lonely and vulnerable and really needs people to just reassure her. Which honestly is something that Subaru really sucks at. The guy just couldn't read a clue. Out of the whole Roswall household Subaru was most likely the one she trusted the most after Puck. I think she was honest when she said that she "had high hopes of him". Who else could she rely on in that household? It's not even a matter of who has the strength to help her. Roswaal is super strong but are you going to trust him? No.

Her whole ideal of equality through kingship is flawed and she herself doesn't realize it. She doesn't need to be king. She doesn't need you to have superpowers to help protect her. Poor girl just needs a real friend man. And Subaru doesn't get it despite her being his crush. Basically a death sentence in terms of eh love. I just know that he really isn't going to get the girl like that.

Still even after all i typed i think the one who needs to take most of the blame here is still Subaru. I would probably fault Subaru more for not actually understanding Emilia AT ALL more than all his silly antics. And also arc 1&2 has really made him slightly too over-confident, which leads to him acting retarded this episode.

The SubaruXEmilia ship is just going to sink so stupid fast. Both of them just don't seem that good at understanding other people.

Rem is just better btw. So no harm done.

I generally agree. Puck actually makes some interesting remarks that lend some creditance to this particular line of thought such as fact she's no real friend outside Subaru and that she has gone though several tragedies before meeting with Roswaal. The fact she was blaffed that Subaru accepted her hertiage and appearnce so naturally is pretty telling to what her disposition to everyone that isn't Puck is normally like. It's no wonder Emilia gravitated towards him because even though she thought he was rather odd person Subaru was probably one of few people to look past fact she was half-elf who shared an appearnce to once known greatest threat to the world. I think ties in nicely to why in part she took position of wanting equality she as King, because as some who's personally suffered due to being misunderstood because of fear it's natural that she want to work towards culitavting a society of more open-minded people like Subaru.

I don't it's hopeless relationship though, especially if Subaru could eventually win over someone who once harbored enough animosty to kill him and managed to assuage said person inferiority complex to a degree. But it's going to require a change on his part this time and how he apporaches her.

Last edited by Applehell; 2016-06-28 at 02:04.
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Old 2016-06-28, 03:39   Link #2142
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
13 episode in and I still think that Subaru might be legally retarded, while Emilia gets the award for most generic and basic character I have ever seen.
Emilia is the most generic and basic character you've ever seen? Well then, I guess you're lucky that you've never seen worse character than her coz there are actually millions and tons of other female characters which are a lot more generic than Emilia including the ones in popular series like SAO, Highschool DxD, and countless of others .
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Old 2016-06-28, 04:43   Link #2143
Tenzen12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicili View Post
This to me is Emilia's character flaw. It would probably be too strong a word to say she has trust issues with people. But it is quite obvious she has trouble understanding why anyone (eg Subaru) would give her unconditional love.

It's quite evident in their argument after Subaru got his ass whooped. The points flings against Subaru are stuff like.
1. You're doing it for yourself aren't you?
2. You broke my promise so i can't trust you anymore
3. You are doing it because i'm special right?

She's having trouble understanding unconditional love, she thinks "love" or maybe say help from others always carries with it a condition.
Emilia's thinking:
1. You're helping me to benifit yourself?
2. You need to keep a promise or i can't trust you anymore
3. You're helping me because i'm princess/king candidate.

I don'treally think she misinterpret things at all though here. In first place there is no reason to think Subaru get any actual benefit from getting half-killed everytime. Subaru did all these things for "self-satisfaction" in this particular case and Emilia correctly pointed on it.

For trust by that point Subaru already lost it. Maybe not Irredeemably, but lot regardless.

And I think she doesn't think he helping her because status either. She has problem with being put on pedestal and it doesn't matter why. It also is matter of unconditional love, because person Subaru loves is not Emilia anyway, it is perfect image of Emilia. No wonder she rejected him there.
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Old 2016-06-28, 05:58   Link #2144
moridin84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece
She admits to disregarding Puck in the same scene she agrees to go on his "date." I would call her general demeanor toward him in the most recent episodes as being in contrast to Puck's assurances about Subaru as well. What was it that he can do? Read a person's feelings and motives? Emilia questioned his reasons for helping her like he does, but she's fully aware of why he does it. It was never a secret. He's been very transparent about things throughout the series, yelling his thoughts and feelings out loud for all to hear.
In arc 1, he appeared from out of the nowhere and helped her. She's grateful to him so she didn't question his origins but... it's really suspicious right?

In arc 2 she is only aware of what happened in the last reset.

- Spends all the time trying to fake being happy-go-lucky, fooling no one
- Breaks down into tears, talking about all sorts of problems that she doesn't know anything about.
- He asks the maids to go to the village, insists in fact. Shortly after he comes back from the village, he insists on returning but doesn't explain why. When they arrive they learn that the barrier around the village has been broken and the villagers have been kidnapped. Both him, Rem and Ram almost get killed until Roswaal saves them at the last minute.
- He never explains anything

In arc 3.

- Subaru promised to stay in the house. He immediately breaks that promise, for no good reason, and makes a big fuss at the meeting
- The one time she took Subaru out of the city, she leaves Subaru alone for about 10 minutes and finds him in the presence of Priscilla, another candidate for the throne. Later on, he somehow gets Priscilla to bring him with her into the meeting. He never explains this
- Subaru kept insisting that he did everything for her. However, he's doing it, at least partially, for his own satisfaction.
- He keeps saying that she should understand, that she should be willing to accept him no matter what. Because she's "Emilia".
- He never explains anything

How is it reasonable for her to blindly trust him?

I don't think it would be as much as a problem if trusting Subaru didn't require so much trust. If Subaru acted more sensibly then she wouldn't need to invest as much trust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece
You would perhaps have a good point here if not for the fact that there's not a single person in this series beyond Emilia that has these problems with Subaru. Everyone else seems fine with Subaru and the explanations he's given, and especially the actions he's taken which show his allegiance. Not to mention her best friend in the whole world is a magical spirit that can say with complete certainty whether or not Subaru is a bad person, and he totally vouches for him. Puck even wanted her to help him save Roswaal's village in the previous arc. We're shown a very clear contrast between the way she treats Subaru and the way other people treat him. Additionally, in the previous arc Emilia still had a nasty tendency to baby Subaru the way she did in these last couple of episodes. She has good intentions, but she doesn't seem to realize how dismissive she is of him and his character. Most people would snap at her if she talked to them the way she talked to Subaru in the capital, telling him to stay and be good and trying to confine him to his lodging.
It's truth that being dismissive like that was kind of rude, I didn't consider that. However, the fact is that Subaru is kind of acting like a child. He kept insisting that he should come despite not having any real reason for coming. He completely refused to listen to her, ignoring her perfectly valid reasons for him not coming.

Quote:
On that last bit, your claim that Subaru has made things more difficult for her, that's actually untrue. It was specifically established that his outburst forced Emilia to actually respond to the racist remarks that were made. Whether the outburst with the duel made a difference or not, given the dismissive tone of everyone in the room, I doubt they really cared all that much if Subaru got the shit kicked out of him.
Perhaps you are right about his outburst helping. Him claiming to be a knight didn't though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece
Roswaal doesn't trust him? Roswaal, Rem, and Ram all trust him plenty. You're misreading their reservations about him. They trust Subaru, they just don't fully understand the curse he's under. After he saved Roswaal's village they've pretty much run out of any reason not to trust him as someone that is allied with their interests. If Roswaal doesn't trust him, he has a strange way of showing it. Ram definitely trusts him now.
We didn't see any interaction between Ram and Subaru after he woke up. I suppose it's not unreasonable to say that she trusts him, though. I wonder exactly how much though.

Where have you gotten the idea that Roswaal trusts him? Roswaal himself is entirely untrustworthy. Didn't you see that evil smile when Subaru started making a fuss? He wanted him to do that and force Emilia to take her distance from him.
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Old 2016-06-28, 06:01   Link #2145
Draco Spirit
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It's fun trying to read were the overall narrative going with this.

I think a major overall narrative theme is going to to Subaru and Emilia slowly forming a true bond. We still know shockingly little about Emilia really (Contrast her with Rem and Ram). But I think that's because her arc going to be dragged over the course of the whole story, while other cast members arcs will be within the story (Rem/Ram for example).

My narrative gut says she needs to learn about 'Return by Death' before the story done, but gut says that will be a huge game changer when it happens, and lead directly into a serous change in arc structure.

From what some of the other side characters have been saying, it doesn't look like it's a complete new or unknown power either, so my guess is that fit somewhere in the whole dragon/witch/priestess thing in a important way.

On this arc, I think Sabaru going to have to learn how to navigate court politics.. by dying >.< Likely learning some insight into what he needs to undo the f**k up he made with Emilia.
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Old 2016-06-28, 06:56   Link #2146
Traece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moridin84 View Post
In arc 1, he appeared from out of the nowhere and helped her. She's grateful to him so she didn't question his origins but... it's really suspicious right?
Yes, they were initially suspicious of him because of this.

Quote:
- Spends all the time trying to fake being happy-go-lucky, fooling no one
- Breaks down into tears, talking about all sorts of problems that she doesn't know anything about.
They assumed it was trauma from nearly being murdered by a crazy person. They were only half wrong. Plus, his crying and slobbering was pretty vague because Emilia was leading him with the assumption that he was traumatized by that particular event.

Quote:
- He asks the maids to go to the village, insists in fact. Shortly after he comes back from the village, he insists on returning but doesn't explain why. When they arrive they learn that the barrier around the village has been broken and the villagers have been kidnapped. Both him, Rem and Ram almost get killed until Roswaal saves them at the last minute.
- He never explains anything
The majority of this is so far from the truth I don't even know where to start. First of all, your characterization of his request to visit the village is a bit extreme. Ram caved pretty quickly, so his meager insistence was pretty much unnecessary. The nature of the visit was so thoroughly harmless that it would be strange if they thought it was suspicious at all. He spent the whole time socializing with the villagers, getting them to call Ram and Rem by strange nicknames, and playing with children.

As far as going back, your claim that he didn't explain the reason why is completely and totally false. He explains in very specific detail exactly why he wants to go back to the village, and he explains his motivations for wanting to do so. Again, Ram caved to the request pretty quickly because, well, she's not going to argue with Beatrice saying he's cursed, and with saving Roswaal's villagers. It was then at this point that they did, as you say, discover that the children had been kidnapped and that the barrier had been broken. As I stated though this didn't happen until after they all went shopping in the village, and after it was made known that the dog in the village had cursed him.

Quote:
In arc 3.

- Subaru promised to stay in the house. He immediately breaks that promise, for no good reason, and makes a big fuss at the meeting
- The one time she took Subaru out of the city, she leaves Subaru alone for about 10 minutes and finds him in the presence of Priscilla, another candidate for the throne. Later on, he somehow gets Priscilla to bring him with her into the meeting. He never explains this
- Subaru kept insisting that he did everything for her. However, he's doing it, at least partially, for his own satisfaction.
- He keeps saying that she should understand, that she should be willing to accept him no matter what. Because she's "Emilia".
- He never explains anything
About half of this is true, and about half of this is things being listed with nothing to back it up. You have a point regarding Priscilla, but at the same time Subaru has a proven track record of being able to meet and socialize with anything that has a pulse and is earshot of him, so him randomly running into Priscilla is anything but suspicious. I'm pretty sure he could've randomly stumbled upon the missing king or whoever within the five minutes she left him alone and nobody would have batted an eye at this point. His claim that he was doing things for her wasn't wrong, it just wasn't the whole truth; he was doing this as much for her benefit as it was for him, she just never asked him to do so. Though, since he'd been doing it since the first episode I'm not sure what to say to this. This goes back to the idea that maybe waiting thirteen episodes to have a sit down about their relationship was a bad move. His claim that Emilia should understand, on the other hand? Again, everyone else understands. Puck understands more than anybody. I'm not sure how she managed to miss out on the Understanding Subaru Express.

I don't disagree out of hand. There are legitimate reasons for Emilia to not fully trust Subaru in the sense that she can't trust him to follow her orders. Along those same lines though, why is Emilia treating him the way she does and why has she been practically ordering him around for half this series now? As is often the case, there's not really a right or wrong answer to this. They're both idiots, and given their individual histories (in the case of Subaru, what we assume his history is) their inability to foster a respectful relationship with one another isn't terribly surprising.

Quote:
I don't think it would be as much as a problem if trusting Subaru didn't require so much trust. If Subaru acted more sensibly then she wouldn't need to invest as much trust.
Subaru is easily the most predictable character of the main cast. Again, this comes down to the issue of Emilia being alone in the way she treats and perceives Subaru. He doesn't even telegraph his desires and intentions; he flat out yells what they are constantly.

Quote:
It's truth that being dismissive like that was kind of rude, I didn't consider that. However, the fact is that Subaru is kind of acting like a child. He kept insisting that he should come despite not having any real reason for coming. He completely refused to listen to her, ignoring her perfectly valid reasons for him not coming.
She didn't really have very valid reasons for him not coming, which I think is part of the problem with her request. She didn't want him to participate because he's an outsider. The problem is that he's already participated in this process in some capacity, twice, and almost died because of it, twice. In the future he'll be involved in it again and die repeatedly, and probably almost die and survive to the next arc a couple more times. This was my initial reaction to her keeping him out of it in the first place. "It's a bit late for that." In a certain respect I can see where she's coming from, and in normal circumstances I'm sure many people would agree that, being that he's an outsider, he should play no part in these politics. Again though, it's a bit late for that, and frankly their politics seem to concern an awful lot more than just their particular kingdom.

Quote:
We didn't see any interaction between Ram and Subaru after he woke up. I suppose it's not unreasonable to say that she trusts him, though. I wonder exactly how much though.
He saved Ram and Rem both, as well as an entire village and its children, and Rem thinks he's the greatest thing to grace Fantasylandia since life itself. It's highly, highly unlikely that Ram doesn't trust Subaru given everything that has happened. I'm not going to say it's impossible, but I don't view it likely enough to believe it worth considering either.

Quote:
Where have you gotten the idea that Roswaal trusts him? Roswaal himself is entirely untrustworthy. Didn't you see that evil smile when Subaru started making a fuss? He wanted him to do that and force Emilia to take her distance from him.
It may be a slight stretch to assume that Roswaal trusts him in the typical sense, but considering the way he reads Subaru like a fiddle tells us that regardless of whether or not he 'trusts' him, he knows what he'll do. As you say, Roswaal is perhaps the most suspicious character of all. He seems to be making a habit of regularly manipulating Subaru and his feelings toward Emilia. He did this in the previous arc, and he's doing it again here. Roswaal certainly trusts Subaru in the respect that he trusts Subaru will fall into his lap every time by trying to protect Emilia, and so he'll continue to tell him to try and protect Emilia in the interest of doing so.

As for whether or not Roswaal is trying to distance Subaru from Emilia, that's purely conjecture, and from where I'm sitting there's more evidence to the contrary than there is supporting this idea. If Roswaal wanted Subaru gone, he doesn't need to play the long game and self-destruct their relationship with some clever manipulation. Heck, assuming Roswaal isn't aware of his ability, he could've just straight-up let Subaru die to the mabeasts by delaying for a couple of extra seconds. Nobody would've known a thing.
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Old 2016-06-28, 08:39   Link #2147
moridin84
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Yes, they were initially suspicious of him because of this.
Just because they decided to ignore it doesn't mean they've forgotten about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
They assumed it was trauma from nearly being murdered by a crazy person. They were only half wrong. Plus, his crying and slobbering was pretty vague because Emilia was leading him with the assumption that he was traumatized by that particular event.
The stuff he was talking about wasn't THAT vague. Certainly not enough to assume he was talking about the battle with the slasher woman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
The majority of this is so far from the truth I don't even know where to start. First of all, your characterization of his request to visit the village is a bit extreme. Ram caved pretty quickly, so his meager insistence was pretty much unnecessary. The nature of the visit was so thoroughly harmless that it would be strange if they thought it was suspicious at all. He spent the whole time socializing with the villagers, getting them to call Ram and Rem by strange nicknames, and playing with children.
Regardless of how innocent it seemed at the time, him insisting on going to the village and then something happening at the village by the time he returned to the mansion...

Well, ultimately they aren't blaming him or are suspicious of him for that specifically. It's just all these little things keep pilling up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
As far as going back, your claim that he didn't explain the reason why is completely and totally false. He explains in very specific detail exactly why he wants to go back to the village, and he explains his motivations for wanting to do so. Again, Ram caved to the request pretty quickly because, well, she's not going to argue with Beatrice saying he's cursed, and with saving Roswaal's villagers. It was then at this point that they did, as you say, discover that the children had been kidnapped and that the barrier had been broken. As I stated though this didn't happen until after they all went shopping in the village, and after it was made known that the dog in the village had cursed him.
He explained why he went to the village? What did he tell them? I don't remember.

There was no mention of Betty telling everyone that he was cursed. If she did then there is another suspicious point. He went to Betty the moment he came back from the village and said "I'm pretty sure I've been cursed". How could he possibly know that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
About half of this is true, and about half of this is things being listed with nothing to back it up. You have a point regarding Priscilla, but at the same time Subaru has a proven track record of being able to meet and socialize with anything that has a pulse and is earshot of him, so him randomly running into Priscilla is anything but suspicious. I'm pretty sure he could've randomly stumbled upon the missing king or whoever within the five minutes she left him alone and nobody would have batted an eye at this point.
He can certainly get along with anyone he meets but a track record for randomly running into people? From Emilia's perspective, the only person he randomly ran into was herself. Recall that Mr. Sword Saint appeared in the arc 1 battle because Felt ran into him.

Please don't then mix up our, the readers, perspective/knowledge of Subaru with Emilia's perspective/knowledge of Subaru.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
His claim that he was doing things for her wasn't wrong, it just wasn't the whole truth; he was doing this as much for her benefit as it was for him, she just never asked him to do so. Though, since he'd been doing it since the first episode I'm not sure what to say to this. This goes back to the idea that maybe waiting thirteen episodes to have a sit down about their relationship was a bad move. His claim that Emilia should understand, on the other hand? Again, everyone else understands. Puck understands more than anybody. I'm not sure how she managed to miss out on the Understanding Subaru Express.
He insisted that everything he was doing was for her. It wasn't, only some of it. Which makes that statement a lie.

That fact that he's been helping her all this time, stranger, for no good reason, is suspicious in itself.

"Everyone" doesn't understand Subaru. At least not to the extent that he needs Emilia too. Most of the cast simply haven't interacted with Subaru that much to the point where understanding is an issue.

Puck is possible an exception but Puck is a spirit. I don't know what kind of values he has but he probably just trusts what he feels from Subaru. And just because he trusts him, doesn't mean he really understands him either. Also, the fact that Puck understands Subaru's interest in Emilia isn't the same thing as understanding him overall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
I don't disagree out of hand. There are legitimate reasons for Emilia to not fully trust Subaru in the sense that she can't trust him to follow her orders. Along those same lines though, why is Emilia treating him the way she does and why has she been practically ordering him around for half this series now? As is often the case, there's not really a right or wrong answer to this. They're both idiots, and given their individual histories (in the case of Subaru, what we assume his history is) their inability to foster a respectful relationship with one another isn't terribly surprising.
How has Emilia been ordering Subaru around for half the series? This arc? Yeah I guess but all she's doing is trying to stop him from going to the meeting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
Subaru is easily the most predictable character of the main cast. Again, this comes down to the issue of Emilia being alone in the way she treats and perceives Subaru. He doesn't even telegraph his desires and intentions; he flat out yells what they are constantly.
From the perspective of the characters in the show, Subaru is the least predictable character.

He says and does nonsensical things all the time. He's constantly surprising people with his actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
She didn't really have very valid reasons for him not coming, which I think is part of the problem with her request. She didn't want him to participate because he's an outsider. The problem is that he's already participated in this process in some capacity, twice, and almost died because of it, twice. In the future he'll be involved in it again and die repeatedly, and probably almost die and survive to the next arc a couple more times. This was my initial reaction to her keeping him out of it in the first place. "It's a bit late for that." In a certain respect I can see where she's coming from, and in normal circumstances I'm sure many people would agree that, being that he's an outsider, he should play no part in these politics. Again though, it's a bit late for that, and frankly their politics seem to concern an awful lot more than just their particular kingdom.
There's plenty of reasons for Emilia to want him to exclude him from this particular meeting. It's not like she was planning to exclude him from everything ever. It's mostly a meeting to present the various candidates to the nobility anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
It may be a slight stretch to assume that Roswaal trusts him in the typical sense, but considering the way he reads Subaru like a fiddle tells us that regardless of whether or not he 'trusts' him, he knows what he'll do. As you say, Roswaal is perhaps the most suspicious character of all. He seems to be making a habit of regularly manipulating Subaru and his feelings toward Emilia. He did this in the previous arc, and he's doing it again here. Roswaal certainly trusts Subaru in the respect that he trusts Subaru will fall into his lap every time by trying to protect Emilia, and so he'll continue to tell him to try and protect Emilia in the interest of doing so.

As for whether or not Roswaal is trying to distance Subaru from Emilia, that's purely conjecture, and from where I'm sitting there's more evidence to the contrary than there is supporting this idea. If Roswaal wanted Subaru gone, he doesn't need to play the long game and self-destruct their relationship with some clever manipulation. Heck, assuming Roswaal isn't aware of his ability, he could've just straight-up let Subaru die to the mabeasts by delaying for a couple of extra seconds. Nobody would've known a thing.
Trust and being able/willing to manipulate him aren't the same thing.

Wanting to separate him from Emilia and wanting him dead aren't the same thing either.
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Old 2016-06-28, 09:33   Link #2148
Traece
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Originally Posted by moridin84 View Post
Just because they decided to ignore it doesn't mean they've forgotten about it.
You say that, but we've been given no reason to believe they haven't. As it has been established, the effect of this would be mistrust of Subaru. Since very little mistrust of Subaru has been displayed...

Quote:
Regardless of how innocent it seemed at the time, him insisting on going to the village and then something happening at the village by the time he returned to the mansion...
Is completely and totally justifiable and without suspicion. There's nothing strange about someone wanting to visit a village, and there's nothing strange about what went down. He got bit by one of the children's dogs while playing with it. They knew after the fact that one of the children was a shaman sent to kill them. You believe this action to be suspicious because you're looking for reasons for it to appear suspicious, not because it is suspicious. Actions like these, fictitious or otherwise, aren't suspicious. Not unless you want them to be. Do you think that Ram and Rem wanted Subaru to be suspicious? The tone of their conversations at that time heavily indicates that their suspicions of him were heavily alleviated. It might have something to do with the fact that he spent all that time crying on Emilia's lap, followed by her specifically telling Rem that, "he's a good person." I'm not going to deny that they were without suspicion, but I never was in the first place.

Quote:
He explained why he went to the village? What did he tell them? I don't remember.
As I mentioned, he explained the curse which Beatrice had identified. It was known, and it was shared. You're right in that Beatrice herself didn't confirm it, but that's irrelevant. This is fiction, not real life. There's no need for the sisters to waste a minute of their valuable screen time checking in with Beatrice to make sure he's being honest. As for the circumstances of the discovery of the curse, again, there might be something to what you're saying here, except only Beatrice knew about that. Beatrice said herself that her only role there is to protect the library, and based on her previous adventure with Subaru it would appear that she's not the best when it comes to maintaining that position. Regardless of whether or not they would or would not have known that Subaru knew he was cursed after visiting the village, it just changes the nature of their suspicions. They would no longer be suspicious of him being an enemy agent, but rather some sort of strange friendly agent. In the wild universe in which that actually ended up being the case, then they'd trust that Subaru would protect Emilia.

At the end of the day though, Roswaal's behavior upon their return from the village all but confirms that he was involved, or that he knew what Subaru was doing.

Quote:
He can certainly get along with anyone he meets but a track record for randomly running into people? From Emilia's perspective, the only person he randomly ran into was herself. Recall that Mr. Sword Saint appeared in the arc 1 battle because Felt ran into him.
Again, unless I'm mistaken it was Reinhard who saved Subaru in the alleyway in this continuity. Subaru then ran into Emilia in the tavern. Whether Felt ran into Reinhard or not is completely irrelevant with that in mind. He also befriended the apple salesman, Felt, the old man, and then later an entire village and its children, and made friends with every single one of them. It's safe to say he's pretty great at running into people and making friends with them. Hell, he probably would've made friends with all those mabeast too if they weren't so insistent on trying to eat him.

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He insisted that everything he was doing was for her. It wasn't, only some of it. Which makes that statement a lie.
I'm not going to argue semantics with you. Do not waste my time, and the time of those that will feel the desire to actually try and read through these posts. These kinds of responses are doing us and this discourse a great disservice.

Quote:
"Everyone" doesn't understand Subaru. At least not to the extent that he needs Emilia too. Most of the cast simply haven't interacted with Subaru that much to the point where understanding is an issue.
Subaru has spent more time on screen with Rem and Ram than he has with Emilia in this continuity, and in more dire and personal circumstances. He knows more about the two of them than he's learned about Emilia in every attempt he's experienced. In reality, he has a deeper bond with them than her.

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Puck is possible an exception but Puck is a spirit. I don't know what kind of values he has but he probably just trusts what he feels from Subaru. And just because he trusts him, doesn't mean he really understands him either. Also, the fact that Puck understands Subaru's interest in Emilia isn't the same thing as understanding him overall.
Again, now you're just going into semantics. I'm not going to go in and break down what it means to understand someone in great detail. Let's stick with the colloquial and not beat up bushes. Puck's personality is shown to be quite compatible with Subaru's in addition to Puck's ability to sense/read his feelings. He knows Subaru likes Emilia, and he knows and confirmed that he didn't have evil intentions. Emilia could've had a short conversation with Puck and probably gotten more of an explanation out of it than she can get with Subaru, since Subaru is physically incapable of explaining most of it.

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How has Emilia been ordering Subaru around for half the series? This arc? Yeah I guess but all she's doing is trying to stop him from going to the meeting.
She was giving him the same orders in the previous arc in regards to his health at several points, and she even goes so far as to comment on how childlike he is during the lap pillow scene. Essentially just setting up her future behavior in this current arc.

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From the perspective of the characters in the show, Subaru is the least predictable character.

He says and does nonsensical things all the time. He's constantly surprising people with his actions.
So Subaru is unpredictable, but he says and does nonsensical things all the time? That's not very unpredictable. For someone so unpredictable, the cast seemed fairly unsurprised by many of his actions throughout this series despite your claims to the contrary. There are aspects of his character and his tenacity that are surprising, but not his actions. What surprises them is his fortitude and willingness to be self-sacrificial.

At this point, I feel like I've devoted half this post to clearing up your many errors you've made in remembering what has actually happened in this show up until now. If you're going to take the time to try and actually discuss something with someone, that shouldn't happen. Only one of us here has actually taken the time to go back and rewatch many of these scenes to verify what has happened, and that's not how it should be. Please take the time to educate yourself on these matters if you're going to try and argue them, otherwise it shatters your credibility and makes it hard for people to trust what you've said.
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Old 2016-06-28, 10:59   Link #2149
Grifis
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
I don'treally think she misinterpret things at all though here. In first place there is no reason to think Subaru get any actual benefit from getting half-killed everytime. Subaru did all these things for "self-satisfaction" in this particular case and Emilia correctly pointed on it.

For trust by that point Subaru already lost it. Maybe not Irredeemably, but lot regardless.

And I think she doesn't think he helping her because status either. She has problem with being put on pedestal and it doesn't matter why. It also is matter of unconditional love, because person Subaru loves is not Emilia anyway, it is perfect image of Emilia. No wonder she rejected him there.
I could feel she was backing away from him after realizing that. Though Subaru would accept whoever Emilia turns out to be regardless, Emilia is definitely uncomfortable with how Subaru sees her as a perfect Goddess as she is insecure about herself. Reason why she's skeptical about things. It comes with the territory.

So even if she rejects him or leaves him, it doesn't mean she doesn't care for him or hates him. It's actually the opposite. It's clear to me that she cares about him deeply. Hence she was so upset he kept endangering himself for her. (Sometimes goodbye is a word of love.)
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Old 2016-06-28, 12:34   Link #2150
Tenzen12
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Of course, I too think that was probably part of it.
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Old 2016-06-28, 13:41   Link #2151
Elestia
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From Emilia's perspective, that might have been the only way to stop Subaru from getting into trouble. She doesn't know him and doesn't understand him, so the only thing she could do was reject him.
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Old 2016-06-28, 14:13   Link #2152
SeaDoor
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Boy, in this thread it pays to not be part of the tl;dr crowd!

Funny thing is that I believe that the overwhelming majority of what has been posted so far is correct even from opposing views. It's causing my brain to hurt.
At the beginning, I was taken in by the cute interactions among Emilia, Puck and Subaru and now continue to crave an occasional fix. Starting to wonder if this is such a "meat grinder" of a story that getting any further cute fixes will even be possible. (Not forgetting Rem and Ram of course.) GoT, indeed!
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Old 2016-06-28, 14:29   Link #2153
Loran Cehack
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Originally Posted by Grifis View Post
I could feel she was backing away from him after realizing that. Though Subaru would accept whoever Emilia turns out to be regardless, Emilia is definitely uncomfortable with how Subaru sees her as a perfect Goddess as she is insecure about herself. Reason why she's skeptical about things. It comes with the territory.

So even if she rejects him or leaves him, it doesn't mean she doesn't care for him or hates him. It's actually the opposite. It's clear to me that she cares about him deeply. Hence she was so upset he kept endangering himself for her. (Sometimes goodbye is a word of love.)
I agree with that. It seemed to me that she was sorta "sparing" him
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Old 2016-06-28, 15:01   Link #2154
moridin84
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At this point, I feel like I've devoted half this post to clearing up your many errors you've made in remembering what has actually happened in this show up until now. If you're going to take the time to try and actually discuss something with someone, that shouldn't happen. Only one of us here has actually taken the time to go back and rewatch many of these scenes to verify what has happened, and that's not how it should be. Please take the time to educate yourself on these matters if you're going to try and argue them, otherwise it shatters your credibility and makes it hard for people to trust what you've said.
Okay. Let's just drop it then.
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Old 2016-06-28, 15:49   Link #2155
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Admittedly, they're doing a REALLY good job of portraying Subaru's continually breaking state.

That said, it's making it really unfun to watch. I was wholly uncomfortable/disgusted with him the whole episode. While it's no surprise his repeated deaths and his real state mind have yet to be properly addressed-- largely due to the fact he's physically not able to have anyone else help him decompress/process, you'd think he'd have retained SOME of the good character development that had come out of the past dozen episodes.

It's as if he threw it all away, then bought a shovel to dig himself a hole even deeper. And that is what probably pissed me off the most.
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Old 2016-06-28, 17:51   Link #2156
Jerseykid
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Why isn't he considering killing himself and starting over? Because that whole episode was all kinds of things going wrong for him
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Old 2016-06-28, 18:03   Link #2157
bakato
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Originally Posted by Somnus View Post
Admittedly, they're doing a REALLY good job of portraying Subaru's continually breaking state.

That said, it's making it really unfun to watch. I was wholly uncomfortable/disgusted with him the whole episode. While it's no surprise his repeated deaths and his real state mind have yet to be properly addressed-- largely due to the fact he's physically not able to have anyone else help him decompress/process, you'd think he'd have retained SOME of the good character development that had come out of the past dozen episodes.

It's as if he threw it all away, then bought a shovel to dig himself a hole even deeper. And that is what probably pissed me off the most.
None of that development is applicable here and no development can guarantee that you won't make mistakes.

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Why isn't he considering killing himself and starting over? Because that whole episode was all kinds of things going wrong for him
You make it sound so easy. Try throwing yourself off a cliff and get back to me.
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Old 2016-06-28, 18:29   Link #2158
Ringil
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None of that development is applicable here and no development can guarantee that you won't make mistakes.



You make it sound so easy. Try throwing yourself off a cliff and get back to me.
He did it once already.
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Old 2016-06-28, 18:35   Link #2159
SuitUp
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He also doesn't know what the setpoint is right now, for all he knows if he kills himself may end up at the start of his stay at Roswaal's
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Old 2016-06-28, 18:41   Link #2160
bakato
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Originally Posted by Ringil View Post
He did it once already.
To save someone who died because of him. We do not know if Subaru has realized his mistakes. Going back won't mean anything if he doesn't reflect and correct himself.
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