The Revolution for Harem Genre

[Diluc]

i will skip the introduction part because everybody know what is this
i cant remember when the last time i started to read/watched series with harem genre but TLDR has very big picture to help me define what is harem manga
however when time passed away the harem genre really a stuck away
normal mc met girl and another girls then start the harem while them save the world or else
hillariously these kind of setting just always you can found in every series
cant we start up anything new?
i wish any japanese guys (luckily if LN writer or mangaka)to see this posts
if you guys cant escape yourself from harem circle how about start innovate, likes change the setting of harem genre, we pretty much fed up with the usual setting where the harem boy as centre boy how about give another character as spotlight
for example making a father as mc of the sons with harem
I didnt raised my son to have his own harem
it about a father regret when he learned his son has his own harem,he had a hope for his son to become con artist following his path eventually the father become jealous and start his own harem he begin to hit every housewives to include in his harem this type of harem is more aggresive than his son highschool harem path because the father must battling the husband to take their wives
or we can have things like this
My neighborhood daughter is part of my nephew harem
its the story about the 25 guy who own meat butcher shop who has crush on his 16 year old girl neighborhood however the girl sadly is the girlfriend of his newphew and worstly she is part of his harem.for most part of story the mc will act as the listener for the girl vent of her love story apparently she actually didnt have happy life with his newphew

WOW!! now isnt that revolutionary idea,japan tend to make long title nowaday such as oreimo and oregarui,if you cant make anything else aside harem then how about start make different approachment

[Magin]

So it sounds like you're at least in part wondering why the Harem genre seems to have exploded recently... I would say it's not so much exploded so much as the single girl or even love triangle route are slowly fading away.

And as for why the harems keep coming, it's my own personal theory that because it's almost impossible to have one girl embody the various traits that otaku love, instead they make sure they have a harem that has a girl of each type, and thus can pander to a wider audience who will get into the story for that specific girl.

[GDiddy]

As long as anime is around, harems aren't going nowhere, whether it's 1 guy & X amount of girls or vice versa...

[LowCholesterol]

the first time i dissapointed with harem genre was ichigo100%

[Laevatein]

As far as I know, the harem genre was invented by Urusei Yatsura, and in its current form can be traced back to Tenchi Muyo! or Love Hina.

[IceHism]

My neighborhood daughter is part of my nephew harem

That gave me a good laugh.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Roxis

Spoiler for for short:

i will skip the introduction part because everybody know what is this
i cant remember when the last time i started to read/watched series with harem genre but TLDR has very big picture to help me define what is harem manga
however when time passed away the harem genre really a stuck away
normal mc met girl and another girls then start the harem while them save the world or else
hillariously these kind of setting just always you can found in every series
cant we start up anything new?
i wish any japanese guys (luckily if LN writer or mangaka)to see this posts
if you guys cant escape yourself from harem circle how about start innovate, likes change the setting of harem genre, we pretty much fed up with the usual setting where the harem boy as centre boy how about give another character as spotlight
for example making a father as mc of the sons with harem
I didnt raised my son to have his own harem
it about a father regret when he learned his son has his own harem,he had a hope for his son to become con artist following his path eventually the father become jealous and start his own harem he begin to hit every housewives to include in his harem this type of harem is more aggresive than his son highschool harem path because the father must battling the husband to take their wives
or we can have things like this
My neighborhood daughter is part of my nephew harem
its the story about the 25 guy who own meat butcher shop who has crush on his 16 year old girl neighborhood however the girl sadly is the girlfriend of his newphew and worstly she is part of his harem.for most part of story the mc will act as the listener for the girl vent of her love story apparently she actually didnt have happy life with his newphew

WOW!! now isnt that revolutionary idea,japan tend to make long title nowaday such as oreimo and oregarui,if you cant make anything else aside harem then how about start make different approachment

I take it you don't read much mangas or LNs, well yes there is plenty of mediocre and unimaginative harems, but that's just result of Sturgeon's law. Sure I would read your ideas if they were released , but only way to "revolutionary" genre to your liking would be strict quality control, because good and original works are out there and their number grows every year. Actually due audience being supersaturated with it, deconstructions are quite common

And yeah there are few harems where harem lead and protagonist are not same person as well.

[Moroboshi-kun]

Originally Posted by Laevatein

As far as I know, the harem genre was invented by Urusei Yatsura, and in its current form can be traced back to Tenchi Muyo! or Love Hina.

I would not count Urusei Yatsura as harem, in the series Ataru is chasing every skirt in sight but he generally gets boot from everybody (except Lum of course). Therefore the series belongs rather to the category of "lecherous main character".

Consequently OVA-series Tenchi Muyō! Ryōōki would be the first real harem-series, followed few months later by Aa! Megami-sama OVAs.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Laevatein

As far as I know, the harem genre was invented by Urusei Yatsura, and in its current form can be traced back to Tenchi Muyo! or Love Hina.

Based from my limited understanding, the origin of Japanese harem genre probably was dated back as far as 12th century with The Tale of Genji where that bastard had:

1. a milf
2. an oneesan waifu (possibly yandere)
3. a loli
4. a cheating housewife
5. a younger "schoolgirl" (sort of)
6. a "transfer student" (sort of)
7. ... and a bunches of others as part of his harem

I'm pretty sure that cover most of the stereotype range for modern harem girls. The only thing that he mainly lack was "childhood friend", but considering this guy go after every girl he likes since he's 12. Most of his "childhood friend" never made to the presence in the first place

[Tenzen12]

I am not really sure that Genji counts as harem though. He in most case were always with on girl at time, until they broke up or girl/woman died to him. Well I still didn't found time to read it, though I already have it in my cellphone, so I can be wrong.

But yeah I wondered myself for while, why there is no harem genre elsewhere than in Japan and influence of Tales of Genji come to me as most likely option

[Moroboshi-kun]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

...probably was dated back as far as 12th century with The Tale of Genji...

I thought we were talking anime here.

[Tenzen12]

No, we are talkin about harem genre... which happen to be featured in Japanimation (Anime/Manga/LN/VN etc...) almost all time but not exclusively.

[Honoakari]

@risingstar3110, Tenzen12: Literature aside, we have to take into account that harems have been part of Japanese real life since ancient times. Check out the following:

Excerpt dating 3rd century CE describing ancient Japan (source):
"...As for the customs, every nobleman in the country has four or five wives, and even a man in the lower caste has two or three wives. The wives are not lewd, and never feel jealous."

And some of the more extreme cases throughout Japanese history include:

- Emperor Saga (786-842), father of at least 49 children done with 30+ women... He couldn't take care of all of them so he made them a separate clan (Minamoto).

- Ikeda Tsunamasa (1638-1714), daimyou of Okayama, said to have fathered over 70 children...

- Tokugawa Ienari (1773-1841), father of at least 53 children. The Tokugawa Shōgun had a harem of ~1000 women "available" at all times...

[Moroboshi-kun]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

No, we are talkin about harem genre... which happen to be featured in Japanimation (Anime/Manga/LN/VN etc...) almost all time but not exclusively.

Then the discussion is in wrong place. This board is called "General Anime".

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Honoakari

Spoiler for a bit off-topic:

@risingstar3110, Tenzen12: Literature aside, we have to take into account that harems have been part of Japanese real life since ancient times. Check out the following:


And some of the more extreme cases throughout Japanese history include:

- Emperor Saga (786-842), father of at least 49 children done with 30+ women... He couldn't take care of all of them so he made them a separate clan (Minamoto).

- Ikeda Tsunamasa (1638-1714), daimyou of Okayama, said to have fathered over 70 children...

- Tokugawa Ienari (1773-1841), father of at least 53 children. The Tokugawa Shōgun had a harem of ~1000 women "available" at all times...

Hardly unique to Japan though. Chinese emperors had harems of absurd sizes. So did Ottoman Sultans...Arab Sheikhs...European noblemen (though the "good Christians" did not institutionalize their mistresses like in other cultures; didn't stop His Christian Highness Charlemagne from siring what is by now half of Europe). Humans were dicks. Literally.

And indeed historical fiction from, say, China or Korea, do pay attention to that aspect. Countless Korean historical dramas involve the Queen and the Concubine scheming and murdering the fuck out of each other at every turn.

Japan's otaku subculture is unique, though, in the degree in which polygamous relationship dynamics remain a thoroughly modern and positive fiction staple. Incidentally, it is also essentially nonexistent in real life, so I wouldn't base it too much on the culture. The real life "harems," in Japan and elsewhere, remain in the hands of filthy rich old men, or manipulative sociopaths, not generically nice, well meaning schoolboys. Sheikhs, politicians, and pedophiles Eton graduates. In cultures which are still struggling to improve women's rights (the lack of which correlate quite well with the widespread practice of a male having multiple female partners), their soap operas tend to be filled with such dynamics, too, but are much more negatively portrayed and a source of negative conflict rather than wish fulfillment.

I would also argue that, as popular as Japan's harem tropes are, by and large most of them conclude with either a singular monogamous choice, or a non-choice (which is to say the "right answer" is still monogamy, just that the story refused to break the status quo). Stories which genuinely tackle harems as the "right" ending are rare, and I have yet to personally find a great one. This, I think, speaks to the inherent contradiction between modern Japan's cultural norm of [optionally serial] monogamy vs. the harem trope.

Originally Posted by Moroboshi-kun

Then the discussion is in wrong place. This board is called "General Anime".

Speculating on a subject's source of origin is hardly off topic.

[Honoakari]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

...as popular as Japan's harem tropes are, by and large most of them conclude with either a singular monogamous choice, or a non-choice (which is to say the "right answer" is still monogamy, just that the story refused to break the status quo). Stories which genuinely tackle harems as the "right" ending are rare, and I have yet to personally find a great one.

The same can be said about other "genres" as well. Take incest for example. How many of those little sisters presented as part of some guy's harem actually end up as the MC's love interest? The fear of losing money and fans as a result of taking stories in controversial directions (which many authors seem to have) leads to dreadful "all teasing and no content" situations, which in my opinion severely plague the anime industry.

I believe that if there's going to be a "revolution" (both in the harem genre and others), web novels are going to be at its forefront. This is because WN authors can write freely, without being constrained by the moral codes of any publishers, or else any publishers' intended audience(s).

In my opinion, a recent example of a harem story done right is Mushoku Tensei. It's the most popular web novel on narou, and I believe that its popularity proves, among other things, that many WN readers (most who are probably also anime/manga/LN fans at large) are tired of stories containing the same, overused harem tropes, and that they are not bothered by the current social inacceptability of "true" harems in the least.

Hopefully, the popularity of works such as Mushoku will change the perspective of anime/LN producers and motivate them to abandon old, cliche harem tropes in favor of actual content and variety.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Hardly unique to Japan though. Chinese emperors had harems of absurd sizes. So did Ottoman Sultans...Arab Sheikhs...European noblemen (though the "good Christians" did not institutionalize their mistresses like in other cultures; didn't stop His Christian Highness Charlemagne from siring what is by now half of Europe). Humans were dicks. Literally.

And indeed historical fiction from, say, China or Korea, do pay attention to that aspect. Countless Korean historical dramas involve the Queen and the Concubine scheming and murdering the fuck out of each other at every turn.

Japan's otaku subculture is unique, though, in the degree in which polygamous relationship dynamics remain a thoroughly modern and positive fiction staple. Incidentally, it is also essentially nonexistent in real life, so I wouldn't base it too much on the culture. The real life "harems," in Japan and elsewhere, remain in the hands of filthy rich old men, or manipulative sociopaths, not generically nice, well meaning schoolboys. Sheikhs, politicians, and pedophiles Eton graduates. In cultures which are still struggling to improve women's rights (the lack of which correlate quite well with the widespread practice of a male having multiple female partners), their soap operas tend to be filled with such dynamics, too, but are much more negatively portrayed and a source of negative conflict rather than wish fulfillment.

I would also argue that, as popular as Japan's harem tropes are, by and large most of them conclude with either a singular monogamous choice, or a non-choice (which is to say the "right answer" is still monogamy, just that the story refused to break the status quo). Stories which genuinely tackle harems as the "right" ending are rare, and I have yet to personally find a great one. This, I think, speaks to the inherent contradiction between modern Japan's cultural norm of [optionally serial] monogamy vs. the harem trope.

Agree on here.

The reason i credited the romance mindset for a piece of literature rather than on the national culture itself, is because based on my (once again limited) understanding, old and well-known piece of literature do sometime define the population flavor of romance for common folks. I believed i heard somewhere about how King Arthur story did bred a whole generation of loyal knight dreaming about his lord's lady (i think there are others, but this is the only one I remembered). Modern literature probably filled with more of these (most obviously, Shakespeare), but our mean of communication has been changing through so maybe it won't be able to take root and be as long-lasting as before.

Also one of the reason I mentioned about the Tales of Genji, is because a) the girl introduced in there was more or less all unique in term of personality and upbringing, rather than the more typical good side versus bad side (or divided into political/ influential) like Chinese and possibly Korean drama often rooted their harem story on.

Then more important b), the fact that Genji also sorta courted them one at a time (as Tenzen12 mentioned) also made it quite a bit similar to what defined modern anime genre. As in let's be honest, having the harem come in together rarely is the key definition for harem itself (some of the harem shows don't even have girls reacting with each other much). Similarly having the main character being chased by a bunch of generic girls also would not be defined as harem. To what i understand, the key of harem seemed to be the many well-defined and unique female leads, and how all of them interacted individually to the main character

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Stories which genuinely tackle harems as the "right" ending are rare, and I have yet to personally find a great one.

Umm...

Spoiler for series with harem ending:

Grisaia series? Probably not a legit "great" one, but at least it's more than just "good" especially for a harem standard .

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Honoakari

The same can be said about other "genres" as well. Take incest for example. How many of those little sisters presented as part of some guy's harem actually end up as the MC's love interest? The fear of losing money and fans as a result of taking stories in controversial directions (which many authors seem to have) leads to dreadful "all teasing and no content" situations, which in my opinion severely plague the anime industry.

I believe that if there's going to be a "revolution" (both in the harem genre and others), web novels are going to be at its forefront. This is because WN authors can write freely, without being constrained by the moral codes of any publishers, or else any publishers' intended audience(s).

In my opinion, a recent example of a harem story done right is Mushoku Tensei. It's the most popular web novel on narou, and I believe that its popularity proves, among other things, that many WN readers (most who are probably also anime/manga/LN fans at large) are tired of stories containing the same, overused harem tropes, and that they are not bothered by the current social inacceptability of "true" harems in the least.

Hopefully, the popularity of works such as Mushoku will change the perspective of anime/LN producers and motivate them to abandon old, cliche harem tropes in favor of actual content and variety.

There is one problem though, "True harems" already became cliche on it's own rights and MT is pretty much only one that did it right. Other are mostly (probably completely) just another steps to wish fulfillment writing. Honestly, they are painful to read.

yeah it's only matter of time before it get integrated into genre in other medias than web novels, but It's only extension of already existing traits of genre.

[Laevatein]

Just trying to think... what was the first "reverse harem" series in anime or manga? How about Yaoi and Yuri harems?