Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Tak

I wonder if Obama took lessons from Dully.

- Tak

I always thought that Durandal = George W. Bush, especially with both of them sharing a "you're either with us or against us" mentality, as well as the Destiny Plan being similar to the Patriot Act (in terms of overall concept).

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

the Destiny Plan being similar to the Patriot Act (in terms of overall concept).

No, just no.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

I don't think that Abyss HG picture is working, Obe.

Really ? Oh well, even without picture, I think my point is pretty clear. But if you still want to see it, you can click this link.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Really ? Oh well, even without picture, I think my point is pretty clear. But if you still want to see it, you can click this link.

The beam cannons almost look like they cross the other side's firing path. Do the wings (due to ignorance of the proper term) open any wider than shown in 2 of those pictures?

[Galaxian]

The HG Destiny line seems to have really wide hips

My HG Destiny Gundam is like that too, but a bit less pronounced.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by monster

The beam cannons almost look like they cross the other side's firing path. Do the wings (due to ignorance of the proper term) open any wider than shown in 2 of those pictures?

Although not a 100% full forward in direction, it's supposed to be able to go wider than the ones shown on that link.

[monster]

Ah, yes, that looks better. Thanks for showing it. Although they may not be fully facing forward, at least it doesn't look like the beams will collide right in front of the Abyss.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by monster

No, just no.

Besides "Brave New World", there's also Hobbes' "Leviathan".

What about the Bush comparison? He and Durandal shared the "with us or against us" mentality.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Besides "Brave New World", there's also Hobbes' "Leviathan".

The main issue with the Patriot Act is about privacy vs. security, not a totalitarian control.

The overall concept of the Destiny Plan is that, since people are bad, the only way for peace is to directly control the people.

The overall concept of the Patriot Act is that, since bad people hide amongst good people, the only way to increase security is to lessen the limits of what the government can do in order to gain information about potential bad people.

They may both be bad, but these are two different concepts.

What about the Bush comparison? He and Durandal shared the "with us or against us" mentality.

What about it? Many other people, especially those in power, can share that mentality.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by monster

The main issue with the Patriot Act is about privacy vs. security, not a totalitarian control.

The overall concept of the Destiny Plan is that, since people are bad, the only way for peace is to directly control the people.

It's basically "Leviathan", which we can agree on.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

I always thought that Durandal = George W. Bush, especially with both of them sharing a "you're either with us or against us" mentality, as well as the Destiny Plan being similar to the Patriot Act (in terms of overall concept).

Not quite. The Patriot act had nothing to do with it.

In fact I don't think it was even Durandal that was supposed to be George Bush but EA, who used the Junius Seven attack as an excuse to push for war against Zaft again, even thought they clearly knew it was an independent terrorist group used it as an excuse. Similar to how the US invaded Afganistan and Iraq due to 9/11 even though it was carried out by a splinter group, and used the momentum to oust Hussien and start going for oil.

Though you could also say Durandal had shades of Bush with how he used the excuse that he was going after bad people to push his hidden agenda, as he ousted Logos and EA while claiming the moral high ground because they were bad, similar to how America made up a half hearted WMD excuse to invade Iran and then basically wrote it off by saying Hussein was a monster anyway so it was fine to oust him, and used the info of how evil he was as a smokescreen for the fact that he was basically ousted under false pretenses.

And if you believe Durandal started the war by arranging for the Gundam theft and Junius Seven drop himself, then you could say it was also a reference to the 9/11 conspiricy rumors of how it was done by the US government itself as an excuse to fire up the war machine and start taking the middle east.

None of that has to do with the Patriot Act though. I dont' think the Patriot Act was even a thing yet when Destiny was made.

Either way though, apparantly every country but Orb was some fraction of post 9/11 Bush run America.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

It's basically "Leviathan", which we can agree on.

I'm not sure as I haven't read it, so I don't really know what you're comparing Leviathan to and what the basis of that comparison is.

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

I dont' think the Patriot Act was even a thing yet when Destiny was made.

The Patriot Act was passed in 2001.

Either way though, apparantly every country but Orb was some fraction of post 9/11 Bush run America.

What do you mean? And why is Orb the exception?

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by monster

I'm not sure as I haven't read it, so I don't really know what you're comparing Leviathan to and what the basis of that comparison is.

Thomas Hobbes's Leviathan

[monster]

Oh, I've taken a looked at that page. Still, I just want to reserve my comments regarding that book.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Not quite. The Patriot act had nothing to do with it.

In fact I don't think it was even Durandal that was supposed to be George Bush but EA, who used the Junius Seven attack as an excuse to push for war against Zaft again, even thought they clearly knew it was an independent terrorist group used it as an excuse. Similar to how the US invaded Afganistan and Iraq due to 9/11 even though it was carried out by a splinter group, and used the momentum to oust Hussien and start going for oil.

Though you could also say Durandal had shades of Bush with how he used the excuse that he was going after bad people to push his hidden agenda, as he ousted Logos and EA while claiming the moral high ground because they were bad, similar to how America made up a half hearted WMD excuse to invade Iran and then basically wrote it off by saying Hussein was a monster anyway so it was fine to oust him, and used the info of how evil he was as a smokescreen for the fact that he was basically ousted under false pretenses.

And if you believe Durandal started the war by arranging for the Gundam theft and Junius Seven drop himself, then you could say it was also a reference to the 9/11 conspiricy rumors of how it was done by the US government itself as an excuse to fire up the war machine and start taking the middle east.

None of that has to do with the Patriot Act though. I dont' think the Patriot Act was even a thing yet when Destiny was made.

Either way though, apparantly every country but Orb was some fraction of post 9/11 Bush run America.

One could say that the Archangel's actions could be representing America's foreign policy post-9/11 (think Team America: World Police ["ARCHANGEL, FUCK YEAH!"]).

[Admiral Larsen]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

One could say that the Archangel's actions could be representing America's foreign policy post-9/11 (think Team America: World Police ["ARCHANGEL, FUCK YEAH!"]).

If that is true then they should be considered the antagonists and such and should have been hunted down like the dogs they are.

[Rising Dragon]

I think you're reading way too much into this, Washu.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I think you're reading way too much into this, Washu.

I'm just keeping the ball rolling.


Off-topic: Has it been hinted that Djibril could be a patsy? The only time it was hinted, AFAIK, was when Durandal "thanked" Djibril after Rey killed him.

[Aquaman OS]

Oh it was almost certainly implied that Durandal was playing Djbril and letting him be an evil monster so he could look like a saint in comparison and give him an excuse to "Save" the Earth. Remember how Djbril spends most of the early show in his hidden bunker laughing about nobody knows he's really pulling the strings only for Durandal to expose him the instant its the best time to? (and made clear by his speeches that he knew about Djbril from the start)

Djbril gave Durandal exactly what he needed at every turn. Every stupidly evil move he made gave Durandal an excuse to move in while looking like the good guy. Any country Djbril was gave him an excuse to send Zaft troops there. He's not even lying because Djbril really was that bad, Durandal just already knew about him and let him do his thing. Even his final Requiem act both united the Plants with Earth and gave him a death laser of his own.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Oh it was almost certainly implied that Durandal was playing Djbril and letting him be an evil monster so he could look like a saint in comparison and give him an excuse to "Save" the Earth. Remember how Djbril spends most of the early show in his hidden bunker laughing about nobody knows he's really pulling the strings only for Durandal to expose him the instant its the best time to? (and made clear by his speeches that he knew about Djbril from the start)

Djbril gave Durandal exactly what he needed at every turn. Every stupidly evil move he made gave Durandal an excuse to move in while looking like the good guy. Any country Djbril was gave him an excuse to send Zaft troops there. He's not even lying because Djbril really was that bad, Durandal just already knew about him and let him do his thing. Even his final Requiem act both united the Plants with Earth and gave him a death laser of his own.

Basically, Durandal was an opportunist; Djibril did his own thing, and Durandal capitalized on it.

In sports team terms, Djibril provided Durandal with bulletin board material to motivate ZAFT/the PLANTS.