Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by Rah

I think I haven't seen Chiharu on Ayumu's birthday. She suggested it, but doesn't go herself? She doesn't have to bring a gift, as they don't know each other, but she could have went to meet her, or at least congratulate her, right?

I don't get it...

Well, I might be wrong here, but if I'm not...

*sigh*

Hata....

What's wrong Sacchin? Are you sad (or bored) of whats happening recently Sacchin? Too bad its not going your way sacchin.

Don't be sad sacchin, it makes other people sad too sacchin..

Sacchin..

[Mentar]

As expected, a nice happy ending to a pretty creative chapter

But I have to say that my heart was _bleeding_ for Ayumu when she was walking home, completely crestfallen, and thinking "Hayate-kun mo... Nagi-chan mo... yappa watashi no koto nante doudemo ii no ka na" (Hayate-kun too... Nagi-chan too... I guess I don't really matter to them after all)

Ow. Seriously ow. Even though the resolution was really really sweet, this moment really stung.

*Ayumu fanboy in pain*

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Mentar

As expected, a nice happy ending to a pretty creative chapter

But I have to say that my heart was _bleeding_ for Ayumu when she was walking home, completely crestfallen, and thinking "Hayate-kun mo... Nagi-chan mo... yappa watashi no koto nante doudemo ii no ka na" (Hayate-kun too... Nagi-chan too... I guess I don't really matter to them after all)

Ow. Seriously ow. Even though the resolution was really really sweet, this moment really stung.

*Ayumu fanboy in pain*

Hoping that the arc isn't over, there's still the possibility of Hayate walking her home after the party. Possibly ordered to by Nagi, maybe having his foot stomped by Hinagiku when he tries to object?

[Used Can]

Man, I think Ayumu is slowly becoming the bond in the group, probably as much as Hayate.
I mean, she's already befriended Hina and Nagi, who are like the difficult girls. I'm sure the other girls can come along with time.
Now, if she ever meets Athena, and befriends her too, I guess we can forget about Hayate, and have this become Ayumu's lesbian harem.

I, for one, welcome our lesbian overlords.

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Hoping that the arc isn't over, there's still the possibility of Hayate walking her home after the party. Possibly ordered to by Nagi, maybe having his foot stomped by Hinagiku when he tries to object?

Personally, I'd find it terribly off-putting if something like that does happen, and Hayate goes due to pressure and not out of his own will.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Man, I think Ayumu is slowly becoming the bond in the group, probably as much as Hayate.
I mean, she's already befriended Hina and Nagi, who are like the difficult girls. I'm sure the other girls can come along with time.
Now, if she ever meets Athena, and befriends her too, I guess we can forget about Hayate, and have this become Ayumu's lesbian harem.

I, for one, welcome our lesbian overlords.

Hina and Nagi and all of the others have the personality to make it work, and Ayumu is working to get herself accepted by them because it will keep Hayate in her life.
Athena doesn't have the personality, nor the connections to Hayate to make Ayumu even consider the possibility.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Personally, I'd find it terribly off-putting if something like that does happen, and Hayate goes due to pressure and not out of his own will.

It was already done once, the Shimoda Hot Springs arc. Besides, Ayumu would be glad to spend time with Hayate regardless of the reason, and she would find a way to try to drive Hayate into Hinagiku's arms (again).

[madmac]

Haven't read it yet, (You guys are too fast! *shakes fist*) but the backstage comments kinda made it sound like the mini-arc was over. More "Well that was fun" then "continues next week" if you know what I mean. Maybe we'll get something in the transition over to the next story, though.

Man, I think Ayumu is slowly becoming the bond in the group, probably as much as Hayate.
I mean, she's already befriended Hina and Nagi, who are like the difficult girls. I'm sure the other girls can come along with time.
Now, if she ever meets Athena, and befriends her too, I guess we can forget about Hayate, and have this become Ayumu's lesbian harem.

I would read the hell out of Ayumu's spin-off adventures in harem building. Who would have guessed that the "designated normal girl" would end up having so much heart?

[Game8910]

this is why Ayumu can sometimes be the best character in the series when she has her time to shine, I just love her character! <3

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Hina and Nagi and all of the others have the personality to make it work, and Ayumu is working to get herself accepted by them because it will keep Hayate in her life.
Athena doesn't have the personality, nor the connections to Hayate to make Ayumu even consider the possibility.

Ayumu is like those guys at Gurren-Lagann. She can make the impossible possible.

If you're going to drill, drill to pierce the heaven's. Athena's surname has the kanji for heaven on it. Go, go Ayumu.

Originally Posted by Game8910

this is why Ayumu can sometimes be the best character in the series when she has her time to shine, I just love her character! <3

This is something I've been saying from quite some time ago. Ayumu, being the normal girl, has accomplished this much. This may be my personal opinion, but I think she's accomplished much more than the other girls, even more than Hina and Athena, as the former keeps going in circles, and whilst the latter had a strong bond in the past, she's currently unable to build any sort of present with Hayate. I'd mention Nagi, but unless some sort of major twist happens in the future, I won't consider her a romantic interest.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, even if Athena is my favourite character, I wouldn't mind an Ayumu end at all. Back in the day, I thought it was impossible, but now she's really good friends with the main heroine, and she's best friends with the most popular girl in the manga. She's progressed and lot and she keeps on progressing. She demonstrates that hard work pays off, even when you fall along the way, as long as you keep on working, something will come out. This is something like what Mika*cough* I mean, Santa told Hayate, and Ayumu has not needed wealth, high IQ, great physical abilities or nothing great in particular other than unwavering determination to prove that much.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Ayumu is like those guys at Gurren-Lagann. She can make the impossible possible.

If you're going to drill, drill to pierce the heaven's. Athena's surname has the kanji for heaven on it. Go, go Ayumu.

It doesn't matter if Ayumu can do it, I have no doubt she could, it's that Athena's character suggests that she's not going to be open to it.
Nagi has Hayate working for her, the other girls go to school with Hayate. Those give Ayumu the drive to become part of their group.
Athena has neither of these qualities.
With no reason to try, coupled with a person who's unwilling to give it a chance, the likelihood of even a friendship between Ayumu and Athena is what's impossible.

[madmac]

This is something I've been saying from quite some time ago. Ayumu, being the normal girl, has accomplished this much. This may be my personal opinion, but I think she's accomplished much more than the other girls, even more than Hina and Athena, as the former keeps going in circles, and whilst the latter had a strong bond in the past, she's currently unable to build any sort of present with Hayate

Well, I adore the Hamster, but...

The thing with Ayumu is that while she's made great strides in forming relationships with other girls, her relationship with Hayate hasn't progressed much from where it started. To her credit, she's been upfront about her feelings for him since her introduction, but her development keeps moving her firmly towards "friend" territory, to the point where Ayumu herself recognizes that she wants to be around Hayate more then anything else and can come to terms with him choosing someone else.

I don't disagree on your assessment of Hina and Athena though. Athena has made herself a non-factor until she at least shows up again and does something, and Hina is still exactly where she's been since her birthday arc.

I'd mention Nagi, but unless some sort of major twist happens in the future, I won't consider her a romantic interest.

This always bemuses me a bit. I consider the relationship between Nagi and Hayate to be the entire premise of the series, and Hayate choosing any other girl would be a huge upset. (Not impossible, just unexpected.) If nothing else, I don't think it's remotely a coincidence that all the drama of the Golden Week Arc came down to Athena vs Nagi while Hina and Ayumu got the big sis talk from Yukiji about how life doesn't always give you what you want.

I also think it's pretty telling that Nagi started showing real signs of increasing emotional maturity during Golden Week and is rapidly growing into a different character ever since. I mean, there's barely more then a hint of the old jealousy/misunderstandings that used to be everyday life for her, (I'm starting to think Nagi really did figure things out and that's what she meant by "words only cause misunderstandings" back in 253) and even Hayate has been giving her the "who is this pod person and what have you done with the real Nagi" stare every couple of chapters now.

It doesn't matter if Ayumu can do it, I have no doubt she could, it's that Athena's character suggests that she's not going to be open to it.
Nagi has Hayate working for her, the other girls go to school with Hayate. Those give Ayumu the drive to become part of their group.
Athena has neither of these qualities.
With no reason to try, coupled with a person who's unwilling to give it a chance, the likelihood of even a friendship between Ayumu and Athena is what's impossible.

If anyone could do it, Ayumu could, but it's true she'd need a better motivation then she has now. It's impossible to speculate about Athena right now though. She's been gone long enough that there's no telling what'll happen when/if she returns. The whole relationship dynamic (Especially with Chiharu and Luca jumping in) could end up being very different then it was when she exited.

Edit: Finally saw the actual chapter. Dawww...

[Game8910]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

It doesn't matter if Ayumu can do it, I have no doubt she could, it's that Athena's character suggests that she's not going to be open to it.
Nagi has Hayate working for her, the other girls go to school with Hayate. Those give Ayumu the drive to become part of their group.
Athena has neither of these qualities.
With no reason to try, coupled with a person who's unwilling to give it a chance, the likelihood of even a friendship between Ayumu and Athena is what's impossible.

i do wonder why you keep thinking Athena doesnt have the personality to become friends with her, sure she has been alone for a long time and she tries to avoid people because they always took advantage of her in the past, but I fail to understand why you think she wouldn't become friends with Ayumu if the opportunity arises...I mean Athena was friends with Hinagiku in the past was she not? Sure she got mad when Hina called her A-tan but now that this whole issue with Hayate is done, there is no reason for her to get offended by such things.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Game8910

i do wonder why you keep thinking Athena doesnt have the personality to become friends with her, sure she has been alone for a long time and she tries to avoid people because they always took advantage of her in the past, but I fail to understand why you think she wouldn't become friends with Ayumu if the opportunity arises...I mean Athena was friends with Hinagiku in the past was she not? Sure she got mad when Hina called her A-tan but now that this whole issue with Hayate is done, there is no reason for her to get offended by such things.

The way Athena left suggests that this is how Athena intends to continue acting. There was no Midas (that we know of) influencing her interaction with Nagi, and it didn't seem at all to be friendly or even interested in being friendly.

Neither was it suggested that Athena is going to be interacting with anyone without using Hayate for some purpose. Since Ayumu is looking to interact in a friendly manner with those who interact with Hayate, and Athena appears to want to manipulate things around him (reminiscent of Mikado), the likelihood of a friendship between Athena and Ayumu is unlikely

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by madmac

Well, I adore the Hamster, but...

The thing with Ayumu is that while she's made great strides in forming relationships with other girls, her relationship with Hayate hasn't progressed much from where it started. To her credit, she's been upfront about her feelings for him since her introduction, but her development keeps moving her firmly towards "friend" territory, to the point where Ayumu herself recognizes that she wants to be around Hayate more then anything else and can come to terms with him choosing someone else.

I don't disagree on your assessment of Hina and Athena though. Athena has made herself a non-factor until she at least shows up again and does something, and Hina is still exactly where she's been since her birthday arc.

Hmm... I think there are different takes on this. To begin with, saying her relationship with Hayate hasn't progressed is right down not taking notice of all the things that have happened in the manga so far, I think.

Sure, in terms of a love relationship, it hasn't moved much. However, they started as barely friends in the beginning, with Ayumu having a mere crush on him at the beginning, only to be turned down by Hayate. However, eventually she got over from it and kept on pursing Hayate more earnestly, becoming more open with her own feelings as the story kept on moving, to the point in which she can speak about her feelings casually around Hayate, and even go as far as to kiss him (in the cheek).

Those are things no other girl, with the exception of Athena, can claim to have done.

Originally Posted by madmac

This always bemuses me a bit. I consider the relationship between Nagi and Hayate to be the entire premise of the series, and Hayate choosing any other girl would be a huge upset. (Not impossible, just unexpected.) If nothing else, I don't think it's remotely a coincidence that all the drama of the Golden Week Arc came down to Athena vs Nagi while Hina and Ayumu got the big sis talk from Yukiji about how life doesn't always give you what you want.

I also think it's pretty telling that Nagi started showing real signs of increasing emotional maturity during Golden Week and is rapidly growing into a different character ever since. I mean, there's barely more then a hint of the old jealousy/misunderstandings that used to be everyday life for her, (I'm starting to think Nagi really did figure things out and that's what she meant by "words only cause misunderstandings" back in 253) and even Hayate has been giving her the "who is this pod person and what have you done with the real Nagi" stare every couple of chapters now.

Nagi's growth in the manga is something that cannot be questioned. She's definitely been maturing from the beginning of the story up to this point. However, up until now, not even once, has there been any form of romantic development between the two of them. In fact, so far, their relationship has been built as that of family - almost like a father and his daughter, or an elder brother and his little sister. One could even say that trying to change that would simply be derailing from the developments that have been had.

This is why I said I don't count Nagi as a romantic interest. If things change in the future, and she starts getting romantic development, then that'd be a completely different story. Until then, I simply cannot put her in that category.

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Ayumu is like those guys at Gurren-Lagann. She can make the impossible possible.

If you're going to drill, drill to pierce the heaven's. Athena's surname has the kanji for heaven on it. Go, go Ayumu.

Ayumu befiended Hina and Nagi because of a common connection that hey share, the fondness (or we could say love) for the butler. So I could say that Ayumu shares their ground without feeling distant as much as I could per say, Athena. Ayumu befriended the other girls because she knows that befriending them is beneficial to them and herself which is well being around Hayate even if the other girls are advancing, which is something they are still not able to do this far in the manga. It will change when an equally straightforward girl (or even moreso) such as Ayumu joins in the battle. If an aggressive girl appears strong, Ayumu and the other girls would band together, which is why I see Athena going to have to fight for Hayate with the other girls acting as a barricade since I'm going to suppose that Athena WILL start from a clean slate again (that is, going to court Hayate without actually using their connection 10 years ago).

And LOL You really want this to turn into a polyamorous yuri series? What have you been seeing in your dreams!? Share them with me!!

Originally Posted by madmac

Well, I adore the Hamster, but...

The thing with Ayumu is that while she's made great strides in forming relationships with other girls, her relationship with Hayate hasn't progressed much from where it started. To her credit, she's been upfront about her feelings for him since her introduction, but her development keeps moving her firmly towards "friend" territory, to the point where Ayumu herself recognizes that she wants to be around Hayate more then anything else and can come to terms with him choosing someone else.

I don't disagree on your assessment of Hina and Athena though. Athena has made herself a non-factor until she at least shows up again and does something, and Hina is still exactly where she's been since her birthday arc.

She has her chances. Chances are that she'd appear in the most unexpected time where Ayumu is like already progressing to the next step with Hayate (bawww LOL) and foil everything again.

I don't know whether Hayate would friend zone her or not, but its also a possible outcome, but as Hayate always does, he would summon a very ear deafening band of circus band in Ayumu's confession or gets hit by an otaku bomb from Nagi and stuff.

Hina might as well trap Hayate and have her and Ayumu confess at the same time, to know whether whom Hayate chooses would beneficial for the both of them, that is to prevent a long one-sided relationship.

Sorry I'm really biased to Athena, so I think that her appearance would also start the progression of the other girls' relationships, that is rushing to band in against a big and powerful boss. If other girls couldn't even get Hayate notice and Athena doing it easily in ch261, I doubt they're going to win him alone. We could might as well say that Athena would drag Hayate into an empty room halfway in the night and command him to well, you know.

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

The way Athena left suggests that this is how Athena intends to continue acting. There was no Midas (that we know of) influencing her interaction with Nagi, and it didn't seem at all to be friendly or even interested in being friendly.

Neither was it suggested that Athena is going to be interacting with anyone without using Hayate for some purpose. Since Ayumu is looking to interact in a friendly manner with those who interact with Hayate, and Athena appears to want to manipulate things around him (reminiscent of Mikado), the likelihood of a friendship between Athena and Ayumu is unlikely

Nope, she has her magic mirror. I probably think that at the time Hayate entered hakuou she kept a close eye on him. And until she notices that he needs help with her lady raising money I'm going to assume that she's a spectator in this arc.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by leoblack9

Nope, she has her magic mirror. I probably think that at the time Hayate entered hakuou she kept a close eye on him. And until she notices that he needs help with her lady raising money I'm going to assume that she's a spectator in this arc.

The mirror is likely still in the Royal Garden, where she hasn't been since shortly after she and Hayate departed the first time.

[madmac]

Hmm... I think there are different takes on this. To begin with, saying her relationship with Hayate hasn't progressed is right down not taking notice of all the things that have happened in the manga so far, I think.

Sure, in terms of a love relationship, it hasn't moved much. However, they started as barely friends in the beginning, with Ayumu having a mere crush on him at the beginning, only to be turned down by Hayate. However, eventually she got over from it and kept on pursing Hayate more earnestly, becoming more open with her own feelings as the story kept on moving, to the point in which she can speak about her feelings casually around Hayate, and even go as far as to kiss him (in the cheek).

Those are things no other girl, with the exception of Athena, can claim to have done.

This is a fair point. The kiss scene in particular stands out. I guess the fact that I just can't see Ayumu making the final jump is biasing me a bit. That and I kinda figured they were closer friends in the past until Ayumu confessed suddenly and then AWKWARD and part of their relationship was getting back to how they were before. (Except not, because now Hayate knows how she felt) There's that dream conversation they have where Hayate mentions that it's been a long time since they talked the way they used to.

Nagi's growth in the manga is something that cannot be questioned. She's definitely been maturing from the beginning of the story up to this point. However, up until now, not even once, has there been any form of romantic development between the two of them. In fact, so far, their relationship has been built as that of family - almost like a father and his daughter, or an elder brother and his little sister. One could even say that trying to change that would simply be derailing from the developments that have been had.

This is why I said I don't count Nagi as a romantic interest. If things change in the future, and she starts getting romantic development, then that'd be a completely different story. Until then, I simply cannot put her in that category.

There a subtle hints here and there, IMO. For an early one, there's the scene with Hayate reflecting on why he suddenly flashed to Nagi while talking to Ayumu and for a brief moment he's like "does that mean I..." then he walks in and gets accidentally flashed by Nagi and decides that what he's feeling must be what a brother feels, not because he knows (He never had a sister) but because he doesn't know what else to compare it to.

Otherwise, I think it's just a difference in expectations. This isn't the kind of manga where Hayate is going to act overtly in love with a 13 year old girl, so it's goes without saying that their relationship will remain extremely understated unless/until Nagi grows older.

Er, in other words I don't expect a Nagi/Hayate ending to be anything but a very gradual one that doesn't get the sort of romantic development you're talking about until very late into the series. I still see her as the default winner, though. If nothing else, if she wasn't intended as the primary romantic interest, you'd expect some other girl would occupy that role and none of them really fit the mold.

Sorry I'm really biased to Athena, so I think that her appearance would also start the progression of the other girls' relationships, that is rushing to band in against a big and powerful boss. If other girls couldn't even get Hayate notice and Athena doing it easily in ch261, I doubt they're going to win him alone. We could might as well say that Athena would drag Hayate into an empty room halfway in the night and command him to well, you know.

That's where I thought things were heading until Athena made her sudden exit. There's too many unknowns now for me to really guess. How would Athena act towards Hayate if she showed up again? How would Hayate respond? I honestly have no idea until Hata gives some sort of actual indication in that direction.

[Rah]

Wow, this thread is actually moving. And quite fast at that.

Well, while I don't have anything very insightful to add to this very deep discussion you're having, I'll just say that I believe that most events in the manga don't really count or mean much, as first and foremost it's a comedy manga, and such tend to change quickly and unexpectedly.

Don't be surprised if some weird development takes place where Hayate ends up with Sonia, or some other character we haven't seen for a while. Yeah, I expect it to be absurd just like that.

Although, have you considered the possibility that their assumed "family like relationship" turns around after they realize that they've been this close to each other for so long, and haven't even realized how much they like each other (well, mostly Hayate)?

This might happen if they're ever separated by some event, or whatever plot twist that Hata might throw in. Perhaps even a date between the two as a dare from one of the side characters? That would be interesting to see.

Hayate has already been on a "date" (or even multiple ones) with Ayumu, and Hinagiku, and... well, I don't really remember who. I think he went out with Maria as well, right?

It would be about time for those two to go on a real date. I wonder how would Hayate take it if he found out about her feelings? And now that she doesn't have all the money in the world to "protect" her anymore.....

Hehehe...


Well, although absurd things may happen, I'll stick with what Hata said about the eternal love & protection thing, but I agree that it would be a huge upset if he went for anyone besides Nagi at this point. Especially if it was some girl from 10 years ago that's barely even shown.

Unless the manga continues for 200 or more chapters with that said girl present....

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by madmac

There a subtle hints here and there, IMO. For an early one, there's the scene with Hayate reflecting on why he suddenly flashed to Nagi while talking to Ayumu and for a brief moment he's like "does that mean I..." then he walks in and gets accidentally flashed by Nagi and decides that what he's feeling must be what a brother feels, not because he knows (He never had a sister) but because he doesn't know what else to compare it to.

Otherwise, I think it's just a difference in expectations. This isn't the kind of manga where Hayate is going to act overtly in love with a 13 year old girl, so it's goes without saying that their relationship will remain extremely understated unless/until Nagi grows older.

I think the story's actually gotten a lot closer to a Hayate/Nagi ending since her statement after breaking the stone. It seems more like what Hayate is looking for in a relationship is the maturity, which would be a good reason why he's said that he prefers older women (though age doesn't always equal maturity). So he might be starting to look at her as a romantic interest now, but he's still startled at how quickly she seemed to change. And he's still uncomfortable with the difference in age, but she might be able to convince him to overlook that.

As for Ayumu, I'm thinking the 'eternal' promises will be stretched to include her by the end. Eternal Love - Athena, Eternal Protection - Nagi, Eternal Friendship - Ayumu.
I think she'd be very pleased with herself for gaining that title for herself.

I don't really see any of those three 'winning' at the end, but they will be eternally thought of

[madmac]

I think the story's actually gotten a lot closer to a Hayate/Nagi ending since her statement after breaking the stone. It seems more like what Hayate is looking for in a relationship is the maturity, which would be a good reason why he's said that he prefers older women (though age doesn't always equal maturity). So he might be starting to look at her as a romantic interest now, but he's still startled at how quickly she seemed to change. And he's still uncomfortable with the difference in age, but she might be able to convince him to overlook that.

The way they act towards each other post Golden Week has been very interesting. I'm still not quite sure what to make of it. Hayate does seem more...introspective around Nagi lately, though.

Hayate has already been on a "date" (or even multiple ones) with Ayumu, and Hinagiku, and... well, I don't really remember who. I think he went out with Maria as well, right?

It would be about time for those two to go on a real date. I wonder how would Hayate take it if he found out about her feelings? And now that she doesn't have all the money in the world to "protect" her anymore.....

On the other hand, I'm all for this development. (He's been on one date with Maria, yes.)

In any case, I'd love some more spotlight time for the hamster, but it doesn't look like she's going to get it. Luca finally shows up next week, maybe?

[Rah]

Now I'd really like to see Hayate go on a real date with Nagi. Even if it was a "date", where he would remain completely oblivious for the entire time to her feelings, while she tries to make him notice her...

Sort of like the time with Hina and the amusement park.

Well, anyway, this week will be a double issue, am I right? So, we won't see a new chapter until next month, or will it be next month, so we won't see it then? Ah, it's all the same, regardless...

These double issues sure are a pain, eh? But at least Hata won't die of a fatal heart attack for no apparent reason, or >insert premature death cause here<.

That would seriously suck. Has a mangaka ever died before finishing his / her work?

Imagine following something for such a long time only for it to end abruptly like that....

......................

No, I don't want to imagine that! Waaahhhh!! >___<