2012-10-10, 09:20 | Link #1181 | |
Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
Quote:
This country isn't a democracy, it stopped being one for at least 30 years now.
__________________
|
|
2012-10-10, 09:28 | Link #1182 |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
|
@Sugetsu - what do you think a democracy is? Venezuela is currently a democracy. Ancient Athens with all its slavery and warmongering was a democratic city-state. I'm just saying that even though a country is a democracy doesn't mean you will agree with it's policies..
I may be odd, and it's impractical for this discussion, but recently I have been thinking of democracy like a technology you unlock in a Civ game. It's great in many ways, better than most other forms of government tried, however doesn't necessarily work that well depending on overriding desired policy outcomes and particular civilizations. Oh, and it's possible to be an imperialistic democratic nation. And.. One of my musings is what's the next technology we unlock? EDIT: And to be clear, the U.S. isn't nearly in as sorry a state as many other nations .. don't throw the baby out with the bath water.. |
2012-10-10, 09:37 | Link #1183 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Quote:
Though it is closer to an oligarchy now, but this can be shifted back toward a republic. |
|
2012-10-10, 09:54 | Link #1184 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
|
Quote:
How about following this saying from the Bull Mouse? Quote:
|
||
2012-10-10, 10:02 | Link #1186 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
|
Have I denounced peaceful assembly which does not continuously hinder the workings of daily life and turn wherever they are into some squatter camp? If I have, please link the post, since I'm certain I'm not particularly open to people changing my own words into something completely different.
|
2012-10-10, 10:27 | Link #1187 |
Senior Member
Author
|
There's an old saying in politics: "Incumbents rarely lose in good economies; they rarely win in bad ones".
And the US has a bad economy right now. People are looking for somebody to blame (and punish) for that, and the current American Administration becomes an easy target. The fact that Obama had a comfortable lead over Romney before the debates just shows what a very weak candidate Romney is. However, Romney has become a pretty good debater through a helluva lot of practice in the Republican primaries, while Obama was naturally rusty since he never had a primary challenge to go through this time. My sense is that your average swing voter (i.e. the people that ultimately will decide the US Presidential election) has been thinking the following: "Our current economy is garbage, and so Obama has been a disappointment as President. He doesn't deserve to be re-elected, but this other guy Romney worries me. He doesn't seem to care about most middle class Americans like me. I guess it's going to be another one of those elections where I have to pick the lesser of two evils...". So Obama's job is to either earn forgiveness or make his performance seem better than how its currently perceived (or make Romney seem unacceptable). Romney's job is to make himself seem acceptable, and make sure that the public doesn't forgive Obama. Romney's job is the easier of the two, so the fact he was completely failing at it until the debates shows his weaknesses as a candidate. But given how widely viewed the debates are, Romney is now starting to achieve the "acceptable" part (where perception is what is most important). Will he fully achieve it? That probably depends on how the rest of the debates go (and how many gaffes Romney makes for his side, and how many gaffes Biden makes for his side; Biden saying that the middle class has been buried over the past four years is one of the worst gaffes I've ever seen - Not as bad as Romney's 47% stuff, but it plays right into the narrative that the Romney Campaign wants to tell).
__________________
|
2012-10-10, 10:34 | Link #1188 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-10-10, 11:14 | Link #1189 | ||
Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
Quote:
Quote:
The ultimate goal of the GOP is to privatize everything. They want a laissez faire state, and Americans all over the country are supporting this idea even if it is against their own interest, why, because they can't think critically. The only way to change the US in my opinion is through some bloody revolution that I certainly don't want to take part of, or through the course of decades of intense protests.
__________________
|
||
2012-10-10, 11:17 | Link #1190 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
|
@Sumeragi : To be fair, getting worked up over unruly protesters only amounts to scratching the surface. Protests that have gone wrong, are wrong. But one doesn't cure diseases by bludgeoning their symtomps. It's but appropriate to set apart the actual problems to address from their reflections in public sphere, and avoid falling into the trap of getting too incited over the later. Frankly, you do come accross as setting the bar too low on how proper protesting should be so far, but perhaps it's only us being stucked in the emotional quicksand....
Oh and one more thing I should inform everyone in this thread about : don't romanticize democracy too much. No governmental system is immune to elite domination and corruption, including democracy of every incarnation. US has never been a perfect democracy. No country has ever been.
__________________
|
2012-10-10, 11:30 | Link #1191 | |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
|
Quote:
You say in your own words 1) There's nothing can be done, 2) There's some media conspiracy that shut down "Occupy" and 3) The country is already an oligarchy and this election could make it worse. I'm not going to address 2) because both sides, Dems/Reps point at the media and say it's being unfair to them. When they cover protests, the protesters say their message is being taken out of context and they're being censored.. and the more conservative say they're being "sensational." There's no conspiracy. But, for your points 1 & 3, they contradict each other logically. You get that right? The fact that it could be worse means that it also could possibly not be. The fact that the Republicans may not get elected means there is stuff you can do -- you could go out, volunteer, be part of the democratic electoral engine. Or maybe your time is otherwise too valuable? Donate money? Offer to round up people and drive them to the polls? Just because you don't necessarily see the difference you make doesn't mean you can't do anything.. Otherwise you're being apathetic and can't see how a single person contributes to the whole. Remember giant skyscrapers and all that humanity has accomplished, are at the end of the day .. built by men and women. A lot of them. One step at a time. @Aegir - Not trying to romanticize democracy, not at all (as you could see from my comment above), but we're here discussing political rhetoric, I'm not willing to give people a free pass to just state it here and walk away |
|
2012-10-10, 11:38 | Link #1192 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
|
It's just hard to see Romney winning. Obama wasn't in the shape for the last debate, but he still has everything else going for him. For anyone who doesn't like any of the big two can vote for any of the minor candidates that have no chance of winning should any come closest to your views. That will at least make a statement, regardless of whether it will be heard by anyone...
@wilx : I certainly didn't direct it to anyone in particular, especially you. I directed that to this thread in general. As for how I think of political debates in general, see my signature.
__________________
Last edited by Ridwan; 2012-10-10 at 11:49. |
2012-10-10, 15:12 | Link #1193 | ||
Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
Quote:
I could go on and on but if you don't agree with me there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Quote:
I am for something far more drastic and revolutionary called the Zeitgeist movement, which wants to do away with politics and corporations, among many other things, and for that I am doing way more than just talking about it.
__________________
|
||
2012-10-10, 15:36 | Link #1194 | |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
|
Romney to stop talking about former slain SEAL after mother's complaint
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8991JW20121010 Quote:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczyn...edium=buzzfeed Can we still talk of flip-flop if he change 8 time of position on this subject?
__________________
|
|
2012-10-10, 15:57 | Link #1195 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2012-10-10, 19:11 | Link #1196 |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
|
After the debate, which a lot of people think Romney 'won' (which is crazy, he didn't even stand by his positions and a lot of his points of debate didn't hold up well), people say Romney has regained some ground. Has it hurt the Obama campaign much? I see ABC News hyping this up, but I don't know how much of it is true, and how much of it is ABC News hyping things up (as we all know, TV News broadcasts always hype up things).
How negative has it been for the Obama campaign? Are their chances still good, it is just that Obama pretty much had an oppurtunity to send the Romney campaign to it's grave that night? How is Obama doing in the swing states, generally speaking, compared to Romney? How is he fairing a week or so after the debate? I know he had a good lead.
__________________
|
2012-10-10, 19:57 | Link #1197 |
Schwing!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Central Texas
Age: 39
|
People scare me sometimes...
CNN took a poll about PBS's budget... 7% of people thought they received about HALF of the US Budget...you gotta be fucking shitting me. 30% thought their budget was 5% They actually get 0.014% (22.3 million) and Romney wants to cut funding *facepalm* meanwhile we've spent like 5 trillion on our "War on Terror" -_- |
2012-10-10, 20:29 | Link #1198 | |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
|
Quote:
Oor maaybe...most of those votes were from goons from 4chan just trolling us all.
__________________
|
|
2012-10-10, 20:33 | Link #1200 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|