Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon - General Discussion

[JediNight]

What part of any of this requires using your head so far? It's overly complex by way of throwing it all onto the viewers lap at once, when a well written story would weave in new subplots over time. They also wouldn't need 5800 pages to tell the prologue...

3 episodes in and we still have no hook. Presumably something will finally happen in episode 4...

[serpiente]

I m totally hooked! With the world, with the super cool ninja (his eyes are in the cup!) and the mecha dragon, and the girls, and their (catsuits) outfits... and those siblings! I LOVE THEM! And the black mage couple... This show is so over the top, (maid cyborgs controlling ships and battling) ...and the fights that will come. This is epic otaku fantasy. It doesnt need logic to be enjoyable, but a sense of awesomeness. If the writer wanted to call this a prologue, tahts OK i dont care, Im happy there will be more to come!

[Aoi Toori]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

Isn't he amazing though? Futayo's all juiced up and the dude didn't even try hard and could keep up with her. Old people are overpowered.

yeah, that short scene was really surprise me, and that make me like him more. hope tadakatsu also as awesome as tadatsugu!
need more futayo though.

Originally Posted by Allen

Maybe a little earlier, but the new relationship chart after the third episode:

Spoiler:

http://brunhild.sakura.ne.jp/up/src/up519994.jpg

Originally Posted by stuopidget

Event time frame
(Warning: Big)

Spoiler:

http://i.imgur.com/BQk6k.jpg

thanks~ really nice updates here.

Originally Posted by Hooves

People are very quick if they can do that much in a day.

this anime has a lot of chara so it's tend to have a lot of event happening (maybe even several event on the same time) so I think the time-flow was acceptable. furthermore, kimi already hinted in ep 1 that the day will be a very busy day for them.

Originally Posted by serpiente

If the writer wanted to call this a prologue, tahts OK i dont care, Im happy there will be more to come!

100% agree!

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Kanamechan

You do realize that Wheel of Time is a rather juvenile, clichéd fantasy story that mostly serves to display the writer's spanking fantasies and his glaring issues with women, right? ^^

Horizon really isn't complex so far, nor particularly confusing. All of the things you complain about are actually explained in the show itself. I've never read the LN, and I understand the show pretty well.

Yes, you need to use your head a little to enjoy Horizon. This isn't exactly a bad thing, and I'm glad that there's such an anime again. Most anime these days are painfully shallow, so this is a breath of fresh air. It even has stupid fanservice for the neanderthals that might be watching.

Please don't ever read science fiction novels. If Horizon feels "overly complicated" to you, I don't know what a novel by Asimov (or, worse, Stanislav Lem) would do to you.

You need to use your head a little to understand Horizon. I don't think we've gotten to the "enjoying" part yet. For some people, just being asked to use their brains at all isn't enough to make a work quality entertainment (rather, such an attitude seems like it could potentially be a bit elitist to me...).

It's true that, so far, it seems like the core appeal in Horizon is in the fanservice otaku fantasy. I'm not above being able to appreciate such things, yet I wouldn't say that Horizon has been simply amazingly brilliant fanservice thus far either (on the level of, say, Strike Witches). My main hope for Horizon currently lies in the story, and unlike JediNight I'm going to be willing to wait for it, in part due to input from people in this thread. Still, though, I do agree with him that the introduction has not been the most graceful or engaging thus far.

[serpiente]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

You need to use your head a little to understand Horizon. I don't think we've gotten to the "enjoying" part yet. For some people, just being asked to use their brains at all isn't enough to make a work quality entertainment (rather, such an attitude seems like it could potentially be a bit elitist to me...).

It's true that, so far, it seems like the core appeal in Horizon is in the fanservice otaku fantasy. I'm not above being able to appreciate such things, yet I wouldn't say that Horizon has been simply amazingly brilliant fanservice thus far either (on the level of, say, Strike Witches). My main hope for Horizon currently lies in the story, and unlike JediNight I'm going to be willing to wait for it, in part due to input from people in this thread. Still, though, I do agree with him that the introduction has not been the most graceful or engaging thus far.

Well, I´ll try to sound like a mature guy this time, and not an excited brat who has just discovered fan service. If the "fantasy" setting here were your everyday cliche about powerfull warriors, mages, dragons et al., I´m sure I would have droped it after the first episode... Instead, I´m now studying middle age history like never before!!! Show has something appealing lurking behind the bizarro cast that I cant explain exactly, but I know is there.

But indeed, there are so many question... Is this "humanity who came from the sky" the same humanity we know? Or are they trying to reproduce mankind history like something foreign to them, sort of a legacy of some past ancestors about whom they doesnt know much? How do they pick up their roles? If in history books says "King X died in X battle", does that means the actual person playing this role as to die also? Was there "two humanities"? The ones who came from the sky and the ones who remained on Earth? The european Kings who conquer the lands of Far East ¿from where they come?
I have all kind of such questions, but I will wait patiently to be answered one by one as the episodes develops...

[Aoi Toori]

I'll try to help answering some of your question

Originally Posted by serpiente

Is this "humanity who came from the sky" the same humanity we know? Or are they trying to reproduce mankind history like something foreign to them, sort of a legacy of some past ancestors about whom they doesnt know much?

from the synopsis In the far future, humans abandon the devastated Earth and move to the upper world "Tenjo". But Tenjo and the law of causation collapse by a war and humans returns to the Earth, which has turns into an inhabitable planet except for Shinshu area.

from ep 1 ed
In a distant future, the world began to rewrite its history.
Humans once rose to the heavens like gods.
But they could not bring themselves to stop warring, and lost the power they had.
Thus, they were forced to return to the earth.

How do they pick up their roles?

from what I can get from masazumi stories, there will be some candidate for the roles and one of them will be chosen to bear the name of the historical figure

If in history books says "King X died in X battle", does that means the actual person playing this role as to die also?

you can read here about that.

Was there "two humanities"? The ones who came from the sky and the ones who remained on Earth?

again from synopsis Shinshu is too small to accommodate all the humans, so they duplicate the area and create "Juso Sekai"
so we could say that there are 2... hmm does civilization sound right? I think I prefer to use that. 1 is in shinsu (divine state), 1 is in juso sekai (harmonic divine state)

The european Kings who conquer the lands of Far East ¿from where they come?

seeing that juso sekai (harmonic divine state) invade far east/shinsu (divine state) and occupy it, I presume the european people are from juso sekai.... maybe

[Khu]

Originally Posted by Kanamechan

Please don't ever read science fiction novels. If Horizon feels "overly complicated" to you, I don't know what a novel by Asimov (or, worse, Stanislav Lem) would do to you.

"THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER."

(meanwhile, I'm glad someone said it has substance. Guess I'll watch the 2nd ep more carefully now ^^)

[serpiente]

Originally Posted by Aoi Toori

I'll try to help answering some of your question


from the synopsis In the far future, humans abandon the devastated Earth and move to the upper world "Tenjo". But Tenjo and the law of causation collapse by a war and humans returns to the Earth, which has turns into an inhabitable planet except for Shinshu area.

from ep 1 ed
In a distant future, the world began to rewrite its history.
Humans once rose to the heavens like gods.
But they could not bring themselves to stop warring, and lost the power they had.
Thus, they were forced to return to the earth.

Well, thanks ! (Or should I say nice try ?)
I mean, maybe I m too narrow minded, but I been gazing at those bits of text for quite a while since the show started, and I still found them not so clear (as if the words itself posses some "secret meaning"). For instance: I always read "Heaven", but not "sky" or "stars". Does that means "in the future people conquer the space and lived in space like in Gundan", or "They conquer Heaven and live among gods like... Well I dont know, some mystical world like in Saint Seiya?" Are those incubus guys, slimes, half dragons etc., a product of that "other dimension" civilization was able to reach?

(The law of causation (from wikipedia) if I understand correctly, it has to be with "events in the present being a consequence of events in the past" hence, nothing is arbitrary in life and nature. If such a powerfull law collapsed, does it means humanity conquered the power of gods, and therefore, they could surpass that law, and do everything they wanted? Or rather they conquer divine status but they werent able to behave with the almighty knowledge of gods?)

Originally Posted by Aoi Toori

from what I can get from masazumi stories, there will be some candidate for the roles and one of them will be chosen to bear the name of the historical figure

I see, this clarify things a lot! So, I wonder, the ones who decides if you re up to that role or not are those in power in Testament Union?

Originally Posted by Aoi Toori

you can read here about that.

Oh I see, so there is room for different developments... But well, you know, the butterfly effect, Back to the Future and all, if you change something in the past the following history will also change from there on... hence you can start history re-enacment as they say, but once is in motion, it will follow his own course instead of the predicted one. Well it is much clear anyway.

Originally Posted by Aoi Toori

again from synopsis Shinshu is too small to accommodate all the humans, so they duplicate the area and create "Juso Sekai"
so we could say that there are 2... hmm does civilization sound right? I think I prefer to use that. 1 is in shinsu (divine state), 1 is in juso sekai (harmonic divine state)

About Jusou Sekai, Ive learned from ep 02 that "it accomodate people from "the rest of the world". Does that means people from other dimensions?

Originally Posted by Aoi Toori

seeing that juso sekai (harmonic divine state) invade far east/shinsu (divine state) and occupy it, I presume the european people are from juso sekai.... maybe

Ah yeah... You re right in your guess. I believe, it doesnt occurs to me it could be that way, but thats very likely what happened.

I guess Im giving too much thought to a simply show... Buy anyway I kind of liked the way it makes me thinks in all that stuff. (BTW sorry for the random questioning)

[Sin Ansem]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

You need to use your head a little to understand Horizon. I don't think we've gotten to the "enjoying" part yet. For some people, just being asked to use their brains at all isn't enough to make a work quality entertainment (rather, such an attitude seems like it could potentially be a bit elitist to me...).

It's true that, so far, it seems like the core appeal in Horizon is in the fanservice otaku fantasy. I'm not above being able to appreciate such things, yet I wouldn't say that Horizon has been simply amazingly brilliant fanservice thus far either (on the level of, say, Strike Witches). My main hope for Horizon currently lies in the story, and unlike JediNight I'm going to be willing to wait for it, in part due to input from people in this thread. Still, though, I do agree with him that the introduction has not been the most graceful or engaging thus far.

I'm going with that this guy said. For all intents and purposes, this show is engaging mostly by its characters and how the archtypes bounce off each other in an entertaining way. The plot is introduced weakly at best, and people's frustration is entirely understandable if you can't catch what's going on because people get monologued in history class.

That being said, I have faith it will pay off very much, and hope that when it does, its popularity will carry it through many seasons (or at least make the manga or VN viable for the US).

[Allen]

From Kawakami's twitter/official site: “キミの枢要徳をチェック！！” (something like: Check your principal virtue). It contains a little story about the seven "principal virtues" (like hope, justice, courage) where you can find your virtue by answering Kimi's questions. Well, just to show the level of some questions here it goes the first one (rough translation):

"Fufu, imagine you just woke up. Then, what will you do? Think a little."

A. To change your mood, you'll go naked do a cold-water ablution. -> My choice, btw
B. Think that today finally something good will happen and wakes up in a good mood.
C. Do a love act from the morning.
D. Reads something in the bed.
E. The right style in the morning is to sleep for a second time.
F. Scream while waking up.
G. I sleep 12 hours everyday, so I won't woke up.

The nice thing about this is that you don't need to buy seven copies of the same single to read P-01s' comment about each of them. It confirms too that the "Kimi to Asama de" (With Kimi and Asama), bonus of the limited editions of the volumes 1, 3, 5, 7 of the BDs, are when they were still in the second year, so we'll finally get something about the older generation

Now let me see if I can get the other six...

[Concordia]

Sorry to ask something like this again but i was just wondering if anyone knows if they are releasing an OST for this?

I really like some of the insert songs but can't find any information about any of them anywhere, only the two endings and the opening

[Kaioshin Sama]

Slow build meet audience, audience meet slow build. I think you should spend a little time getting acquainted with each other.

[Allen]

Originally Posted by Concordia

Sorry to ask something like this again but i was just wondering if anyone knows if they are releasing an OST for this?

I really like some of the insert songs but can't find any information about any of them anywhere, only the two endings and the opening

Yep. 21/12/2011. Official site's link.

[Concordia]

Originally Posted by Allen

Yep. 21/12/2011. Official site's link.

Ah thank you

Didn't think to check the official site i'm an idiot -,-

[articuzwolf]

I have some qs regarding eps 3

so who were that again?

2 suspicious ppl inside weird pillow-like costumes that Toori prepared to scare the others?

are they Masazumi's Father and the old fat guy in the carriage?

(one is fat and one is thin, sure fit the description)

I certainly saw that pillow-like costumes in the carriage when Masazumi talks to his father

==

and why Toori's trying to enter the Remorse Way again? to get an eroge/galge?

I know that He's afraid/hate and never enter the Remorse Way since 10 years ago

so I don't think just becaue (Margot) Knight couldn't deliver it to him...

he would go that far just to get an eroge

[jeroz]

I thought Toori enters the path to confront his stigma, and just happen to get the eroge on the way, but who knows.....


though seriously, is Toori doing a Hououin Kyouma at the moment?

[Aoi Toori]

Originally Posted by serpiente

I guess Im giving too much thought to a simply show... Buy anyway I kind of liked the way it makes me thinks in all that stuff. (BTW sorry for the random questioning)

no problem, I only can help you a little anyway. for some detail like how's things happen if history change, the people that reside on earth, etc I still don't know the more specific explanation.
I'll be waiting for more eps (or the another season? lol) or maybe you can ask Allen if you're really curious.

Originally Posted by Allen

From Kawakami's twitter/official site: “キミの枢要徳をチェック！！” (something like: Check your principal virtue). It contains a little story about the seven "principal virtues" (like hope, justice, courage) where you can find your virtue by answering Kimi's questions. Well, just to show the level of some questions here it goes the first one (rough translation):

"Fufu, imagine you just woke up. Then, what will you do? Think a little."

A. To change your mood, you'll go naked do a cold-water ablution. -> My choice, btw
B. Think that today finally something good will happen and wakes up in a good mood.
C. Do a love act from the morning.
D. Reads something in the bed.
E. The right style in the morning is to sleep for a second time.
F. Scream while waking up.
G. I sleep 12 hours everyday, so I won't woke up.

The nice thing about this is that you don't need to buy seven copies of the same single to read P-01s' comment about each of them. It confirms too that the "Kimi to Asama de" (With Kimi and Asama), bonus of the limited editions of the volumes 1, 3, 5, 7 of the BDs, are when they were still in the second year, so we'll finally get something about the older generation

I saw that link on official web yesterday but don't understand what it is. Still dont really get it but, is this some kind of personality test hosted by kimi (and her weird answer)?
so this will be the bonus for BD in what format? animation, chibified animation (like the PV) or something else?

[Cosmic Eagle]

That bit with Horizon and Toori was sad as hell...imagine shouldering that pain for so long...

P-01s' song deserves a full single if you ask me...

[shishio]

Ummm, one question. Is Tori, our main protagonist just an idiot or is he hiding his intelligence/ power?

[Aoi Toori]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

That bit with Horizon and Toori was sad as hell...imagine shouldering that pain for so long...

P-01s' song deserves a full single if you ask me...

everybody has some kind of sad event happens to them, even someone as happy (and pervert) as toori. it's good he doesn't goes emo because of that but on the contrary is cheerful (with a little 'crazy')

and I also agree about her song.

Originally Posted by shishio

Ummm, one question. Is Tori, our main protagonist just an idiot or is he hiding his intelligence/ power?

Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon [Light Novel]

^ warning, many spoilers there