Clannad series - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[Wampbit]

Hmm, Clannad almost earned itself a perfect 10, but failed at the last hurdle. When I first saw it I didn't think much too it, the first few episodes I thought were fun, but standard melo-drama, not very original and not getting anywhere. I maintained this feeling all the way through both seasons, however it was simply done so well, every character was given unique life due to the way they could almost be real - I found you could associate with them, although at first seeming very shallow their characters gained depth, on occasion in very stereotypical manners, but none the less depth.

The story actually tugged on the heart strings which is quite an achievement for any sort of media, and the way everything was built up so perfectly, and at a pace that seemed sensible meant the major events actually hit you hard.

The problem: Episode 22 of ~Afterstory~, I couldn't stand it, one of the reasons I loved Clannad was due to it simply giving you the facts, things generally ended up happy, but it took toil and hardship, it took friends and help from reality. The fact that in 22 they reversed it, with slight meaning in the first 10 minutes or so, post that pretty much for the sake of a happy ending destroyed the whole thing for me. I really think 21 is a better place to end ~Afterstory~ and personally shall be denying the existence of 22.

[Tak]

The coming of episode 22 was foreshadowed throughout the entire first and second season. Certainly the illusion world was not there for nothing. It had a purpose, and that Clannad touched base with the supernatural throughout its entirety. You should have been expecting this, and certainly not because of a slight meaning in the first 10 minutes or so.

By denying episode 22, you are pretty much also denying the theme focus of this entire series.

Because what do we get in 21? The entire family of Okazaki dies, including Tomoya. There is no hope, the end.

- Tak

[Ithekro]

Also Episode 24 proves that the point of 16-21 still has meaning to Tomoya even with episode 22's exisitance. He remembers those events and they do effect him.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Also Episode 24 proves that the point of 16-21 still has meaning to Tomoya even with episode 22's exisitance. He remembers those events and they do effect him.

Just to add to this, we can say that Tomoya enjoys his life so much more and doesn't take anything for granted considering everything that happened to him prior to episode 22.

[Wampbit]

I agree with what is said above however what you seem to take for granted is that we want Tomoya to have a happy life - I realise it was foreshadowed and frankly expected something of the sort, however I just can't find it fitting for Clannad, for any other anime I wouldn't mind that much, but clannad is built around tragedy, and hopelessness - there is always a happy ending however such a large change doesn't really fit in with the atmosphere.
Also I simply liked the end of ep21 more, it had much more impact, offered closure, and didn't go back and make ep16-21 feel like nothing - I know he remembers them, that's made obvious in ep 22 itself, however from an empathetic point of view I can't see it effecting him in a way other than "Wow, I'm a damn lucky guy."
I admit that my words above were a bit harsh (and not fully thought out), ep 22 was not awful, in fact it was a perfectly good ending, but Clannad was not your perfectly good series, it was better than that - such a standard and relatively cliche ending didn't fit such a well made series.

Happy endings aren't always the best - I would have rather had hopelessness than an ending that, although happy, felt so 'average'.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Wampbit

I agree with what is said above however what you seem to take for granted is that we want Tomoya to have a happy life - I realise it was foreshadowed and frankly expected something of the sort, however I just can't find it fitting for Clannad, for any other anime I wouldn't mind that much, but clannad is built around tragedy, and hopelessness

And where did you get this idea?

Where did you get the notion that Clannad was a catalog of hopelessness and tragedy? Clannad had never been centered around hopelessness or tragedy. In fact, it is built around a concept completely opposite of your claims.

Although at this point its quite obvious that you have never played the game, this anime nonetheless is very faithful in regards to its adaption from the source material.

And the objective of the game? Seek happiness for every major character you encounter.

- Tak

[Archon_Wing]

But should the solution to the tragedy of 16-21 be undone so simply? What makes Tomoya and his family in particular deserve a second chance over anyone else? Why doesn't anyone else in the cast get a second chance? Just because we feel for them? I don't think that makes them exceptional enough. Just because the plot takes interest in you means you deserve a miracle.

And the truth is, the anime should be able to deliver the message through from the game. If it wasn't clear enough to an anime only viewer, then something went wrong somewhere.

I will answer my own questions soon, but I'd like to see what other people think.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

But should the solution to the tragedy of 16-21 be undone so simply? What makes Tomoya and his family in particular deserve a second chance over anyone else? Why doesn't anyone else in the cast get a second chance? Just because we feel for them? I don't think that makes them exceptional enough. Just because the plot takes interest in you means you deserve a miracle.

Actually, because of Tomoya, most of the major casts received a second chance.

- Tak

[Archon_Wing]

Well ok but they did not get their tragedies undone, such as Kotomi's parents. They did find peace with their problems but they still have to continue with it. I suppose I will restate the question.

"Why do Tomoya and Co deserve miracles, other than because they are important characters to the story?" Is working for happiness in and of itself deserving of happiness?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

"Why do Tomoya and Co deserve miracles, other than because they are important characters to the story?" Is working for happiness in and of itself deserving of happiness?

Right back at you, does that mean their entire family has to die in order to prove your point?

- Tak

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Tak

Right back at you, does that mean their entire family has to die in order to prove your point?

- Tak

Nope, that doesn't have to be.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Tak

Right back at you, does that mean their entire family has to die in order to prove your point?

- Tak

Well it would send out a powerful message about asking for miracles.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Haak

Well it would send out a powerful message about asking for miracles.

And defeat the purpose of this show entirely, wouldn't it?

Now, if you really want something unbelievably depressing, even worse than some of the segments in Clannad, I highly recommend Sky Crawlers.

By the end, you will think Romeo & Juliet had a happy ending that, and suddenly the grim future of Warhammer 40K would look bright and cheerful.

- Tak

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Tak

And defeat the purpose of this show entirely, wouldn't it?

Now, if you really want something unbelievably depressing, even worse than some of the segments in Clannad, I highly recommend Sky Crawlers.

By the end, you will think Romeo & Juliet had a happy ending that, and suddenly the grim future of Warhammer 40K would look bright and cheerful.

- Tak

So what was the purpose of the the show? If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Haak

So what was the purpose of the the show? If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?

Buddy, this is anime, fiction, its not meant to be real. I watch this to feel good. If I want to watch entire family getting slaughtered, dying of famine, warfare, and other troubles, there is CNN.

There is nothing difficult to understand about this show. It had taken painstaking steps in explaining the process through the illusion world. I highly doubt that you do not understand, more like some of you pretend not to buy into the idea.

This anime focuses on family, how they cope with difficulties, in addition to a dose of love, hope & miracles for good measure.

That was the theme of the game, you know.

- Tak

[dgreater1]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

But should the solution to the tragedy of 16-21 be undone so simply? What makes Tomoya and his family in particular deserve a second chance over anyone else? Why doesn't anyone else in the cast get a second chance? Just because we feel for them? I don't think that makes them exceptional enough. Just because the plot takes interest in you means you deserve a miracle.

And the truth is, the anime should be able to deliver the message through from the game. If it wasn't clear enough to an anime only viewer, then something went wrong somewhere.

I will answer my own questions soon, but I'd like to see what other people think.

They didn't get a second chance. Nothing was undone. The thing that has happened already happened. The dead didn't comeback to life. I'll give you another idea about it that is not about multi-universes because a lot seems to be misunderstanding its concept.

There are two or more twins, the other two or more twins was taken to somewhere really far not knowing that they had twins. We as a viewer, watched the first twins' lives not knowing that there were other twins because it concentrated too much on the first twin. After watching their growth, we had an unfortunate accident. We ended up with a really tragic end and grieve for them. We didn't realize that there were twins of them until someone steps in saying

"I feel sorry for them... I hope their twins don't end up with the same fate as them." A guy comments as he grieves as well.
"What...?" The other watcher was confused at what he said and looks sadly.
"Have you forgotten that they have twins, and believe it or not, they were married to the same twins as well."

The emotion is confusing, right? But whichever it is, THEY ARE DIFFERENT PEOPLE. The purpose of the ones who met their ends wasn't in vain. Anyway, as for me, I didn't see any miracles other than the lights flowing out of the town as Ushio was safely delivered and of course, Fuuko.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

If it wasn't clear enough to an anime only viewer, then something went wrong somewhere.

You're not watching a simple anime. This anime followed the path and gave enough hints and believe it or not, even GAMERS had hard time figuring out what the hell really happened in the GAME's True end. We are the ones going to interpret the ending with the use of the small hints given to us and not the producers answering the all question we have.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Haak

This is exactly why plot devices are made aren't they? You've only proved my point.

Uh, proved what? We were never talking about plot devices until you dictated that point just now. That being the case, I don't think I ever disagreed about certain elements of the show being plot devices, so I have no idea why the hell you are arguing with me nor do I see how that should interfere with the overall theme of the story, which was my point.

- Tak

[Haak]

Okay hold on everyones replying at a rapid rate and it's fucking up everything. Just bear with me coz I'm little confused now.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Haak

Just bear with me coz I'm little confused now.

You are also young, that happens.

- Tak

[dgreater1]

Originally Posted by Haak

Just bear with me coz I'm little confused now.

Don't mind me. I just like messing around people's head with analogies but I hope you get the idea of it because a lot seems to be complaining about reset, miracles purposes, theme, confusing, etc. etc.

The only thing I can say is, this isn't your average anime that you'll just watch and forget. Imagine crosswords puzzle where you connect words together