Little Busters - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

I guess anime-only viewer really got advantage here...

for me personally, I love this arc...
it's simple though... only about someone who can't accept death and running away from it (it's about how she can reset her memories by persuading herself that it's only a bad dream)
simple case... but it messed up because of her way to run away from it

Riki's solution makes me laugh a lot! I never expect he will only draw one page for the picture book... one picture and it solved with Nakama power! It's not a very good one because just imagine if one day Little Busters won't be able to be with her... She will revert to her old self again (but I guess it won't matter so much in this anime)

letting her to continue the story is indeed beautiful...

I like how they show how Rin mustered up her courage to talk to a lot of people (Rin and Kud in one episode? okay! I'm satisfied)
now, let's move to the twins' arc I guess...

Deep Analysis Mode On.

Actually, Riki's viewpoint was a little bit too small, but the point was to keep on smiling even in sadness, 'cus it exists. Which means, even if they all went away, the memories they will have made will not.

C'mon guys, you know sadness always exist in this world, but why can we still smile? Is it because of self-hypnosis / self-forgetting (like Komari)? Or simply because you can see what's the future ahead, still accepting the past and all of its cruelties... and its happy moments.

Don't get me wrong: I loved Komari's arc. Probably even more so than the other routes that would come (this is an opinion.) It was a route that keeps on hitting me quite close to home. More often than not, I can only smile when I forget the bad things.

[Linkark07]

I didn't believe I would shed some tears on this episode, especially since I didn't cry when I read Komari's route on the VN.

Good episode, the animation is getting better each day.

I believe though, this route was a little rushed. 4 episodes would have been the ideal.

[Kanon]

Little to no emotional impact once again. The drama felt so awkward and artificial. The resolution was hardly believable, it would have been better if Komari had been acquainted with the Little Busters for a longer time. I never got the impression she grew close to them, at least not to the point where they can become her crutches.

Riki should become a shrink, he's managed to solve the major psychological trauma of a person he barely knows in only two days. Good job. Actually, from my point of view, it's not solved at all, but I'm pretty we're meant to assume it is and that she's going to live happily ever after.

Originally Posted by Lukeman1884

Also, seriously? It took him all night to do THAT? I haven't even drawn a picture since middle school, and I'm pretty sure drawing some chicks with hair wouldn't even take 30 minutes.

I thought he drew a whole book but it was just a single picture
Can't believe it took him so long to do that. It didn't even look good.

[Ringil]

eh, I thought it did a pretty reasonable job of adaptation... I'm not sure why people are so shocked the route isn't that great overall (it really wasn't in the VN). I agree it probably would have been better if it was given another episode, but sometimes thing cannot be. I really do like the change so that it seemed the Little Busters would go out on a limb to help any of their members.

[Triple_R]

@Lukeman1884 and Kanon

I really think that both of you are being far too critical of Riki and his solution here. I'm going to explain why in this reply.

Originally Posted by Lukeman1884

From the perspective of someone with no LN experience, this episode just felt kinda awkward and rushed. I've always had issues with animes which present a character with a lifelong problem, then solve it in the space of a single episode with a pep-talk (Or a single picture of some poultry).

The reason why Komari's lifelong problem had become a lifelong problem is because her family had decided to allow it to become that rather than taking the hard and painful steps necessary to resolve it. In other words, their kindheartedness, as admirable as it is, caused Komari's family to become enablers of her trauma.

Basically, Komari had to be forced to face the fact that...

1) Yes, she had a brother.

2) Yes, he's dead and he's been dead for awhile now.

Komari's basic issue is that she was refusing to face the sadder elements of her reality, and hence creating comforting delusions for herself.

Kyousuke was right about how Riki was in an unique position to force Komari to face the reality of her brother (this is partly due to how Komari was starting to use Riki as a surrogate brother).

Komari took a big step in this episode - She accepted the existence of death, and how that means that life will include several moments of sad separation from friends and loved ones. She also learned (and this is admittedly somewhat implicit) that the best way to cope with the loss of loved ones is to realize that you have other loved ones still around you.

Now, yes, there's a bit more work to do here - Once she becomes an adult, Komari will likely separate from most/all of the other Little Busters, and she will need to realize the importance of making new friends during each new place in life that she finds herself in. But I would argue that this tends to come intuitively to most people, and hopefully it will come intuitively to Komari as well (if not, perhaps Riki will be there to help Komari cross this bridge when she comes to it).

And as for Riki's "solution", it seems to me like all he's doing is making her dependent on their group of friends, and that's gonna set her up for a massive mental breakdown if something happens to them. The Little Busters aren't gonna be together forever, and at this stage, something tells me she won't be able to handle that eventuality.

I completely disagree, for the reasons I alluded to above. I think you're being overly, and needlessly, pessimistic here.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Little to no emotional impact once again. The drama felt so awkward and artificial. The resolution was hardly believable, it would have been better if Komari had been acquainted with the Little Busters for a longer time.

Why? Why was it not believable? Is it that you don't find it believable that the Little Busters could care about Komari this much, this quickly?

Some people make friends very quickly, and remembering my own high school years, this is especially true of teenagers.

I never got the impression she grew close to them, at least not to the point where they can become her crutches.

She clearly grew pretty close to Riki. I mean, they even went out on a date together. I don't have a problem accepting Komari turning to him for comfort and help.

Riki should become a shrink, he's managed to solve the major psychological trauma of a person he barely knows in only two days. Good job. Actually, from my point of view, it's not solved at all

Balderdash. Like I argued before in this post, Komari took a big step forward in this episode. I think that you and Lukeman1884 are being overly dismissive and pessimistic about that. Getting a person to accept a sad reality that they've been deluding themselves about for years is no small matter.

[ookamigirl]

Komari was pretty sad looking this time.
Her flashback to childhood days with her brother was really nice.
It was more than obvious that she loved her brother very much.
Yes, she totally sees Riki as her substitute brother.
Everyone felt sorry for her which is normal considering the situation.
Looks like she had some sort of a reoccurring breakdown.
Riki really gave it his all to help her feel better.
That picture book was a really sweet thing to do.

[Haak]

That must be one seriously badly run hospital there. No doctors, no staff, no responsible adults whatsoever. They just a leave a little child alone with her dying older brother. Amazing really.

I think for me the drama fails because it's just way too simplistic. Whilst I'm enjoying plenty of other high school anime this season with characters concerned about their future ambitions, their relationships and how it affects their work or their relationships and how it affects their self esteem, right now I have to stomach the drama of a teenage girl that can't accept that sad things can happen. Sure what happened to her was tragic and traumatic and has left her clearly impaired (I honestly have no idea how any reasonable adult could expect her to function properly in an adult life when she grows up), which is why such a deep rooted problem needs much more complicated drama than just the typical "ganbaru".

[hussien-11]

honestly, I think that if anyone want to watch realistic drama, it's better to watch another show
this story is not meant to be that realistic, it's meant to offer fairy-tale-like stories
so that's why they always leave details that concerns real life, this isn't monster and it not meant to be
think about Kotomi's arc in Clannad for example, they never said anything about how she live alone, and even if she have any money
Key's works are simple, they try to be simple and magical and to deliver their messages in this way, sometimes they succeed, other times not very much. but that's why alot of people like them, people watch something to be entertained and moved, and key's works do achieve that in their own way. so I think that if we want to point out the show's weaknesses, we have to put it's simplistic fantasy-like nature in mind first.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by hussien-11

honestly, I think that if anyone want to watch realistic drama, it's better to watch another show
this story is not meant to be that realistic, it's meant to offer fairy-tale-like stories
so that's why they always leave details that concerns real life, this isn't monster and it not meant to be
think about Kotomi's arc in Clannad for example, they never said anything about how she live alone, and even if she have any money
Key's works are simple, they try to be simple and magical and to deliver their messages in this way, sometimes they succeed, other times not very much. but that's why alot of people like them, people watch something to be entertained and moved, and key's works do achieve that in their own way. so I think that if we want to point out the show's weaknesses, we have to put it's simplistic fantasy-like nature in mind first.

Yeah, some of the criticisms I'm reading on this thread seem odd to me.

Is Komari's arc perfectly realistic? No, of course not. But when has Key ever been perfectly realistic?

Key has always specialized in very eccentric female characters who either have unique problems, or have basic problems that are developing in highly unusual ways due to how eccentric the female character is (Komari is the latter case). There's the odd Key arc that feels like something one could reasonably expect to run into once or twice in real life, but they're the exception, not the rule.

Most Key arcs are honestly much weirder than what we faced here.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why? Why was it not believable? Is it that you don't find it believable that the Little Busters could care about Komari this much, this quickly?

That Komari feels the Little Busters can "replace" her brother is what I do not find believable. Once again, she barely knows them. They are little more than acquaintances at this point, the only exception being Riki. I felt the other members were really shoehorned into this.

As for them caring about Komari... what they did was mostly to support Riki, so I don't really have a problem with that.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Balderdash. Like I argued before in this post, Komari took a big step forward in this episode. I think that you and Lukeman1884 are being overly dismissive and pessimistic about that. Getting a person to accept a sad reality that they've been deluding themselves about for years is no small matter.

Aye, this is a big step, but it's only a first step. Such a major issue can't be resolved so easily, and yet this is exactly what Riki did (I would be pleasantly surprised if this was brought up once again later on, but I know that's not going to happen; this isn't how visual novel storytelling work. Komari's arc is over). That's my main complaint. There is no way anybody can accomplish what Riki did. You can argue it's not meant to be realistic, but making it at least slightly believable wouldn't hurt.

[Klashikari]

If you were to compare this arc with other series, it is -really not- a matter of how weirdier or not Komari is, compared to the other "problem girls". The problem is how the arc is catapulted so early, with really not as much events and interactions as there should be.
Also, regardless of the "brand" of a given series, you usually have a better scope of the series with the full introduction of all characters before engaging in that kind of plotline. Having a half introduction, half main heroine route is just jarring and make the narrative highly disjointed. Every romcom/high school drama at least give enough room for character intro and interactions before having the serious business, and that's for good reasons.

That's like having Clannad with half the interactions between Tomoya and Nagisa, no intro for Tomoyo and Yukine, and then having Fuuko route kicking right in ep4-5.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

That Komari feels the Little Busters can "replace" her brother is what I do not find believable.

Well, there's not much indication that she has friends other than them. In spite of her generally sunshiney public persona, she may have been a somewhat lonely individual before meeting Riki and friends. So I don't really have a problem with her latching on to them so quickly.

Don't get me wrong, this arc probably would have benefited from an extra episode or two, but that's because the emotionality of this feels half-cooked to me. It just wasn't given enough time to properly simmer.

Aye, this is a big step, but it's only a first step. Such a major issue can't be resolved so easily, and yet this is exactly what Riki did.

Honestly, I think you might be overestimating how hard an issue like this is to be resolved. Riki gets to the root of the problem, and addresses it forthrightly by forcing Komari to face reality. He uses a symbolic method of doing this which is fitting given the symbolism behind Komari's delusion.

It's a bit rushed, but I've seen major psychological issues solved like this in all sorts of anime shows, even putting aside Key anime shows alone. Heck, Riki's solution is more elaborate than anything I've seen in Kokoro Connect.

I really feel like Little Busters! is being held to an unreasonably high standard here, given what people let slide with most other offerings within the same entertainment medium (i.e. anime).

You can argue it's not meant to be realistic, but making it at least slightly believable wouldn't hurt.

I thought it was slightly believable. Honestly, I think you're making too much out of Komari's trauma. I really do think that it only became this bad because her family were enablers here.

[hussien-11]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yeah, some of the criticisms I'm reading on this thread seem odd to me.

Is Komari's arc perfectly realistic? No, of course not. But when has Key ever been perfectly realistic?

Key has always specialized in very eccentric female characters who either have unique problems, or have basic problems that are developing in highly unusual ways due to how eccentric the female character is (Komari is the latter case). There's the odd Key arc that feels like something one could reasonably expect to run into once or twice in real life, but they're the exception, not the rule.

Most Key arcs are honestly much weirder than what we faced here.

yup
to do this show it's justice, we also need to point out the positive points, not just the negative, there's people moved to tears by this episode, so there's gotta be a good reason for that, and this is yet the best animated and directed episode of the show, not extraordinary but still good

- the use of music was really good, I liked the instrumental version of song for friends
- the little busters as a team are really good people, they help others in the time of need, and - in my opinion - you don't have to know a person extremely well to help, simply there's people who care for others. all of them helped Riki and Komari and it was really touching
- the ending scene with song was well directed and satisfying in my opinion

it may not be as amazing as Fuko's arc for example, but it's also better than many others of keys routes.

[Magicflier]

Originally Posted by hussien-11

yup
to do this show it's justice, we also need to point out the positive points, not just the negative, there's people moved to tears by this episode, so there's gotta be a good reason for that, and this is yet the best animated and directed episode of the show, not extraordinary but still good

and this is still on'ly the beginning XD

[Free]

I actually don't remember being this moved while playing the game.

[ThereminVox]

Am I the only one who finds Komari's previous outlook on life distressing in retrospect?

I didn't think her problem seemed too serious until she started to think Riki was her brother. That was a red flag, and it made me realize what a mess she was. After that, all I could do was think back to her whole "happiness spiral" philosophy as being kind of creepy. Then there was that weird moment when Riki saw up her skirt, and she declared that if they agreed "it never happened", it would solve the problem. It seemed like a moment of cheap idiot-moe at the time, but in hindsight it comes off really dark.

While Komari's story itself didn't move me, I found myself very touched by Riki's relationship with the Little Busters, and how he compared his own traumas to Komari's. I am totally fine -- impressed even -- by the near-romantic affection he is shown to possess for Kyousuke, though I fully expect it to be made into a joke eventually. Key has never seemed the type to be able to play such affection for anything but laughs.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

I am totally fine -- impressed even -- by the near-romantic affection he is shown to possess for Kyousuke, though I fully expect it to be made into a joke eventually. Key has never seemed the type to be able to play such affection for anything but laughs.

Eventually for anime only viewers...cause the VN players seem to always gravitate to that whenever romance enters a discussion...seriously, if Kyousuke was the MC Riki would totally be the final girl...

Also if calling Riki her brother raised a red flag...you should see the bad end of that route xD

[Eater of All]

I've never actually found Komari's story itself all that interesting (VN or here), but I think the anime did a pretty decent job of portraying the tight bond within Little Busters. It's something that I can see happening in real life; close friends get worried when a member is in trouble, they come together to discuss what to do, they try stupid things to cheer someone up, etc. Riki's speech was real smooth, even artificially so, but it was in the end a product of the support from the whole of Little Busters.

That's what I take from this arc, anyway. Friendship is as much an overall theme here as family was for Clannad, and it should pay off sooner or later.

[Soliloquy]

It was pretty good. It didn't feel too forced. Riki's method of helping Komari out was tad quick but was the right method to help someone still in mourning. Leave it to Key Works to make the female characters moe overboard. Also, it was unrealistic from the beginning there are group of youth having fun and voluntarily helping out at the seniors home just purely for altruistic intention and just being so brotherly and generous to each other.

[monir]

Anyone else here is watching Zetsuen no Tempest? I just stumbled into it and finished watching episode 5. This single episode of Buster essentially had three times the story than the 5 episodes of Zetsuen no Tempest combined. And yet I think Tempest is probably the best paced show of Fall 2012 among all the new shows.

By the end of this episode, all I could think of was, what a waste! This episode pretty much made it clear that the current direction is not up to par at capturing the story of this show.