Sword Art Online - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Rovert10]

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

When I see about a third of the votes comprising of 6s or 7s, I don't think I'm over-exaggerating for what was a completely fine episode.

Anyways, I rather hear and would be perfectly fine with criticisms based on the actual anime ep itself instead of "oh they didn't add this and this from the LN, therefore it's disappointing." That's not a criticism of the episode itself, but rather a grudge for not faithfully adapting the source.

Depends on what you see as "fine". Fine can be good or average which is what 6 or 7 indicates. Obviously they liked the episodes but had their sentiments.

Not adding certain material from the source one can be bad for the story overall that you may or may not find out till later. Most LN readers don't expect a perfect adaption even though at times it seems like it. Important points for character development may be left out and etc.

I have my sentiments but I gave it a 8 regardless.

[Eratas123]

Just wondering: Why are the beta testers being so prejudiced against for using any advantage they have? They're human beings, not angels or knight's in shining armor. Maybe it's just me, but as a practical person you can't go around saving every stupid person's ass when they're too stupid to read the manual in a game where you can die.

I believe in the concept of human decency and goodness, but the Beater's are under no obligation at all to help them. They shouldn't act like the tester's owe them any favors just because they got the game a couple of months early. If the beater's were PKing then I'd understand, but they're looking out for themselves, same as any person would in that situation.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Eratas123

Just wondering: Why are the beta testers being so prejudiced against for using any advantage they have? They're human beings, not angels or knight's in shining armor. Maybe it's just me, but as a practical person you can't go around saving every stupid person's ass when they're too stupid to read the manual in a game where you can die.

I believe in the concept of human decency and goodness, but the Beater's are under no obligation at all to help them. They shouldn't act like the tester's owe them any favors just because they got the game a couple of months early. If the beater's were PKing then I'd understand, but they're looking out for themselves, same as any person would in that situation.

They should be thankful if they had an ally who is a tester. They knew the path to beat the game.

[xKeir]

Originally Posted by Eratas123

Just wondering: Why are the beta testers being so prejudiced against for using any advantage they have? They're human beings, not angels or knight's in shining armor. Maybe it's just me, but as a practical person you can't go around saving every stupid person's ass when they're too stupid to read the manual in a game where you can die.

I believe in the concept of human decency and goodness, but the Beater's are under no obligation at all to help them. They shouldn't act like the tester's owe them any favors just because they got the game a couple of months early. If the beater's were PKing then I'd understand, but they're looking out for themselves, same as any person would in that situation.

I had the same point of view but i guess thats just making comments in hindsight. The reality of facing real death probably makes those ppl think irrationally and their actually probably desperate [?]

But then again.. I tried putting myself in their shoes and... well. I would be pissed, if i knew a friend who had a slight advantage and refused to 'help' me. I guess it's b'cuz in this game when u get a game over its literally game over for u in ur life.

It's all neutral and really i don't find anyone at fault here. Just.

HUMANS.

[Kafriel]

Thing is, the game has changed and nobody made it too far anyway...and people act as if beaters have an in-depth walkthrough of the whole game If I was in that kind of situation, I'd check the message boards for info while slowly grinding and playing it safe, slowly progressing and maybe getting a party/guild.

[Rovert10]

Originally Posted by MagicaLideaL

There is a part which i am very confused with which is the town system.

When the player first entered into the game, the town they first started is the beginner town. Isn't the beginner town's castle the place where the bosses stayed? I thought all the bosses are in the same building which is the tall castle in the beginner town. But how come Kirito mentioned that 1 month has passed and they are still unable to find out where the first boss is. If the boss is not inside the beginner town castle, does that mean the game has many towns and the boss are spread all around the world?

Each level has a main town or city. Surrounding this city you may have other villages but it's mostly comprised of various fields and such filled with mobs. The boss room is hidden around inside a dungeon. The first level is no different.

Originally Posted by Eratas123

Just wondering: Why are the beta testers being so prejudiced against for using any advantage they have? They're human beings, not angels or knight's in shining armor. Maybe it's just me, but as a practical person you can't go around saving every stupid person's ass when they're too stupid to read the manual in a game where you can die.

I believe in the concept of human decency and goodness, but the Beater's are under no obligation at all to help them. They shouldn't act like the tester's owe them any favors just because they got the game a couple of months early. If the beater's were PKing then I'd understand, but they're looking out for themselves, same as any person would in that situation.

Why do gamers complain consistently when they don't get what they want?
Everybody feels entitled to something at times but this got really serious when your life is on the line.

[MagicaLideaL]

Originally Posted by Rovert10

Each level has a main town or city. Surrounding this city you may have other villages but it's mostly comprised of various fields and such filled with mobs. The boss room is hidden around inside a dungeon. The first level is no different.


Why do gamers complain consistently when they don't get what they want?
Everybody feels entitled to something at times but this got really serious when your life is on the line.

Thank you very much for clearing my confusion I think i perceived that all the boss are in the same castle just different floor when I saw the tall castle at the beginner's town.

Some people tends to complain a lot and always put the blame on others regardless of the situation. It is not necessary just because of their life is on the line though it might be one of the reason as well.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Starlightz

That's IS criticism of the episode's storyline, just saying. It's okay to remove small, unimportant bits / characters, but when they even remove important parts, which might lead to misunderstanding or downplaying some characters / part of story, I think we should be able to say the storyline was lacking compared to how it would be.

No it's not and really all it does is further add to my argument.

Leaving bits and pieces (albeit important or not) from the source material is by default a criticism of not faithfully adapting the source. I would like people explain to me why they thought the episode was poor, be it in the character of Kirito/Asuna or in the virtual reality plot itself on the anime episode's basis.

For example, several posters have queried about how people in the real world are maintained - are they on life support, or do their families feed nutrients etc. THAT is an example of a valid criticism of the anime ep itself since that could be a major plothole if not explained. Of course, people are either merely speculating or deliberately not answering since that would be a spoiler.

What is exactly wrong with the character of Kirito or Asuna atm from an "anime-only" perspective regardless of how the source portrays them? To me they seem far better than your average milquetoast, whiny or bloodshot shonen male lead or your weak-willed or overly-violent female lead that seems to plague the industry atm. Kirito is shown to be quite gray from a moral point of view (neutral from an alignment point of view) and Asuna is no damsel in distress. Compare that to the characters in SAO's sister series Accel World, in which the quality of how the characters are portrayed in their respective anime versions (regardless of source) is the difference between the floor and the sky. But really going back to my question, what is exactly wrong with the character of Kirito and Asuna? Are they too passive, aggressive, "generic" or what?


I've also been seeing posts that are considering that this episode should be split into two. Imo, that's the worst thing to do for such a series. 2 cours isn't exactly a staggering amount of episodes, and there's plenty of series out there where 2 cours seemed insufficient. There's a lot of source material to cover here, and the last thing you want to do is to split this episode into two for something that imo not even that significant. It's the goddamn FIRST boss lol and there's like what, 100 floors?

Maybe I'm taking a different philosophy when it comes to anime. Some people seem to think an anime's job is to adapt as faithfully a particular source material. My view is that an anime's job is to portray its own story using a source as the basis. That's a primary reason why I enjoy anime originals more often than not because the production staff don't have to worry about this "pleasing the fanbase" factor and can just focus on the goal of making a good anime on its own right.

And yeh, the poster who mentioned HBO Game of Thrones vs Game of Thrones Books is spot on. The TV's version of Battle of Blackwater/Westeros was superb in its own right (was compared to Battle of Helm's Deep in Lord of the Rings), yet book readers decide to jeopardise its effort by complaining that bits and pieces from the book is missing. I mean FFS lol.

[Rovert10]

@Pocari

This is what I ment by overreactions by Novel readers.

But it's the LN readers that made it possible for the Anime to be made (in Japan at least) so they have some sense of entitlement (maybe) if it's justifiable or not on how they think it should go.

My main issue is that you say that reading the LNs automatically means you can never get full enjoyment from their adaptions or something of the sort.

I watch it because I like seeing how they adapt it and overall I am quite satisfied.

[Eratas123]

What do Beater's have? They reached a few floors up ahead of everyone, they don't have a stack of cheat codes they refuse to give out or anything. It's not like they're infinitely more experienced.

[MartianMage]

Well I personally find the episode pretty good. I mean I did read a few chapters of the LN but not really enough to identify myself as an LN reader but yeah... I know the differences but I think the episode was pretty good.

As for the beater thing... in my long years of playing MMOs on their beta test and launch date this is actually the first time I'm seeing this kind of prejudice against beta testers well I have no idea about the culture of japanese mmo players but I think that is kinda far fetched. But then again with this author I'm not surprised if he just comes up with something silly from out of the blue. Kinda used to it by now from Accel World. I dunno this author just likes to pull something out of the blue like this sudden prejudice against beta testers or a sudden game feature or rule popping out of the blue to cause/finish a conflict.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Rovert10

@Pocari
But it's the LN readers that made it possible for the Anime to be made (in Japan at least) so they have some sense of entitlement (maybe) if it's justifiable or not on how they think it should go.

Maybe, but shouldn't they be more thankful that their source is getting an anime in the first place? Well unless if it's by DEEN or some really low-tier studio, but this is A-1 Pictures we are talking about, who are a top tier studio.

My main issue is that you say that reading the LNs automatically means you can never get full enjoyment from their adaptions or something of the sort.

Maybe so, but when there's so much complaining by source fans that XYZ was ommitted or XYZ wasn't done sufficiently, I do question if LN fans in general ever get their full potential enjoyment levels reached.

I watch it because I like seeing how they adapt it and overall I am quite satisfied.

That's good to know and we need more people like you to judge the anime on its own merits despite being familiar of the source or not.

Not aiming this at you Rovert10, but I'm still waiting on a reply to explain why people thought Kirito or Asuna's character wasn't up to scratch from an anime point of view only.

[Kafriel]

As for the beater thing... in my long years of playing MMOs on their beta test and launch date this is actually the first time I'm seeing this kind of prejudice against beta testers well I have no idea about the culture of japanese mmo players but I think that is kinda far fetched.

What makes it all the more curious is the fact that as far as we know, the beta testers didn't get to keep anything, like a special BT-only item or a special package with bonus exp and stuff. Imagine what it would be like if that were the case

[Goddess Madoka]

Hmm...

The way I see it, all the hate is probably attributed to the fact that the game is a life-and-death situation, kinda like real life.

...now think about it, say you had a friend in real life who died due to poverty, and then some dude
who is filthy rich (due to inheritance) decides to burn his cash away for fun, literally.

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'll be pissed. In this case, the normal players hold a grudge against these players as it's kinda like that.... (maybe not really...)

Of course, there are probably tons of other reasons why there is hate. All it takes is one idiot to cause all that hate (e.g. that guy this episode)

Hmm... the beta testers are also hated probably due to the preconceived notion that they are selfish and only concerned for their own well being. (Hence the reason fof the "leaving behind us players to fend for ourselves" talk from that guy in this episode)

[Dengar]

I don't see why people are so weirded out about this prejudice against beta testers.

1) You are in a life threatening situation. 2000 people have died already, the threat of death is real.
2) You are pretty sure you did nothing to get yourself into this mess.
3) With very few exceptions, this is the point you people start looking for people to blame so they can take out your frustrations on them. This is how humans work.
4) The creator is out for lunch, and you can't touch him, so he's out.
5) Beta testers have, as far as you know, Strategy-Guide-Esque knowledge of this game, yet 2000 people have died. Ergo: The Beta testers have failed you.
6) You now have your scapegoat.


This is NOT idiotic, or moronic, or stupid. This is what people do naturally in situations of powerlessness and uncertainty. Read a book.


Kirito's idea of getting everyone to hate HIM rather than the other beta testers is the right idea. It gives people a target and makes them less likely to distrust one another.

[MartianMage]

That's what I label as "reality tv" logic where everyone gets stupid just because it's supposed to be real.

I don't know about you but I'd rather think about it as to what I'll do if I'm ever in that kind of situation and quite frankly I don't think I'll sink that low(keyword: think of course I don't think I'll ever know anytime soon as I don't see myself getting in a similar situation soon) I just don't buy this "humans are supposed to act like that naturally" BS.

[Hmm....]

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

Maybe so, but when there's so much complaining by source fans that XYZ was ommitted or XYZ wasn't done sufficiently, I do question if LN fans in general ever get their full potential enjoyment levels reached.

That's good to know and we need more people like you to judge the anime on its own merits despite being familiar of the source or not.

I do admit that my anime enjoyment is suffered greatly by reading LN beforehand.
Normally, I won't check LN, manga or any source material before watching any anime. If any LN, manga I like get adapted into anime, I usually don't watch those either. I know I will suffer ^^"
but SAO PV look interesting enough to make me watch the anime. And the anime is still good enough that I still bother commenting and waiting for episode 3. So yea, the anime is stil that good.

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

Not aiming this at you Rovert10, but I'm still waiting on a reply to explain why people thought Kirito or Asuna's character wasn't up to scratch from an anime point of view only.

That is why I would love to hear unbiased opinion from anime viewer. All our biased view see is Asuna become a lot more shallow compare to novel. If anime viewer think current Asuna is good enough then perhap it is good enough.

[Leon_Lelouch]

aria the starless got one episode, but I think it's been beautifully shown by giving out the main story of it which is about clearing the first floor after 1 month has passed...
shame that Argo the information broker itself didn't get shown but oh well, it's not really that important too...
the battle scene was done nicely too, that even make my friend's pentium computer got lag because of it hope that the studio will keep or even make it better for the battle scene as I don't really like a simple and fast battle but have a lot of conversation only in this kind of anime...
shame to Diabel that he died just because he wanted to KS the boss and get the item drop and he is the only one who died in the first boss battle...

to think that they would call Kirito a cheater just by that lol, well it always happened too in the actual online game when they see people who actually play it just like other people but because overwhelming others, he would just be called a cheater....lol

@magicalideal
if you still confused about the town system and the tower, the tower itself actually cannot be seen by all the player since in the beginning all of them have been inside the tower itself
you can see it that the tower which is Aincrad itself flying on the sky....

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

That's what I label as "reality tv" logic where everyone gets stupid just because it's supposed to be real.

I don't know about you but I'd rather think about it as to what I'll do if I'm ever in that kind of situation and quite frankly I don't think I'll sink that low(keyword: think of course I don't think I'll ever know anytime soon as I don't see myself getting in a similar situation soon) I just don't buy this "humans are supposed to act like that naturally" BS.

Fair enough, I say. But fear and powerlessness make people say and do so-called "illogical" things in order to protect themselves, therefore I stand by my statement.


If I were in that kind of situation, I of course would try to be savvy about this thought process and hope I won't sink that low, but I can't guarantee that I won't.

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by Hmm....

That is why I would love to hear unbiased opinion from anime viewer. All our biased view see is Asuna become a lot more shallow compare to novel. If anime viewer think current Asuna is good enough then perhap it is good enough.

I think that's the very point. We're not supposed to know a lot about her just yet. Kirito was the main focus of this episode. If you pay attention to context, the point when the particular side story this episode was based on was released, readers were already well-acquainted with Asuna's character, so it was natural to show scenes that covered Asuna's background story at that point.

However, this is just the second anime episode told from Kirito's POV. Since Asuna right now is still "that mysterious stranger", drawing the focus away from Kirito at the moment wouldn't be all that recommendable.

This is a two cour series, so all this paranoia about Asuna's "insufficient characterization" is unwarranted. There will be plenty of time to focus on her issues later on.