Ep.5 Discussion

[Breogan]

Originally Posted by brightman

One thing I noticed though... In Ep 3 Takayuki mentioned that he hasn't seen Mitsuki "in a long time" after she went to meet him at work... So does that mean that Mitsuki called it quits after a while (maybe right after Akane found out about this she felt too guilty to go on?) or is there more to it? I guess we'll see for ourselves (or not)...

I have Onigiri's episode, and he says "What's wrong? Even though it's been a while you are quiet" meaning that they had been walking for a while and she had been quiet.

[monir]

Originally Posted by 144M_HYPERION

After watching the anime and finishing the game, the only person I hate in this series is Takayuki.

Akane was right ... he is a coward. For a whole year he didn't confront with the situation. He just blamed himself for what happen, while he should be living normally for the sake of Haruka.

Takayuki is the only character that I have disagreement with and I partly agree with your post because he is always unwilling to confront any situation. For example, both of the girls came to him with their feelings. He mopes and whines almost all the time. He has no ambitions. Only in anime this kind of characters will be attractive to girls.

By the way, will it be too much to ask to the moderators to delete some of the post that are idiotic/offensive at best in this thread.

[u&t]

She probably felt rejected after Takayuki being so hesitant to move in with her. Also noticed how Takayuki turned his back on Mitsuki when in bed and not even getting up to say goodbye in Ep 3?

You don't do that if you love someone.

Oh, and why did Mitsuki cut ther hair? Is it like she's not a little girl anymore?

[eMpTy265]

Originally Posted by u&t

She probably felt rejected after Takayuki being so hesitant to move in with her. Also noticed how Takayuki turned his back on Mitsuki when in bed and not even getting up to say goodbye in Ep 3?

You don't do that if you love someone.

Oh, and why did Mitsuki cut ther hair? Is it like she's not a little girl anymore?

Mitsuki could have cut her hair for several reasons:

Maybe it was a sign of moving on, and forgetting the past.
(People in real life do that too..)

She once said she preferred short hair, maybe she was acting on her feelings this time. (Just as she acted on Takayuki)

[Breogan]

That comes from episode 2 (?) when they both were talking and she said she didn't like her hair, and actually only the person she liked (supposedly Takayuki) told her she would look better with the short hair. I don't think he remembers about that tho.

[Baka Ronin]

I have special experience with similar situations for takayuki. he's refusing to confront these issues and they will only serve to bite him in the ass alter unless he does it before its too late.

[FlyByNite]

I don't see how you can blame Akane. Look at her perspective.

Her Parents screwed the pooch by NOT TELLING HER what they said to Takayuki. They never told her they asked him to stay away. So all of a sudden this is what Akane observes.

Takayuki always shows up and is there with her when Akane is spending time for Haruka in the hospital. Although she does observe Takayuki looking worse and worse. Akane decides to check in on him and she finds Mitsuki in his bed. In that moment she suddenly thinks "So is that why he's now no longer coming to the hospital? My friend and mentor has seduced him in his weakened state."

It would have been a better outcome if Akane's parents told her, "Listen Akane, Takayuki is on the verge of a nervous breakdown and may be borderline suicidal. We told him he needs to move on with his life, because this isn't healthy for him." But they didn't do that.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Breogan

I have Onigiri's episode, and he says "What's wrong? Even though it's been a while you are quiet" meaning that they had been walking for a while and she had been quiet.

Oh ok... That makes a bit more sense then (though it's still debatable whether that means that it's been a while since they started walking or its been a while since they've met...)

Originally Posted by monir

Takayuki is the only character that I have disagreement with and I partly agree with your post because he is always unwilling to confront any situation. For example, both of the girls came to him with their feelings. He mopes and whines almost all the time. He has no ambitions. Only in anime this kind of characters will be attractive to girls.

I have to say that I disagree with that a bit. He's not someone who whines and mopes alot. From Ep 1 he was pretty much a normal (Japanese) guy who is rather inexperienced with romance. But I guess they like him because of some characteristics or personality that we haven't had the chance to see much of.

But the whining and moping... Really, I can't say that's a weakness or something. The accident was just too much of a trauma for him that it affected him greatly. Anyone who loses someone dear to them would be constantly reminded of that person, and it's the same case here. Granted, since he blames himself it affects him even more than if say that person died of a sickness instead. So this really is normal I think. Not a flaw of his character.

And weren't people complaining two episodes ago that they hated the fact that Takayuki went out with Mitsuki and ignored Haruka? Now they are saying that he's too sensitive and wimpy and whiny because he could never forget Haruka? Geez people are never satisfied it seems.

[Lst2touchdasky]

Originally Posted by u&t

Ok here is my take:

Mitsuki is a BITCH!

That was fucking rape man. Throwing herself at a helpless young man like that...

Also this episode further confirms that Takayuki is a spineless wimp in great need of some character (phu, I'm glad anime is so character driven - maybe Takayuki will get some)

I guess you really cant blame Mitsuki for what she did but she's definetly holding the moral low ground here. Takayuki needs to dump her, get a life for a couple of years and then return to the girls. Ha! if I'm lucky both Haruka and Mitsuki will have realized what a dork he is by then and then he'll be the one with the broken heart in the end. That would be fun

i was thinking the exact same thing. she just jumped him!! i do blame mistsuki though

[Jinx626]

Even though I am and always will be a Mitsuki fan i wish she didn't hook up with Takayuki in that way...but i can understand with the vulnearability of both characters at that moment and why she did what she did...I thought this episode portrayed Mitsuki in both the negative and positive light but in the end more towards the positive side...Takayuki is unworthy of both ladies!!!

[Whojive]

Originally Posted by musouka

::sigh:: I must admit this episode didn't exactly leave me with the best impression of Mitsuki.

It's obvious that Haruka being in a coma really fucked Takayuki up mentally. So, of course, the best thing for a person as dependent as he is is to have sex with his [sorta] ex-girlfriend's best friend! Yeah, I'm sure that made the guilt just go right away!

Instead, Mitsuki should have just got the lead out and dealt with her emotions in a productive way for once. She thinks she's doing the best thing for him, but really the last thing he probably needs is some weepy chick crying "But I've loved you for so long! Come and bathe in the magical light of my vagina and everything will be better!" (And the fact that it seems to have worked is a bit of a failing of the anime as far as I'm concerned)

What Takayuki needed was a friend. Not someone with an ulterior agenda. (Even though I don't think Mitsuki was fully aware of it herself, so it's hard to fault her) This episode obviously represented a severe low as far as Takayuki's feelings were concerned, and I think perhaps Mitsuki shouldnt have been so quick to dive in there sexually and/or [perhaps] romantically. I would have had a lot more respect for her if she had gotten him through this low point without bringing her personal feelings into it. It's hard, but sometimes it just needs to be done.

And, once he was stable, I would have been hard pressed to fault them for entering a relationship. Granted, this is in a best case scenario. I just find myself tired of the subtle selfishness displayed by Mitsuki time and time again. Perhaps if this was not coupled with an attempt to make her seem "noble", I would like her a lot better, since I can and do appreciate characters with human flaws.

I won't deny that her heart was in the right place. And, I can't say that I even hate her. I just don't find myself terribly impressed by her actions thusfar. Is this most likely intentional on the part of the writers? Sure. I mean, it's not like their future relationship is deviod of problems or anything. I just don't think Mitsuki "saved him" as much as gave into weakness.

i agree totally about Mitsuki, she has totally gone about things the wrong way.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by musouka

What Takayuki needed was a friend. Not someone with an ulterior agenda. (Even though I don't think Mitsuki was fully aware of it herself, so it's hard to fault her) This episode obviously represented a severe low as far as Takayuki's feelings were concerned, and I think perhaps Mitsuki shouldnt have been so quick to dive in there sexually and/or [perhaps] romantically. I would have had a lot more respect for her if she had gotten him through this low point without bringing her personal feelings into it. It's hard, but sometimes it just needs to be done.

Hmm... Didn't read that part a bit so I'll address that now.

I really don't think Mitsuki could have done anything else other than what she did. Takayuki was serious mentally "gone"... You said Takayuki needs a friend, a mere "friend" wouldn't have been a ble to get him back. Mitsuki's tried to act as his friend for the whole year already by taking care of him and tried to alleviate his conditions, but merely being a friend really can't cure Takayuki of his obsession with Haruka. The episode dealed the many things that Mitsuki tried to do to cheer Takayuki up, but still he's stuck in that blank vegetable-like state.

And nothing worked. Takayuki got more and more insane, and what she did was the only thing that she could do to knock sense into him. What Takayuki needed wasn't a friend after all, because none of his friends were able to snap him out of it. What he needed was "stimulation".

[JokerD]

Somehow I see Mitsuki as very human. She's carrying as much guilt as Takayuki for being in the relationship, if not more so. It's sad to see someone so lively in the 1st 2 eps turn into a quite insecure lady later.

As for the sex part, frankly I think she ran out of ideas on what to do. I mean she cared for him for 1 year and even quit the swimming club for it. (although I get the vibes that she didn't like it in the first place) I mean even Shinji told Mitsuki to leave Takayuki alone for a while.

Man, this is one depressing anime... I know I would be torn up if my friends ended up this way.

[musouka]

Mitsuki's tried to act as his friend for the whole year already by taking care of him and tried to alleviate his conditions, but merely being a friend really can't cure Takayuki of his obsession with Haruka. The episode dealed the many things that Mitsuki tried to do to cheer Takayuki up, but still he's stuck in that blank vegetable-like state.

Then she should have just kept trying until she got it through his head. Haruka's parents told him to stop visiting her. This is the time to stay with him and support him, not cry about "Man, I've tried to keep in my feelings for so long and here let's have sex!"

(Though this is kind of personal, I've been in a state of mind similar to Takayuki's before. And the last thing I needed at that time was for some well meaning person to come to me and start saying stuff like "I've always had a romantic interest in you!" What I needed was for my friends to stick by me util I worked out my issues.)

Honestly, I think the sex hurt more than it helped. Look at their relationship in the future. Are they still plagued with guilt? Yes. Is their relationship as good as it could be? No.

saying "I've always loved you" at that time and meaning it in a romantic way only adds pressure to the situation. Did Takayuki need to know that he was loved? Of course he did. But I doubt he needed the added burden of "Oh jeez, I've kinda boned the girl I'm supposedly in love with's best friend."

I mean, hell, if this is still causing guilt (as is seen a couple of years later when dealing with Akane) then perhaps it wasn't the best way to go about it.

[Baka Ronin]

I don't think he's unworthy, he's just inexperienced. he'll learn the right way to do things. most likely it will be one of the ladies to ram it down his throat ^_^

[brightman]

Originally Posted by musouka

(Though this is kind of personal, I've been in a state of mind similar to Takayuki's before. And the last thing I needed at that time was for some well meaning person to come to me and start saying stuff like "I've always had a romantic interest in you!" What I needed was for my friends to stick by me util I worked out my issues.)

Well, since you've been through it (hopefully it didn't last a year like Takayuki's did) I guess you know a bit about how Mitsuki could have gone about doing it... As for me though, I have absolutely no idea what else Mitsuki could have done to bring him back to his right mindset, because it seemed to me that she's tried everything she can... Even when she screamed at him he was still as emotionless as ever.

I agree that the sex didn't get rid of the guilt, but it certainly allowed Takayuki to get back on his feet, find a job, buy and make food for himself and put on some clean clothes for once. And they eventually did managed to move on with their lives, until Haruka woke up that is (so if she didn't I assume that they would just forget about Haruka and live on happily ever after or something)... So i really think that she couldn't have done anything else that would have made it any better... Though if you have a better idea you can share it...

[eMpTy265]

Originally Posted by brightman

I agree that the sex didn't get rid of the guilt, but it certainly allowed Takayuki to get back on his feet, find a job, buy and make food for himself and put on some clean clothes for once. And they eventually did managed to move on with their lives, until Haruka woke up that is

hmm... I wonder if that's why Takayuki seemed to have changed into a horny bastard in ep.3?

I mean, it is said that sex is one of the things that tends to take people's minds off things...

so is that why Takayuki seems to want it so badly?

[musouka]

Well, my main thing is that I don't think it was a situation where it was like "OMG! I have to snap you out of it this very millisecond or it's obvious you'll die!" I mean, yeah, it's very possible he could have done something rash, but I think that was offset by her simply being there.

I wouldn't have minded her getting physical with him in a comforting way. Such as a hug. Just holding him and being there. She wouldn't have even had to talk him out of his funk. Just allowing him to know that even though he thought his world was tumbling down on him, she would always be there for him would have helped...

Jumping into bed--though I'll be the first one to admit that it probably took his mind off things at that very moment--has not been healthy for him, nor their relationship in the long run. Had she been willing to take things slow and allow both of them to deal with the issues at hand, no matter how long it might have taken, then I don't think they'd be in nearly as much trouble as they are right now.

I do realize what I'm saying would make for a very boring show, though. And it's also probably not 100% realistic either. It's just what I'm throwing out as the ideal way to handle the situation. Also, counseling definitely would not hurt.

The main problem with their relationship right now is that both of them are using it as a means of escaping their problems rather than dealing with them head on. I'd imagine some of it is mutual solace, but they're also not doing one another any favors in the long run.

[Dopeskills]

This wasn't exactly my favorite episode....

[Shift_]

Well personally I feel that after watching these eps. Takayuki only really sees Mitsuki as "lets do it" "lets do it later" "lets do it today" "I can't do it" with the emphensis on nothing but sex.

When he was around Haruka, he was a happier person, so it seems. He seemed more "human" and seemed to be better.

I still don't think Takayuki deserves any of them.

I don't know of ANY girls that throw their naked selves at a guy that they really really like NO matter what. *shrugs* I mean it's great for us guys if they do.

But I really liked at the end how Haruka + Takayuki were both staring at the moon...

sorta leads on to something...