[Manga] What do you think of Itachi now?

[kayote]

we don't know if Sasuke has the MS or not?

He might have aquired it the way that Kekashi(can't spell) did. you can''t rule out that possibility.

But, now that Itachi is a phyco his days are numberd. don't when & where or by who or how but it will probely be soon and than Madere/tobi and Pain will be left.

I do think that he is an important character but, not as much as Madere/tobi and Pain....

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Sasuke also has CS to make him stronger, though I think he may avoid using it against Itachi (as a matter of principle)

But remember, Sasuke doesn't necessarily have to overpower Itachi with his own MS. Itachi might make a mistake, or leave an opening like Sasori did. Granted, Itachi is very calculating, but he can be arrogant and sees MS as being virtually invincible. That assumption might even work against him. Sasuke still has Sharingan, which means he can resist MS, even if he can't overpower it. If he could endure and create an opening, he could win.

I count the Curse Seal as one of Oro's jutsu. The entire Sound 5 was defeated so I don't see the CS giving Sasuke an edge over Itachi. He does have a chance, it's up to Kishimoto, but I think that the hype surrounding Mangekyo Sharingan foreshadows the outcome of this battle.

Sasuke will no doubt put up a good fight, I just don't think this is his time. We're finally going to get to see Itachi fight seriously and MS isn't worth its hype if Sasuke can beat Itachi with his current skill.

Originally Posted by kayote

we don't know if Sasuke has the MS or not?

He might have aquired it the way that Kekashi(can't spell) did. you can''t rule out that possibility.

But, now that Itachi is a phyco his days are numberd. don't when & where or by who or how but it will probely be soon and than Madere/tobi and Pain will be left.

I do think that he is an important character but, not as much as Madere/tobi and Pain....

He doesn't have it. We know this because his eyes have not deterioated. If you go back to the Itachi clone vs. Team Kakashi conflict in the forest you will notice that Itachi becomes shocked when Kakashi asks him how far his eye sight has deteriorated. Kakashi could have only known of this condition if HE himself was going through the same thing. That's why Itachi was shocked, he caught the hint.
We still don't know how Kakashi got his MS but we know that Sasuke doesn't have it because he was unaware of the blindness side effect.

Itachi knew straight away that Sasuke did not have the MS, before even telling him about the blindness. I'm guessing he either knows that Naruto is his best friend and he hasn't killed him or figured Sasuke didn't have it because he gave no indication that he did.

[kayote]

we don't know for concreate evidnece that Sasuke does not have MS. i mean i rather doubt that he does but, in saying that there has been no indication.

Kakashi managed to aquire MS.

do thair eyes deterioated stright away or is a gradule thing. do they know stright away that they are losing thair eyesite or some time later?

[siya]

I don't really care about Itachi..never have....He's one of those characters with a big part that isn't shown much, and the only reason as to why I take an interest is because he explains things that I want to know.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by kayote

do thair eyes deterioated stright away or is a gradule thing. do they know stright away that they are losing thair eyesite or some time later?

It gets worse everytime they use the MS.

Whether sasuke has the MS or not, who knows, he might even acquire it mid way through the fight. There might even be different versions of it, some like Mandra and Itachi's lead to blindness, the other version might have some other "sacrifice"/downside.

Spoiler:

I do recall, it was only Mandra that went blind, his brother whose eye pattern was different (from Mandra and Itachi) seem more or less unaffected. Who know, Sasuke might end up with that version.

I have a theory (with no proof of any kind), that maybe the other eye pattern grants abilities to counter Mandra's type MS.

-Mandra's MS give the ability to create very strong illusions, but cost you to lose your visual perception.
-Mandra's brother's MS give extra perception that allow one to break MS strength illusions, with the downside being you will slowly lose the ability to cast illusions/hypnotize at all with the regular Sharingan.
-while Kakashi's MS was just a random mutation.

[cheese4u]

Originally Posted by Salt

It gets worse everytime they use the MS.

Whether sasuke has the MS or not, who knows, he might even acquire it mid way through the fight. There might even be different versions of it, some like Mandra and Itachi's lead to blindness, the other version might have some other "sacrifice"/downside.

Spoiler:

I do recall, it was only Mandra that went blind, his brother whose eye pattern was different (from Mandra and Itachi) seem more or less unaffected. Who know, Sasuke might end up with that version.

I have a theory (with no proof of any kind), that maybe the other eye pattern grants abilities to counter Mandra's type MS.

-Mandra's MS give the ability to create very strong illusions, but cost you to lose your visual perception.
-Mandra's brother's MS give extra perception that allow one to break MS strength illusions, with the downside being you will slowly lose the ability to cast illusions/hypnotize at all with the regular Sharingan.
-while Kakashi's MS was just a random mutation.

Or maybe he simply didn't use his MS as much as Madara, and thusly didn't receive the same amount of damage.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by kayote

we don't know for concreate evidnece that Sasuke does not have MS. i mean i rather doubt that he does but, in saying that there has been no indication.

Kakashi managed to aquire MS.

do thair eyes deterioated stright away or is a gradule thing. do they know stright away that they are losing thair eyesite or some time later?

No indication? Did you read the last chapter? Itachi said to Sasuke that he noticed that he didn't have it and Sasuke said to go ahead and use it on him. Itachi told him about the blindness because he KNOWS he doesn't have it. Sasuke isn't going to come out in the next chapter and say "AHA! I have the Mangekyo Sharingan afterall".

You guys should learn to pick up on these subtle hints. Kakashi's side effect for MS is exactly the same as Itachi's and Madara's. How do we know this? Because Itachi said that the side effect is a trademark of the ability. He knew Kakashi had it when he asked him about his own eyesight, that's why he was shocked while up to that point he had been calm (Kakashi knows because his eyesight must also be deteriorating). We don't know how Kakashi got it (As Itachi noted it is supposed to be the ultimate ability of their advanced bloodline and said it was impossible for Kakashi). But we know Sasuke doesn't because he elected not to kill Naruto and chose to seek power through Orochimaru.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by cheese4u

Or maybe he simply didn't use his MS as much as Madara, and thusly didn't receive the same amount of damage.

Well, the author did go through considerable trouble to give Mandara's brother a different eye pattern, instead of giving him the one that Mandara and Itachi has. Just thought there is a pretty good chance that it meant something.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

As Itachi noted it is supposed to be the ultimate ability of their advanced bloodline and said it was impossible for Kakashi.

Itachi never said that.

Originally Posted by Salt

Well, the author did go through considerable trouble to give Mandara's brother a different eye pattern, instead of giving him the one that Mandara and Itachi has. Just thought there is a pretty good chance that it meant something.

It means the Mangekyo Sharingan has differents shapes depending of its user since Kakashi, Itachi, Madara and his brother all have different eyes when they use it.

[Naotaka]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

Nice prediction and good theories.

I think it would be gruesome for Sasuke to have his eyes removed and I don't see reason for Itachi to not just kill Sasuke if he took them. But if Sasuke has truly inherited Orochimaru's powers he has freaky jutsu like the one where Oro regenerates a new body that comes out of the old one even if he has lost a limb.
Sasuke did make note of the healing factor a couple chapters ago so anything is possible.

Also Itachi made it clear that he wants Sasuke to have the MS when they fight. He doesn't have it and Itachi even made note of this during the battle. Itachi has already killed his best friend so I don't think he can redevelop MS with Sasuke's normal Sharingan. He left him alive for the purpose of obtaining it so he can steal it.
I do think Sasuke is going to lose and be humbled in this battle. Instead of seeking the help of the others he may simply seek out Naruto to truly kill him. I do like the idea of Sasuke losing his eyes and going blind for awhile only to have the regenerate and align with Konoha to take on an all-powerful Itachi.

This is a good moment in the manga because it is hard to predict the next outcome.

Spoiler for Eternal MS:

The only thing I can think of, if it does turn out where Itachi takes Sasuke's eyes, and a spoiler pic from the manga seems to suggest that, though it can be fake, could be another genjitsu, could be anything really, so who knows. Though I would imagine, that if Itachi does takes his eyes now, he's banking on the fact that once they turn MS, they will never loose the light from the start. Figure Itachi might actually have a few ways to pull this off. He can kill Madara, and surpass his master, since his opinion of him is rather low atm. Which might give him MS, since they are close. Or possibly Kisame, who he's traveled with for so long now, which might also give him MS who knows. Or last but not least the Kakashi way, what ever the hell that is. This is all assuming, that regardless of Sasuke's eyes status, he plans on taking them out now, instead of waiting for Sasuke to gain MS of his own.

In a way it's kind of brilliant, because his eyes will be in the most perfect condition. One of the clan's most powerful eyes, (since it's been said Sasuke's eyes will surpass Itachi's) ones that have never detereorated, and in a pure maniacal genious. It's the perfect formula for the perfect villian. At least I think so. Especially if Itachi walks all over Sasuke, like nothing it shows, how Sasuke who was considered a hax character of god like Status can be easily destroyed by his brother. I would see no reason as to why Itachi wouldn't be able to be the main villian at that point. Also, it leaves the small room, that Eternal MS that has never been deteriorated can all of a sudden have even more unique secrets, because that's something corny enough I wouldn't put past Kishi to do. Since he's already made the sharingan, into the most powerful tool ever, what's one more power up for the last villian.

[shankss]

I liked him before since he was somehow special.Now we got so many damn uchihas with ubergan eyes and his reason to kept sasuke alive was damn stupid.I mean I'd understand if there was some greater twisting reason, rather than just "Im 1337 leet and I will destroy the world with ubergan eyes ROFL"...think of it, since naruto began we always saw itachi as big bad boss guy thinking plots like getting kyuubi/enitre demons for himself and look what he did : eternal ms...is that the best they can do? simply making fiery combos with unharming ameterasu? sending everyone to tsukuyomi without hurting himself? pathetic writing I say, not Itachi's fault anyway but course it effects the character.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

I count the Curse Seal as one of Oro's jutsu. The entire Sound 5 was defeated so I don't see the CS giving Sasuke an edge over Itachi. He does have a chance, it's up to Kishimoto, but I think that the hype surrounding Mangekyo Sharingan foreshadows the outcome of this battle.

Cursed Seal wasn't developed by Oro, it was derived from Juugo. And Oro himself didn't possess a cursed seal. Itachi has never encountered it. And of course, CS is a power that's amplified by the base strength of the shinobi. Kimimaro with CS is leagues above Tayuya with CS. Besides, I wouldn't take Itachi's comment "All your jutsu are useless against me" word for word. He was saying that Oro could not match him as a shinobi, not the he was literally immune to all Oro's jutsu. That comment was meant to be applicable to Oro, not to Sasuke.

Sasuke will no doubt put up a good fight, I just don't think this is his time. We're finally going to get to see Itachi fight seriously and MS isn't worth its hype if Sasuke can beat Itachi with his current skill.

Well, we may not have seen everything Sasuke has learned yet. We've pretty much discussed all the abilities he's shown so far, but it's been hinted he still has more up his sleeve (i.e. "that jutsu" and/or the "second option" he claimed he could've used against Deidara). Really, I have no idea how Sasuke logically supposed to win against Itachi without MS. But shounen usually favors the underdog in this type of scenario. Plot device and deus ex machina should be factored in this type of situation.

But more importantly, Madara did state that Sasuke would surpass Itachi and that this would occur soon. That to me seems like a hint heavily indicating Sasuke will win sooner rather than later.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Itachi never said that.

He said that Tsukiyomi was unbeatable and that only a Sharingan user with the same blood as him could defeat him. When Kakashi hinted that he had the MS Itachi was shocked and consider the feat to be impossible.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Cursed Seal wasn't developed by Oro, it was derived from Juugo. And Oro himself didn't possess a cursed seal. Itachi has never encountered it. And of course, CS is a power that's amplified by the base strength of the shinobi. Kimimaro with CS is leagues above Tayuya with CS.

I know where it's derived from and I know that it gives Sasuke a power boost. Just the same, I doubt Kishomoto will use it as Sasuke's edge over Itachi when the other CS users have been defeated.

Besides, I wouldn't take Itachi's comment "All your jutsu are useless against me" word for word. He was saying that Oro could not match him as a shinobi, not the he was literally immune to all Oro's jutsu. That comment was meant to be applicable to Oro, not to Sasuke.

I didn't take it literally. But as far as we know Sasuke has nothing that would give him an edge against Itachi. That's not to say that he could not hold his own with all he has learned but that there isn't anything in his arsenal that should be a match for Mangekyo Sharingan. It's been stated that a ninja with the Uchiha bloodline can resist the powers of the MS but that's about it.

We'll see what Kishimoto comes up with.

Well, we may not have seen everything Sasuke has learned yet. We've pretty much discussed all the abilities he's shown so far, but it's been hinted he still has more up his sleeve (i.e. "that jutsu" and/or the "second option" he claimed he could've used against Deidara). Really, I have no idea how Sasuke logically supposed to win against Itachi without MS. But shounen usually favors the underdog in this type of scenario. Plot device and deus ex machina should be factored in this type of situation.

I think the 2nd option was supposed to be Manda, which he ended up using in the end.

But more importantly, Madara did state that Sasuke would surpass Itachi and that this would occur soon. That to me seems like a hint heavily indicating Sasuke will win sooner rather than later.

It does seem like Madara wants Sasuke to surpass Itachi while Itachi aims to surpass Madara. It should be interesting to see what Kishimoto comes up with. I personally don't think Sasuke is going to get his revenge, atleast not in the classic way of beating Itachi in a duel because thats really not a positive message.

[Sakuranbo]

I'll make a quick addition to my earlier post: basically Itachi has always been a cold, callous, murdering, monster, so why should a sinister laugh change any of that. His abilities may be far from normal and quite fun to watch, however he is a heartless murderer wanting only power for himself.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

He said that Tsukiyomi was unbeatable and that only a Sharingan user with the same blood as him could defeat him. When Kakashi hinted that he had the MS Itachi was shocked and consider the feat to be impossible.

Therefore he never said that.
He was obviously very surprised when Kakashi hinted he had the MS but Itachi never said it was impossible for him to obtain the Mangekyo.

[Naotaka]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

I know where it's derived from and I know that it gives Sasuke a power boost. Just the same, I doubt Kishomoto will use it as Sasuke's edge over Itachi when the other CS users have been defeated.

I don't know if the CS will be enough for Sasuke to beat Itachi, I'm sure we'll find out soon enough. Though I'm honestly hoping to god, Itachi just walks all over Sasuke to be honest. However, the cursed seal, was what helped Sasuke beat Naruto, finally at the valley of end, since just before that, Naruto proved to be superior, to Sasuke by, defeating foes Sasuke couldn't handle, and eventually beating on Sasuke some more when he went 1 tail fox further beating the snot out of him, until the CS2 gave Sasuke that tiny edge over Naruto to secure the victory.

It was also part of the difference maker in the Deidra fight too, since Sasuke litterly had to go all out, with everything he had, (Cursed seal, Sharingan, white snake powers, elemental superiority, and that stupid sword of his). And I don't know how much it mattered with Sasuke killing Orochimaru, since it was the sharingan that sealed the deal with Sasuke taking over Orochimaru's subconcious, but he did use it in that fight too. I wouldn't rule out the CS as a worthless buff that's just there to sound cool, while it didn't work out for the sound 5 it has helped Sasuke a bit.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It means the Mangekyo Sharingan has differents shapes depending of its user since Kakashi, Itachi, Madara and his brother all have different eyes when they use it.

Hmm. I might have been mistaken, I wrote what I wrote under the impression Madara and Itachi have the same eye pattern with his brother having the new pattern. On second reading, it might have been the other way around, but to the frank, I can't quite tell which is Madara.

Still, give every one a different pattern when they are all identical in function and abilities is kind of lame.

Regarding how Sasuke is going to beat Itachi, the only way he is going to win (baring any deus ex machina) is he has some how manage to out skill his brother and makes full use of his brother's rather badly deteriorated eyesight.

[malvado]

I think Itachi is totally heartless. He is even worse then Orochimaru

[Kakashi]

I like Itatchi because despite his coldness, he is not vain but humble in most cases. He tells it how it is when fighting, watch episode 82 of Naruto if you need reminding. Despite his power he knows when he is at a disadvantage and retreats even. Although his general view of how he should live life ie. constntly seeking power is wrong but still. His battle mind impresses me. His phyco face doesnt change that lol

[james0246]

Originally Posted by malvado

I think Itachi is totally heartless. He is even worse then Orochimaru

No, Itachi, and seemingly the entire Uchiha clan, is/are insane; Orochimaru is heartless. Orochimaru seemingly knew, at one point and time, the difference between right and wrong, and simply choose the wrong. Itachi, it can be argued, has always been insane and could then never have had a heart in which to be heartless. In other words, becuase Orochimaru choose to be evil, it can be said that he forsoke his heart becoming heartless. I am not sure if Itachi ever had a heart (well at least the metaphorical heart, I am sure he at least still has his physical heart...unless he needs to change that as well in order to receive the Eternal MS)

I have always kind of thought of it as, to take it out of the world of Naruto for a minute, the difference between Lex Luthor and the Joker. The Joker is over-the-top insane with no truely undersatandable emotion or idea in his head. His descions are only understandable to himself, and to try and understand his motive is to incur insanity. Itachi is a little like this. On the other hand, Lex Luthor is brillant ordinary man that has simply choosen to perform monstrous actions in order to fulfil his own needs and desires. Orochimaru is much the same as Lex Luthor. (this is a surface layer analysis, of course, and to go deeper would probably break the comparison between the various individuals. I was only using it as a surface level analysis though, so there is no need to go further.)

True all could be called evil and heartless, but from a moralistic standpoint, Only Orochimaru have ever shown any indication that he knows or at least knew the difference between right and wrong, Itachi has never shown this. So, Itachi can not truly be called heartless or, when it gets right down to it, he can not even be called evil since he does not exist on the same moralistic plain as the other individuals within the series (i.e. Kakashi, Sakura, Naruto, etc.). In fact, it can be claimed that Sasuke is more 'evil' than Itachi. Rather Itachi can be described as an immoral or ammoral monster (you pick).