Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 1st

[Kaijo]

Henshin sequences don't bother me much, as I see it more for the symbolism "rebirth" role. Since you're naked when you're born, a lot of media does this with characterization, where one gets naked in advance of a change. Magical Girl shows which do transform have been featuring naked girls for awhile; Nanoha just takes it a bit farther.

Still, I don't see it as "ooh, nice!" It's not something I look forward to, as I'd rather the time be used for more plot and story. I've kinda outgrown fanservice mostly, heh. That's what porn is for, and when I'm watching a story, I'd rather see a story. When I want nudity, I'll go look up porn.

Also, they are 9 years old. It's really hard to get my mind around seeing a 9 year old as fanservicey, or get excited about it. The 14 year olds of Sailor Moon were more fanservicey with transformations (and outright nudity!) than this.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Also, they are 9 years old. It's really hard to get my mind around seeing a 9 year old as fanservicey, or get excited about it. The 14 year olds of Sailor Moon were more fanservicey with transformations (and outright nudity!) than this.

Could be personal preference coming in to play at this point, but for some reason the Sailor Moon henshin sequences never bothered me nearly as much as the henshin sequences in Nanoha do. Technically I know both are underage, but the SM transformations were pretty easy for me to swallow. MGLN transformations... not so much for some reason.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Could be personal preference coming in to play at this point, but for some reason the Sailor Moon henshin sequences never bothered me nearly as much as the henshin sequences in Nanoha do. Technically I know both are underage, but the SM transformations were pretty easy for me to swallow. MGLN transformations... not so much for some reason.

Well, on a logical level, both are naked. The only difference is the coloring of the body. SM transformations did have about as much detail, they just had flashy lights running over their skin, as opposed to the natural skin color of Nanoha and Fate. And various characters in Sailor Moon were naked at times; off hand, I can recall Mercury being so, and Sailor Moon was during her fight with Galaxia at the end, and those times their bodies were flesh colored, with no detail; just like Nanoha and Fate.

From one perspective, it makes sense. The Sailor Scouts were transforming their bodies, while Nanoha and Fate are just putting on a barrier jacket, much like getting dressed.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

From one perspective, it makes sense. The Sailor Scouts were transforming their bodies, while Nanoha and Fate are just putting on a barrier jacket, much like getting dressed.

Might explain why I've always felt uncomfortable with the MGLN henshin sequences when you put it that way. Ignoring the age thing, I always feel like I've walked in on someone changing whenever I see one happen. Awkward feeling.

[hinakatbklyn]

(Not good. I think I just opened up Pandora's Box. Better hide.)

[Archon_Wing]

*Shrugs* Nudity in itself isn't very bothersome because not all nudity is sexual. I mean nobody was gonna go all up in arms in Dragon Ball about Goku being neekid even though he was a little boy, and they even had jokes about balls! The transformation scenes in the TV series were probably the least bothersome. I just don't feel they were meant to be sexualized. As I have said before, I was actually more interested in the device/armor.

But if it's like slow motion ass shots or something; I would say that would be completely unnecessary. I haven't actually seen the movie yet, so I wouldn't know. It certainly is not gonna ruin the movie for me either.

Regardless, I came from a country that is afraid of tits so this could make it harder to introduce the series to people. I was thinking of the movie as a better alternative for people to enter the series, but I don't know as of yet.

[Demi.]

Close up booty of NanoFate? Yes. Slow motion? No.

Henshin lasts for a little over a minute for Nanoha, but roughly 70% of it is her device being constructed. For Fate, I heard the henshin is about half as long, however, since bardiche doesn't need nearly as much constructing, it's almost entirely focused on her undressing/dressing...Which is probably why it's considered more "risque" than Nanoha's.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

*Shrugs* Nudity in itself isn't very bothersome because not all nudity is sexual. I mean nobody was gonna go all up in arms in Dragon Ball about Goku being neekid even though he was a little boy. The transformation scenes in the TV series were probably the least bothersome. I just don't feel they were meant to be sexualized. As I have said before, I was actually more interested in the device/armor.

You bring up an interested point; is there a double standard? Goku was naked quite often as a little boy, and he actually did have genitalia detailed a bit, at least way more than Nanoha and Fate do. Was that sexual? Is it only sexual when girls are naked?

[hinakatbklyn]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Regardless, I came from a country that is afraid of tits so this could make it harder to introduce the series to people. I was thinking of the movie as a better alternative for people to enter the series, but I don't know as of yet.

I think the original series has so far escaped the censors since it was just once per episode if any at all. When it goes beyond a henshin sequence and age gets involved either sexual or violent,

Spoiler for Anime series that didn't escape censors:

Dance in the Vampire Bund allegedely

then they start to take notice.

[RadiantBeam]

Actually, considering how they handled the henshin sequences in the series I'm surprised they gave them so much more detail in the movie. I understand better animation gives everything more detail, but really now, putting that much detail into some parts of the henshin sequence is really pushing it, IMO.

[Demi.]

Typical Nanoha movie audience - Males between the age of 16 and 30.

Henshin sequence - detailed.

It sells.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

You bring up an interested point; is there a double standard? Goku was naked quite often as a little boy, and he actually did have genitalia detailed a bit, at least way more than Nanoha and Fate do. Was that sexual? Is it only sexual when girls are naked?

Most likely.
There's even a scene IIRC that Goku shows someone "the balls in his pants." Which is pretty blatant

I'm quite sure some nut would demand people would be arrested for watching Dragon ball now.

[Aaron008R]

I wouldn't call it a double standard, actually. It technically boils down to one factor in my opinion. And it's gender.

Whether you like it or not, the world is still far from reaching the point where cultural issues would be generally viewed in the same vein regardless of the subject being male or female. Laws Regarding Women's Rights was a subject in my course during college. And from what we studied, many parts of the world are still somewhere in the process of women empowerment and trying to achieve gender equality.

As of now, despite the presence of laws that protect both genders equally (in theory), you can still expect a large cultural impulse from many people along the lines of 'protecting women' and other male chauvinistic jazz. Face it, many modern moral standards nowadays (bar some countries *shudder*) love women, so it's rather natural for people to make a fuss when a female is involved. It doesn't help that women are targets of many cultural issues.

We could also put Japanese culture into consideration, but I honestly can't speak for them since I'm not Japanese. I could say that I would be more familiar with their culture due to being a fellow Asian but that would be getting ahead of myself.

Was that sexual? Is it only sexual when girls are naked?

At this point, I hope some people from Japan who comes here to Animesuki would come by and give us some insights about Japanese culture and their perspective on sexualism.

It's important to remember that the Dragon Ball and Nanoha franchises are primarily intended for the Japanese audience. When it comes to audiences from outside that country, it would become a target to numerous cultural subjectivity. We people in Animesuki come from all around the world. Expecting a concrete answer to these issues from such a mishmash of cultures would be pretty difficult. For example, in our country, you can expect numerous people to throw hissy fits at the first mentions of nudity.

We could also go on a different tangent and look at the intention of the artists and then the target age demographic. But I guess I'll refrain from blabbing too much for now.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

I wouldn't call it a double standard, actually. It technically boils down to one factor in my opinion. And it's gender.

*snip for size*

It's important to remember that the Dragon Ball and Nanoha franchises are primarily intended for the Japanese audience. When it comes to audiences from outside that country, it would become a target to numerous cultural subjectivity. We people in Animesuki come from all around the world. Expecting a concrete answer to these issues from such a mishmash of cultures would be pretty difficult. For example, in our country, you can expect numerous people to throw hissy fits at the first mentions of nudity.[/QUOTE]

When rules are applied differently to men and women, that's a double standard, heh. And it's partly interesting because Dragonball and Nanoha are shounen series, it's just the latter has mahou shojo roots. But also, fanservice is universal, because sex sells. In particular, female nudity sells.

Goku being naked, then, isn't a big deal, because it's just part of the plot. He turns into a giant ape and thus shreds his clothes, and when he turns back he's obviously naked. Being a young boy, and raised in the wild alone, he doesn't care much about his nudity, so getting naked to swim is perfectly fine. I should mention that when it was initially dubbed, it was also censored.

The point is that, because of plot, him getting naked wasn't an issue. I see Nanoha and Fate the same way as Goku. Them getting naked is part of the plot because it highlights that their normal clothes are going away, to be replaced by magic armor. Granted, it really only needs to be shown once, and not repeated, so in this case I give the movie mostly a pass. It seems like it might be too long of a transformation sequence, but I'll have to judge that when the time comes.

Thus, to me, it's not sexual. Same thing with regards to the transformation sequences in episode 5 of StrikerS. Even though they are older, there is no details, and thus it's really hard for me to get excited. If there were details, then maybe, but if I wanted details, I'd go download porn.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Typical Nanoha movie audience - Males between the age of 16 and 30.

Henshin sequence - detailed.

It sells.

Point. Damn. Even the awesomely detailed animation of the movie has its pros and cons...

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

When rules are applied differently to men and women, that's a double standard, heh.

Ah, my mistake. I got the meaning of double standard wrong.

And it's partly interesting because Dragonball and Nanoha are shounen series, it's just the latter has mahou shojo roots. But also, fanservice is universal, because sex sells. In particular, female nudity sells.

It all boils down to marketing, huh?

Goku being naked, then, isn't a big deal, because it's just part of the plot. He turns into a giant ape and thus shreds his clothes, and when he turns back he's obviously naked. Being a young boy, and raised in the wild alone, he doesn't care much about his nudity, so getting naked to swim is perfectly fine. I should mention that when it was initially dubbed, it was also censored.

The point is that, because of plot, him getting naked wasn't an issue. I see Nanoha and Fate the same way as Goku. Them getting naked is part of the plot because it highlights that their normal clothes are going away, to be replaced by magic armor. Granted, it really only needs to be shown once, and not repeated, so in this case I give the movie mostly a pass. It seems like it might be too long of a transformation sequence, but I'll have to judge that when the time comes.

I'd classify naked Henshin sequences as more fanservice than anything serving any actual plot relevance, though. It has been shown several times that mages can change into their battle outfits after a simple flash, after all.

Thus, to me, it's not sexual. Same thing with regards to the transformation sequences in episode 5 of StrikerS. Even though they are older, there is no details, and thus it's really hard for me to get excited. If there were details, then maybe, but if I wanted details, I'd go download porn.

This is where the usual argument in scrutinizing levels of nudity (with the censorship issues closely following) in media goes. But by what you said, wouldn't that mean sexuality only comes with actual nudity?

[Demi.]

Technically speaking, this series is of the mahou shoujo genre. A mahou shoujo without a henshin sequence would be a disgrace to mahou shoujo anime.

[Aaron008R]

I didn't say that the henshin sequences were unnecessary, I just said that they are better classified as fanservice than actual plot points. Of course they are necessary.

In fact, being a fan of tokusatsu and super robot series as well, I'd classify henshin and gattai (combination) sequences to be 'necessary' fanservice. Though combination is actually necessary for plot if the mech come in parts... Oh whatever.

(Though it does get rather tiring watching 50 or so episodes with THIS included in every single one. XD)

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

This is where the usual argument in scrutinizing levels of nudity (with the censorship issues closely following) in media goes. But by what you said, wouldn't that mean sexuality only comes with actual nudity?

Depends on the person, I suppose. There is also a saying that someone famously said, "I can't tell you what pornography is, but I'll know it when I see it."

Details might get closer, but I'd have to see it when it gets there. There is actually a hentai series called Venus 5 that parodies Sailor Moon, and as you can expect from a hentai, there are totally nude transformation scenes. It's nothing to really get excited about, though.

Originally Posted by Demi.

Technically speaking, this series is of the mahou shoujo genre. A mahou shoujo without a henshin sequence would be a disgrace to mahou shoujo anime.

Cardcaptor Sakura says, "Hi!" Mahou shojo series, lots of outfits, but no henshin sequences. And while I don't particularly care for the series, there are a lot of people who do. ^_~

[Demi.]

CCS henshin wouldn't work due to the dozens of variations with her costumes. Would be kinda weird to show one costume henshin and not the others...And there are far too many to show. Additionally, she alternates between costumes during battles, so that makes for even less time for henshin. And really, because of that, she doesn't have a signature henshin scene.