AnimeSuki Forums

TwilightsCall · 2014-11-03, 01:55

That would depend heavily upon which version of Jesus you're summoning.

If its Jesus according to the Christian/Catholic mythos...well, he's omnipotent, so you have a bit of freedom. Likely it would end up being a Noble Phantasm similar to Heracles' Godhand, in that it would be some sort of resurrection ability. Otherwise notable events in his life were walking on water, causing a storm to stop just by speaking to it, cursing a tree causing it to wither and die, feeding large groups of people with almost no food, countless healings...Fate takes a lot of freedom with interpretation of legends into Noble Phantasms (I don't think there are many legends of King Arthur having an Anti-Fortress Beam weapon, though I could be wrong!), so there's a lot of room for interpretation. Those are the events I would suspect his theoretical NP(s) would be based on though.

So looking at that, he would likely have some sort of control over water/storms, since it seems to be a recurring theme in his story. On top of that, he might have some method of a curse, especially when you cross-reference the cursed tree story with the NPs given to the old-Apocrypha version of David. In fact, looking at those NPs would probably be a good place to start if you wanted to see how a Heroic Spirit Jesus would look.

If you look at the Islamic rendition of Jesus, you would probably get something similar, except without the resurrection. I don't know much about the Islamic history of Jesus, so I can't say much in that regard, but any resultant NPs would likely be very similar, just toned down a lot.

An interesting approach would be a Judaic representation of Jesus, in which he would possibly even be considered an evil-aligned Heroic Spirit. Once again though, I don't know enough about Judaism to make any real guesses here.

In the end, I would have to say that Jesus would probably not work very well as a Heroic Spirit. On the one hand, he either becomes virtually (or literally) omnipotent, which is bad for storytelling, and on the other...he never fought in his lifetime. He was never a warrior, or a soldier, or involved with killing and death in the same way most Heroic Spirits are.

In-Universe, he is very unlikely to be summoned (imo) because he is a God in a very different way from other Heroic Spirits we see. I'm kind of going off the top of my head with this, but IIRC, the God worshiped by the Church in the Nasuverse is effectively the Origin, either a personified version of it or maybe an omnipotent being that exists there (maybe similar to Void!Shiki). Such a being would have no reason to answer the call of the Holy Grail - he's omnipotent, why would he need a wish granted?

Alternatively, if you look at it from a perspective of a nonomnipotent Heroic Spirit Jesus, he did very little that involved war or fighting in his life, the most violent thing he did being getting tortured and crucified. On top of therefore not fitting into any of the standard classes aside from a hugely inappropriate Caster (about as inappropriate as Kojiro being an Assassin, so there is precedent I suppose), he wouldn't really be capable of fighting. At least, not in the same way other Servants are.

...wow this post got long. Disclaimer: its entirely speculation and opinion based, as there is not even really a mention of Jesus in any Nasuverse work that I am aware of (other than maybe in one of Kotomine's prayers at one point, but that hardly counts), so the evidence to make a real fact-based stance is just not there.

GreyZone · 2014-11-03, 08:05

I'd say Jesus would be a Caster with 1/3rd divinity (due to trinity belief) with "Peace Hand" as his NP. Peace Hand would give him the ability to instantly destroy any weapon or NP he views as hostile that he touches with his hands in combat. Permanently. Not sure if it could even affect EX-ranked NP like Ea or not.

Other abilities he would have would include A++ ranked Unit-type magical healing, and a one-time 3-day-ressurection (revives 3 days after the core has been destroyed, regardless of the status of the master).

Also when he dies the 2nd time the spirit would purify the grail's corruption.

Probably something along those lines.

GDB · 2014-11-03, 09:42

That or ironic Lancer.

Dengar · 2014-11-03, 10:34

Maybe he'd be an irregular class. Kinda like Savior.

Nayrael · 2014-11-03, 17:47

Definitely an irregular class, otherwise you would not have much use from him (or the likes like Gandhi or Buddha...) seeing as he would not fight ^^;

Although it is doubtful that any top-level religious figures could be summoned. Having a high percentage of world's population worship you would make you above Servant Level (even Gilgamesh is close to being banned from HGW IIRC yet someone like that).

TwilightsCall · 2014-11-04, 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

That or ironic Lancer.

I would vote for this one.

He could also have the Holy Grail as one of his NPs, since you know, the whole Holy Grail thing is part of his story....

Cherry_Lover · 2014-11-04, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nayrael

Although it is doubtful that any top-level religious figures could be summoned. Having a high percentage of world's population worship you would make you above Servant Level (even Gilgamesh is close to being banned from HGW IIRC yet someone like that).

Not really. Muslims don't formally 'worship' Mohammed, for example, they simply see him as a messenger of God. He's highly regarded, yes, but so are most heroes. I see no reason why a figure like that could not be summoned.

Rev Okkin · 2014-11-04, 13:53

No it wasn't
I read the Bible and there was no mention of the Holy Grail.

Or are you referring to the cup he used in the Last Supper?

Rising Dragon · 2014-11-04, 13:55

Said cup is typically regarded as the Holy Grail.

Nayrael · 2014-11-04, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Not really. Muslims don't formally 'worship' Mohammed, for example, they simply see him as a messenger of God. He's highly regarded, yes, but so are most heroes. I see no reason why a figure like that could not be summoned.

For HGW, these technicalities don't really matter too much.
Worship, revering, admiring... the level is much higher than King Arthur, Hercules, etc.
Not to mention that you might summon someone more powerful than the Holy Grail, and the fact that Servants need to want to be summoned.

Fellen · 2014-11-04, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Said cup is typically regarded as the Holy Grail.

I can just imagine an amazing scenario.

Holy Grail War no.???(doesn't matter)

Six of the Servants: ''I will obtain the Holy Grail!!!''

Jesus: *Pulls out the Grail and starts drinking from it*

Five of the Servants: ''Dude WTF!?''

Lancer: *Dies due to his Master having a heart attack and being unable to give him mana*

superiorsuperboy · 2014-11-04, 19:48

How is this season'starts fate/stay night different from the one in 2006? Just a little confused.

Akashin · 2014-11-04, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by superiorsuperboy

How is this season'starts fate/stay night different from the one in 2006? Just a little confused.

Putting aside general quality, it's focusing on the same route as the 2010 movie rather than the Fate route that the 2006 anime covered.

GreyZone · 2014-11-04, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by superiorsuperboy

How is this season'starts fate/stay night different from the one in 2006? Just a little confused.

Aside from the new anime being much, much better visually and in characterisation:

In DEEN's 2006 attempt Saber, just after having been summened and having fend off Lancer, she critically wounds Archer who is unable to participate in any fights for a few days. In ufotable's version, this one, Shirou uses a command spell to prevent her from doing that which results in Archer being able to take part in the war... that has various consequences, beginning with the first fight against Berserker being completely different than with Archer missing. The rest of the story also becomes completely different, put giving away anything more would go beyond currently aired episodes and would therefore be a spoiler.

And regarding who becomes Shirou's love interest here...

Spoiler for Love Interest:

Rev Okkin · 2014-11-04, 20:02

Which should be noted, "Do NOT watch Deen's UBW movie as it spoils major plot points."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fellen

I can just imagine an amazing scenario.

Holy Grail War no.???(doesn't matter)

Six of the Servants: ''I will obtain the Holy Grail!!!''

Jesus: *Pulls out the Grail and starts drinking from it*

Five of the Servants: ''Dude WTF!?''

Lancer: *Dies due to his Master having a heart attack and being unable to give him mana*

Amazing. This should be a CP episode. Actually, it is! It has Lancer dying!
That said, how would Jesus or that Arthurian Knight that was finding the Holy Grail react as they most probably know that the HG in the HGW is fake?
Would Jesus "light the way" and grant the wishes of each team depending if Jesus perceives said wish to be evil or good? Or would Jesus think, "Where are my Apostles? Shouldn't I be crucified, dead, risen again and in Heaven by now? What am I supposed to do here, the Scriptures had nothing on this!"

Dengar · 2014-11-05, 02:31

You know, Jesus' powers don't have to be limited to what's in the bible. Their powers are based off legends, so any apocryphic stories would also work.

Gpower · 2014-11-05, 03:34

So can anyone tell me why is Saber not dead from Gae Bolg?

Rising Dragon · 2014-11-05, 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gpower

So can anyone tell me why is Saber not dead from Gae Bolg?

A high Luck parameter can cause Gae Bolg to fail despite its ability.

Dengar · 2014-11-05, 05:40

In other words, Saber literally did the impossible by dodging a fatal blow.

People doing things that are impossible and defy all reason is a recurring theme.

superiorsuperboy · 2014-11-05, 10:04

DaMN.... I tot it was a reboot like how the amazing spider-spider-man was a reboot or the 2003 onen. Would still be interested in saber's route. Maybe I should play the game.

2014-11-03, 08:05	Link #5022
GreyZone "Senior" "Member" Join Date: Jan 2012	I'd say Jesus would be a Caster with 1/3rd divinity (due to trinity belief) with "Peace Hand" as his NP. Peace Hand would give him the ability to instantly destroy any weapon or NP he views as hostile that he touches with his hands in combat. Permanently. Not sure if it could even affect EX-ranked NP like Ea or not. Other abilities he would have would include A++ ranked Unit-type magical healing, and a one-time 3-day-ressurection (revives 3 days after the core has been destroyed, regardless of the status of the master). Also when he dies the 2nd time the spirit would purify the grail's corruption. Probably something along those lines. __________________

2014-11-03, 17:47	Link #5025
Nayrael The Faceless One Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Varaždin, Croatia Age: 33	Definitely an irregular class, otherwise you would not have much use from him (or the likes like Gandhi or Buddha...) seeing as he would not fight ^^; Although it is doubtful that any top-level religious figures could be summoned. Having a high percentage of world's population worship you would make you above Servant Level (even Gilgamesh is close to being banned from HGW IIRC yet someone like that). __________________

2014-11-04, 13:55	Link #5029
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Said cup is typically regarded as the Holy Grail. __________________

2014-11-03, 01:55	Link #5021
TwilightsCall Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Tokyo, Japan Age: 33	That would depend heavily upon which version of Jesus you're summoning. If its Jesus according to the Christian/Catholic mythos...well, he's omnipotent, so you have a bit of freedom. Likely it would end up being a Noble Phantasm similar to Heracles' Godhand, in that it would be some sort of resurrection ability. Otherwise notable events in his life were walking on water, causing a storm to stop just by speaking to it, cursing a tree causing it to wither and die, feeding large groups of people with almost no food, countless healings...Fate takes a lot of freedom with interpretation of legends into Noble Phantasms (I don't think there are many legends of King Arthur having an Anti-Fortress Beam weapon, though I could be wrong!), so there's a lot of room for interpretation. Those are the events I would suspect his theoretical NP(s) would be based on though. So looking at that, he would likely have some sort of control over water/storms, since it seems to be a recurring theme in his story. On top of that, he might have some method of a curse, especially when you cross-reference the cursed tree story with the NPs given to the old-Apocrypha version of David. In fact, looking at those NPs would probably be a good place to start if you wanted to see how a Heroic Spirit Jesus would look. If you look at the Islamic rendition of Jesus, you would probably get something similar, except without the resurrection. I don't know much about the Islamic history of Jesus, so I can't say much in that regard, but any resultant NPs would likely be very similar, just toned down a lot. An interesting approach would be a Judaic representation of Jesus, in which he would possibly even be considered an evil-aligned Heroic Spirit. Once again though, I don't know enough about Judaism to make any real guesses here. In the end, I would have to say that Jesus would probably not work very well as a Heroic Spirit. On the one hand, he either becomes virtually (or literally) omnipotent, which is bad for storytelling, and on the other...he never fought in his lifetime. He was never a warrior, or a soldier, or involved with killing and death in the same way most Heroic Spirits are. In-Universe, he is very unlikely to be summoned (imo) because he is a God in a very different way from other Heroic Spirits we see. I'm kind of going off the top of my head with this, but IIRC, the God worshiped by the Church in the Nasuverse is effectively the Origin, either a personified version of it or maybe an omnipotent being that exists there (maybe similar to Void!Shiki). Such a being would have no reason to answer the call of the Holy Grail - he's omnipotent, why would he need a wish granted? Alternatively, if you look at it from a perspective of a nonomnipotent Heroic Spirit Jesus, he did very little that involved war or fighting in his life, the most violent thing he did being getting tortured and crucified. On top of therefore not fitting into any of the standard classes aside from a hugely inappropriate Caster (about as inappropriate as Kojiro being an Assassin, so there is precedent I suppose), he wouldn't really be capable of fighting. At least, not in the same way other Servants are. ...wow this post got long. Disclaimer: its entirely speculation and opinion based, as there is not even really a mention of Jesus in any Nasuverse work that I am aware of (other than maybe in one of Kotomine's prayers at one point, but that hardly counts), so the evidence to make a real fact-based stance is just not there.

2014-11-03, 09:42	Link #5023
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	That or ironic Lancer.

2014-11-03, 10:34	Link #5024
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Maybe he'd be an irregular class. Kinda like Savior.

2014-11-04, 13:53	Link #5028
Rev Okkin Yorokobe, (Insert name) Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Auckland, New Zealand	No it wasn't I read the Bible and there was no mention of the Holy Grail. Or are you referring to the cup he used in the Last Supper?

2014-11-04, 19:48	Link #5032
superiorsuperboy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2013	How is this season'starts fate/stay night different from the one in 2006? Just a little confused.

2014-11-05, 02:31	Link #5036
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	You know, Jesus' powers don't have to be limited to what's in the bible. Their powers are based off legends, so any apocryphic stories would also work.

2014-11-05, 03:34	Link #5037
Gpower Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Australia	So can anyone tell me why is Saber not dead from Gae Bolg?

2014-11-05, 05:40	Link #5039
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	In other words, Saber literally did the impossible by dodging a fatal blow. People doing things that are impossible and defy all reason is a recurring theme.

2014-11-05, 10:04	Link #5040
superiorsuperboy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2013	DaMN.... I tot it was a reboot like how the amazing spider-spider-man was a reboot or the 2003 onen. Would still be interested in saber's route. Maybe I should play the game.