Xbox One

[Chase]

This is freaking unbelievable. How did it get worse than it already was?lmao MS is just so much fail right now and not even games shown at E3 is going to help with me.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Angry Joe has a new video up for those who needs a good ranting

[Chase]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Angry Joe has a new video up for those who needs a good ranting

lol that was the first thing I was looking for when I read the info. Still this guy had me dying

YouTube

https://youtu.be/cn_NoMjuFLc

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[Sides]

lol MS going from breaking consumer rights to invading people's personal lives. I don't know about you guys but I have no real life friends, and definitely no family members, on my steam/xblive/PSN lists. It is the one thing I really don't like sharing it with companies, knowing that they will use it to spam ads and other marketing gimmicks.
I think this universal (X)box that controls your life is going to far. Despite that, I would love to see how many million people will adopt the Xbone, knowing that they will be sharing more information to a cooperation than to a government. Giving up rights and personal details seems to be okay with some people, just to gain some stupid perks. The fact that you actually have to pay for a this product makes it worst, remember once you share your details and information of your friends and family you cannot undo it.
Console are for gaming not for surveillance

[Vajra]

Originally Posted by Sides

lol MS going from breaking consumer rights to invading people's personal lives. I don't know about you guys but I have no real life friends, and definitely no family members, on my steam/xblive/PSN lists. It is the one thing I really don't like sharing it with companies, knowing that they will use it to spam ads and other marketing gimmicks.
I think this universal (X)box that controls your life is going to far. Despite that, I would love to see how many million people will adopt the Xbone, knowing that they will be sharing more information to a cooperation than to a government. Giving up rights and personal details seems to be okay with some people, just to gain some stupid perks. The fact that you actually have to pay for a this product makes it worst, remember once you share your details and information of your friends and family you cannot undo it.
Console are for gaming not for surveillance

That's another thing that has irked me about this whole XBO campaign. It seems almost as though Micro$oft is blatantly (and arrogantly) declaring: "well you're going to let us into your very personal lives, what you like, dislike, etc, etc and you're going to pay us for doing it and then you're going to thank us for the opportunity." They are not even trying to hide how jacked this whole thing is, who in their right mind would sign away personal and consumer freedoms just to play a few videogames that *might* be Xbox exclusives?

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Phirk

That's another thing that has irked me about this whole XBO campaign. It seems almost as though Micro$oft is blatantly (and arrogantly) declaring: "well you're going to let us into your very personal lives, what you like, dislike, etc, etc and you're going to pay us for doing it and then you're going to thank us for the opportunity." They are not even trying to hide how jacked this whole thing is, who in their right mind would sign away personal and consumer freedoms just to play a few videogames that *might* be Xbox exclusives?

If there's a backlash, I expect it to be over the always on requirement and used game rights, not the privacy stuff. The privacy policies look pretty solid, and it's not like being made by a company whose entire business model is based on advertising and knowing stuff about you stopped Android being the world's most popular OS for devices that often include GPS and even user-facing cameras (that can be used for facial recognition unlock!).

[Solace]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

My eggs are safely in the PC basket.

PC and Nintendo for me. Same as last gen. If PS4 was backward compatible I might be interested in picking one up to play the PS3 exclusives, but it will probably be cheaper to just wait for the PS3 console market to crash in price.

Originally Posted by Phirk

They are not even trying to hide how jacked this whole thing is, who in their right mind would sign away personal and consumer freedoms just to play a few videogames that *might* be Xbox exclusives?

Millions. Most consumers don't keep up with stuff like this, so their first experience will be when they actually purchase and use the device. It's true that current backlash will likely be sustained until and after launch, but it won't be enough to diminish initial sales. The power of massive advertising budgets will drown out most dissent, for a bit.

After the launch buzz wears off and people want to sell those Xmas launch titles to someone else.....that's another matter.

Personally, I think MS is in a horrible position compared to Sony and Nintendo, and at some point the company is going to give up the console industry because that's clearly not the audience they want.

[DingoEnderZOE2]

You guys are aware of what fate is in store for console gaming for all if the PS4 is willing to repeat the same insane decisions that Microsoft is doing right now correct?

For those who don't WANT to convert to the PC, now might be a good time to either pray or let your voices be heard.

[Vajra]

Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2

You guys are aware of what fate is in store for console gaming for all if the PS4 is willing to repeat the same insane decisions that Microsoft is doing right now correct?

For those who don't WANT to convert to the PC, now might be a good time to either pray or let your voices be heard.

Do you believe that Sony would be willing to gamble with this, after the supposed "disc lock" PS3 snafu from last time? If they want to keep their current consumers and gain more they will need to do the opposite of what Microsoft is doing (though I know what you are getting at: could the Sony PS4 turn the tide and alter the future of console gaming by adopting MS-like purchase/used policies).

[DingoEnderZOE2]

You underestimate the stupidity of people in the business world when it comes to satisfying their greed.....

I am really hoping Sony has enough intelligence to be aware that if Sony does follow the same decisions as Microsoft than unless the Wii U steps it's game up, then I'm afraid the era of Console gaming for the COMMON and average gamer and not the overly rich is in serious trouble.

Seriously the majority of people who don't have a problem with this are either ignorant people, people who rely on outside help to get their games and consoles(children) or people with a ton of money to burn(rich people).

[cronnoponno]

Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2

You underestimate the stupidity of people in the business world when it comes to satisfying their greed.....

I am really hoping Sony has enough intelligence to be aware that if Sony does follow the same decisions as Microsoft than unless the Wii U steps it's game up, then I'm afraid the era of Console gaming for the COMMON and average gamer and not the overly rich is in serious trouble.

Seriously the majority of people who don't have a problem with this are either ignorant people, people who rely on outside help to get their games and consoles(children) or people with a ton of money to burn(rich people).

Or people with, in my opinion, misplaced sympathy for the developers, if we're talking used product here.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by cronnoponno

Or people with, in my opinion, misplaced sympathy for the developers, if we're talking used product here.

I think publishers tend to push the "used/piracy/etc kills sales" angle harder then developers. THQ in particular tended to push the used games arguement hard. Before they went bankrupt.

I suspect that the scheme was probably designed to appease publishers (among other things, an "authorized dealer only" used market allows more leverage to control prices), question is how much of it is MS's initiative and how much was publisher demands - that could have an impact on Sony's eventual decision.

I'll also note that the "sign in is necessary to prevent abuse of lending, etc." arguement that seems to underlie Microsoft's scheme might have been somewhat persuasive... were it not for the fact that we've services like Steam have gotten by just fine without such mechanisms. Thought I suppose they'd argue nobody bothers to abuse Steam's ability to install games to different PCs and then run offline because other methods of piracy are so easy on the platform.

[GDB]

By the way, given the huge invasion of privacy stirred up because of PRISM, does the always-on Kinect strike anyone else as being as bad as everyone feared? Some people wrote it off as Microsoft not being smart enough or evil enough to retain the data, but now that it's come out that the NSA has been collecting pretty much all online data (especially from Microsoft, who reportedly was the first to line up to give them information), this is the worst case scenario.

[Kreceir]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/ryB-hdtpQRw

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[4Tran]

From the looks of things, the push for Microsoft to impose all of these policies on the Xbox One comes from Microsoft itself, and not the publishers. I think that it all stems from Microsoft trying to reach non-gamers, and that a big key to that was to make the game-playing experience as accessible as possible. The idea was to make loading up a game as easy as saying "Xbox play Halo 15".

The problem is that to get that to work, you'd have to allow a game to play without putting a disc in the drive. And that brings up all sorts of piracy concerns; concerns that all of these policies are designed to deal with. The publishers don't really factor into Microsoft's decision until the very end - that's probably why there's such a Frankenstein's monster of unclear mechanisms and incomplete information.

As Microsoft's very concept of the Xbox One is tied into these policies, they might be relaxed at launch, but they cannot be changed altogether. Initally, they were planning for the console to call home every 3 minutes, but the initial backlash pushed that to 24 hours. You can chalk it up to a minor victory, but I doubt we'll get more than that.

Originally Posted by saravis

I wouldn't be so quick to put all your eggs in the PS4's basket, we've not gotten all the information about the PS4, for all we know the DRM measures could be worse. If that turns out to be the case, it is a sad day for gamers.

Based on the rumors, there are two camps of thought at Sony, the first wants to keep their game policies the same as on the PS3, while the second wants to introduce stronger DRM measures. The more vitriol Microsoft gets over this issue, the stronger the first camp gets, so it's most certainly not going to waste. Microsoft has handed Sony all sorts of PR victories, and Sony is going to want to capitalize on them.

Originally Posted by Solace

Millions. Most consumers don't keep up with stuff like this, so their first experience will be when they actually purchase and use the device.

I figure that most consumers won't even care. We've been largely trained to not worry about consumer rights being taken away. I'm actually surprised that the response to Microsoft's announcement is this strong.

Originally Posted by Solace

It's true that current backlash will likely be sustained until and after launch, but it won't be enough to diminish initial sales. The power of massive advertising budgets will drown out most dissent, for a bit.

Well, Microsoft wanted to use E3 to drown out negativity around these policies, but it's backfired pretty spectacularly. Right now, instead of reporters talking about all the cool games at the convention, they're looking for policy answers from Microsoft. Even the non-gaming media is getting in on the act - Time and Der Spiegel have already written negative articles, and more outlets are likely to follow. Since Microsoft doesn't want to provide any answers, they won't have any good news to balance the waves of bad news.

All the marketing dollars in the world are going to be useless if Microsoft can't control the messaging - and they're failing to an amazing degree so far. In fact, I can't think of a single PR push that's received this much backlash. I'd love to read the book that's guaranteed to come out about this whole debacle.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I figure that most consumers won't even care. We've been largely trained to not worry about consumer rights being taken away. I'm actually surprised that the response to Microsoft's announcement is this strong.

See, losing consumer rights are only easy to hide if it is in the background. The flaw is that you can't hide something the size of "not able to play games" in the background.

The target audience doesn't know about all this yet. But they will know, once they tried to activate it.

[saravis]

Originally Posted by Kreceir

[yt]*Angry Joe*]

There's one thing I disagree with him on in that video and that is Microsoft is solely responsible for the DRM measures on the XbO. If a gaming system doesn't have the backing of game publishers, in other words games, it won't sell and publishers have been pushing for these methods for years. EA is a huge example of this and is coincidentally (hardly) Microsoft's recent bedfellow.

This is partly my fear for what could turn out with the PS4, if publishers are pushing for these measures on the XbO, it would seem unlikely that they would stop there. After all, why would you attempt to force such measures on the consumer, if they have a better option? Its like trying to get support for a dictatorship in a democratic land. I hope I'm mistaken, but part of me fears otherwise.

[takai]

I can't wait for the playstation fans' reactions when Sony reveals the same policies for the PS4.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by takai

I can't wait for the playstation fans' reactions when Sony reveals the same policies for the PS4.

Yeah, because all gamers getting screwed over will be a good thing?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Yeah, because all gamers getting screwed over will be a good thing?

Some men just want to watch the world burn. And when their ship is already on fire, they at least want to enjoy watching their "rivals" go down with them. You know, standard politics. Get all the followers to be more concerned about knocking the other guy down than bringing everyone up.