Penguin Drum - General Discussion

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Let's see...I can say this is yet another show this season that has a certain style about it, the other being Kamisama No Memouchou.

Do you mean similar style writing wise? In the set up or the premise?

Originally Posted by Suzuku

No...watching to see what happens is the point of watching something in the first place.

Putting something on hold because you can't figure out the themes in the first episode is ridiculous and subverts the whole point of watching a show. You're basically just saying you don't want to wait weeks to find out what happens next so you're just going to wait until it develops further and spoil yourself. I wouldn't have a problem with your personal decision to do something asinine, but you're somehow levying it as criticism against the show which is just insane.

I don't think it's asinine, especially with this sort of show. I mean some people would like to walk in cold and get to see the story unfold while they are watching it week by week, and other aren't really sure they want to spend time into something that they may or may not like. Especially when said show is intentionally vague and secretive about what it is and what it wants to do.

I mean some have already spoiled themselves with the novels, but they don't have a problem enjoying the show, at least for the clever stylistic direction/score/differences seeing the scene unfold on screen etc. It really depends on how people enjoy watching a show, either via marathoning it or following it actively.

(On the actual episode, I hadn't actually caught the Sailor Moon pose and other references. Looks like there's going to be plenty of Easter Eggs here ...)

[liro]

Utena with the penguins.

[Suzuku]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Do you mean similar style writing wise? In the set up or the premise?

He probably means in its presentation. You know, how they show flashbacks with the little panels and the various camera angles used for scenes. Also, the very colorful backgrounds and the way random pedestrians are animated (as little icons). That said, Memo-chou is stylish in a different way than Penguindrum imo.

I don't think it's asinine, especially with this sort of show. I mean some people would like to walk in cold and get to see the story unfold while they are watching it week by week, and other aren't really sure they want to spend time into something that they may or may not like. Especially when said show is intentionally vague and secretive about what it is and what it wants to do.

I mean some have already spoiled themselves with the novels, but they don't have a problem enjoying the show, at least for the clever stylistic direction/score/differences seeing the scene unfold on screen etc. It really depends on how people enjoy watching a show, either via marathoning it or following it actively.

(On the actual episode, I hadn't actually caught the Sailor Moon pose and other references. Looks like there's going to be plenty of Easter Eggs here ...)

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Chill out dude. All he's merely saying, which perhaps could have been worded better, is that he basically doesn't know whether to commit or not to this show due to lack of avilable information about it. If he doesn't know whether he'll like it or not, why commit to something that you might dislike when you may also not have that much free time?

If he hears good things down the road about the show, which is 25 episodes so plenty of time, then it may encourage him to just watch it later. If it goes down the toilet, then he'll be better off not having started in the first place.

As I said, my problem with isn't hist decision, I don't care about his decision. My problem is that he's basically criticizing the show for being clever. He might have worded it poorly, but if he really meant that it not showing its full colors in the first episode was a "problem", then yeah...

And I hardly need to chill. Criticizing someone's logic=/=buttmad.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Suzuku

No...watching to see what happens is the point of watching something in the first place.

Putting something on hold because you can't figure out the themes in the first episode is ridiculous and subverts the whole point of watching a show. You're basically just saying you don't want to wait weeks to find out what happens next so you're just going to wait until it develops further and spoil yourself. I wouldn't have a problem with your personal decision to do something asinine, but you're somehow levying it as criticism against the show which is just insane.

Actually I'm putting it on hold because my watching schedule as of this season is already pretty tight. I've already signed up for Sacred Seven and Kamisama No Memochou and have Steins;Gate and Tiger and Bunny carried over from last season as well. Plus it's a very distinct likelihood that I'm going to end up following No. 6 when I check it out tonight so that makes 5 shows. This is a lot to follow for someone like me already so a show really has to make an impression for me to want to follow it right away at this point.

In my eyes Mawaru Penguin Drum didn't do anything particularly more attention grabbing style wise than Memochou, and didn't hook me on the first episode like that show did because I still have little idea what it's about. In fact I'd say it wasn't as good a first episode in a lot of categories and wasn't so outstanding or attention grabbing versus the other shows I'm following that I'd want to add it to my current watch list. Perhaps if I had gotten to this show first.....

It's definitely not dropped if that's what people are thinking. It's on hold until such time as I can find time and reason to continue with it. It's definitely not a criticism if that's what people are thinking either. It's literally just among the reasons I won't be following it week to week.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Do you mean similar style writing wise? In the set up or the premise?

I mean in terms of shows whose main draw for me has been the way it's shot and paced. In fact I could actually argue that Kamisama was more creative overall in how it was shot to the point where it definitely added to the script and dialogue, but that's definitely a purely subjective matter.

[Kankel]

WTF did I ... Pffft! forget it.Nevermind
Yeah! I get the point.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by NaweG

Having just read through the last several pages, I'm a little surprised I didn't see more comments on just how much the style of this seemed to reflect a lot of Shinbo ala Bakemonogatari - particularly the use of signs and white space. Regardless of the source of this one man force of nature behind this series, the style seemed a bit more Shaft than Brain Base.

Then again, I was feeling by the end of this that Shaft was cleverly doing the Madoka second season they hinted at, but changing Sayaka and Mami into guys this time...

Regardless, I agree with most folks here that I look forward to seeing if the promise of the first episode can be delivered on.

i have to say something about that shinbo style, i can never get into shinbo's randomness in bakemonogatari, i actually feel tired when watching bake due to his direction but enjoyed it nonetheless, but in here i can somewhat accept it and enjoy it ALOT, and it never once crossed my mind that this is similar to shaft's works.

Well me liking UTENA might have something to do with it, but yes for me shinbo is nothing in comparison to ikuhara's mind fuck/anime direction.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

Even if the two weren't related by blood, I'd disagree with Kanba's acts. But them being siblings only further my feeling that he betrayed her in that scene. Which I hope he will come to regret later...

Given Ikuhara's record, any surprise story elements will be exist to increase the impact of actions rather than decrease them so they are almost certainly blood siblings. It's also certain that there's going to be more than meets the eye regarding the incest - it won't work like the generic shounen romance.

Originally Posted by NaweG

Having just read through the last several pages, I'm a little surprised I didn't see more comments on just how much the style of this seemed to reflect a lot of Shinbo ala Bakemonogatari - particularly the use of signs and white space. Regardless of the source of this one man force of nature behind this series, the style seemed a bit more Shaft than Brain Base.

Most of the SHAFT-like elements in the episode feel even more like classic Ikuhara. For example, signs in Utena:

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

The two boys talking about Campanella and the other passengers is a reference to night on the galactic railroad. It seems he might have drawn a lot of inspiration from that story for this one. I can also see the train being a metaphor for fate, predetermined stops until the final destination(death).

I think (hope?) they're going to be the Greek chorus for Penguindrum.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

No disagreement here.

I'd have thought that it'd be the obvious conclusion, but I do hear whispers that most of the credit should go to Enokido or other members of Be-Papas. But given their respective outputs post-Utena (with the possible exception of Nishikiori), those whispers are safely put to rest.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Ikuhara, on the other hand, is a whole lot more symbolic. Sure, Shinbo likes using symbolism in his work, but Ikuhara creates his shows with it in mind from the ground up. Every frame is referencing something, every still has a secret, and the more a show unfolds the more things become apparent to us, not only the more obvious things (the apple) but the subtle, hidden and obscure as well.

Too true. Ikuhara is constantly trying to invest every moment of his shows with meaning, sometimes with unusual visual elements, sometimes with music, sometimes with sound effects, and sometimes with simple blocking. I think that he's trying to deliver as much information as possible without going into wall-of-text mode.

For the most part, I think he's only interested in visual tricks for what those tricks will contribute to the greater whole. Of course, whether those tricks are comprehensible are another story (Stopwatch, anyone? ).

Originally Posted by Shiroth

The Sailor Moon reference is amazing. I wouldn't say no to an Utena one appearing in the future! Maybe Chu-Chu.

The Penguins are Chu-Chu.

Originally Posted by Joachim

i have to say something about that shinbo style, i can never get into shinbo's randomness in bakemonogatari, i actually feel tired when watching bake due to his direction but enjoyed it nonetheless, but in here i can somewhat accept it and enjoy it ALOT, and it never once crossed my mind that this is similar to shaft's works.

Well me liking UTENA might have something to do with it, but yes for me shinbo is nothing in comparison to ikuhara's mind fuck/anime direction.

Personally, I'm in awe of Ikuhara's work but I can't stand Shinbo anymore.

[ZODDGUTS]

Same, I've gotten tired of Shinbo's directing style.

[sa547]

My opinion: I've seen the best those two directors have mustered onto the TV screen, and at the same time rearrange my head like an organic Rubik's Cube with their eclectic visuals, so IMHO they're real very good in their own individual way, rather than comparing them like apples and oranges.

And to those afraid of witnessing a certain social taboo, I have voiced this earlier at MAL:

What's the point of seeking new horizons if we couldn't observe, if not explore, what happens if a taboo is made manifest before our eyes? More than a century ago some works of literature we considered now as classics were then controversial, even going so far as to polarize opinion of the day. Heck, The Catcher in the Rye and Lord of the Flies, highly acclaimed now, were also eyed with suspicion at the time they were newly published.

Why fear the unknown, even if you are not directly involved and thus part of the audience? We've been hungry, seeking for something unique, a diamond in the rough, the one that stands out in a sea of fail.

Finally, the hardest question: what if you and your sister were the only ones left on the face of the planet? What would you do to survive?

That is why incest, long considered a social taboo and a grave sin in some societies, has to be explored and properly understood.

In other words, I await the next episode.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Oh yeah there was one other observation, the uniform that the one distinguishable group of schoolgirls were wearing bore a striking resemblance to Sailor Jupiter's outfit form Sailor Moon.

Sailor Jupiter's skirt was just a bit shorter , but yeah you're spot on with that.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The Penguins are Chu-Chu.

I can totally see that happening. Heck the penguins are probably Anthy's friends.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Personally, I'm in awe of Ikuhara's work but I can't stand Shinbo anymore.

I can't help but end up agree with this. I love Shinbo's works, though it's hard not to be against the fact that a lot of his recent works from the past two years haven't really done anything you'd expect to see from the Shinbo x Shaft combination. They've been good shows (apart from the second season of Maria+Holic, which felt very flat), though nothing compared to his past works, Moon Phase being a great example).

On the fanart side, it's certainly increasing. Now would be a good time to join pixiv for those that haven't already!

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS

Same, I've gotten tired of Shinbo's directing style.

That is impossible.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by applejuice

That is impossible.

Sorry, but it's not. I believe i gave a valid reason as to why i feel that way.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Personally, I'm in awe of Ikuhara's work but I can't stand Shinbo anymore.

The problem with both directors is that they've garnered such a reputation that discussions like this are dominated by comparisons and references to previous works and to each other.....and not so much about the work itself.

So I'll have to agree with sa547 on this.

Anyway, this was an interesting first episode. I say interesting because so much happened and yet nothing really happened, with a side of LSD. Certainly there are some intriguing plot hints, but really what dominated my mind the most was penguins. All I could think of was the scene from the first episode of Avatar: The Last Airbender when Aang went absolutely nuts upon seeing a penguin and was desperate to ride on one like a sled.

The "magical" sequence at the end had me scratching my head. I'm not sure what the purpose was. The credits had me wondering if there is going to be a gender bending aspect at some point (note the hair colors, note the siblings hair colors, note the colors in the show overall). Is it a coincidence that each of them gets a penguin, and that one has a bow like a girl, and that the first time you see the penguins they're in color coded cans that mirror the sibling hair colors?

Well. I guess I'm saying that this left a big enough impression that I'm left wanting to see more.

[lightbringer]

Came in not knowing a thing about this show, so zero expectations. Left with a mix of "awesome... but wtf did I just watch" and "is Shinbo involved somehow", something that seems to be the standard reaction going by some of the replies here. But now I see, Ikuhara huh. Makes sense. Whether they are going to explore incest or not doesn't bother me - this show looks pretty unique and will definitely be worth watching.

[Guardian Enzo]

In some ways, the impact of the first episode reminded me of FLCL - the same kind of surpassing coolness, and the sensory overload. You weren't sure exactly what you saw, but it was powerfully interesting. Where it differs is that this show didn't get me as emotionally connected to the characters after one ep as that one did.

I don't actually see much similarity to Shinbou here, to be honest - superficially, maybe. Really, that's like comparing Brian DePalma to Alfred Hitchcock.

[klare]

wow...

it started like slice of life with drama, but then Himari revived, then the penguins, then i thought they started playing the ED but it was NOT, then the kiss, then the real ED that looks like Sho and Kan became girls like Himari...

never seen Utena but have the urge to check it out

[risingstar3110]

Too bad that i had a policy to avoid older anime (pre-2005, around there). Otherwise i would have checked out Utena after watching this episode...

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Too bad that i had a policy to avoid older anime (pre-2005, around there).

You're missing out. Some of the best anime of all times predates 2005.

At any rate, go watch the Utena movie. The animation is still great for today's standards, being a movie and all, and it's a freaking masterpiece.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

In some ways, the impact of the first episode reminded me of FLCL - the same kind of surpassing coolness, and the sensory overload. You weren't sure exactly what you saw, but it was powerfully interesting. Where it differs is that this show didn't get me as emotionally connected to the characters after one ep as that one did.

I don't actually see much similarity to Shinbou here, to be honest - superficially, maybe. Really, that's like comparing Brian DePalma to Alfred Hitchcock.

I'd have to agree I found almost no real similarly between the two. I was fairly shocked when I saw people comparing them. I'd assume that its just because both have a unique visual style but it really different if you pay attention to them. Shinbo would never think up a transformation scene like that much less be able to pull it off. Ikuhara focuses more on the surreal while Shinbo tries to be artsy in his approach. I'll never like Shinbo's style though I did like some of his anime and never even drew any connection between them.

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Too bad that i had a policy to avoid older anime (pre-2005, around there). Otherwise i would have checked out Utena after watching this episode...

A truly pitiable policy...You don't know how much you're missing out on. Though Utena did get remastered a couples years ago for its 10th anniversary.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

At any rate, go watch the Utena movie. The animation is still great for today's standards, being a movie and all, and it's a freaking masterpiece.

I wouldn't recommend the movie without having seen the TV series. One of the major selling points of the movie is that you need to already know who these characters are, otherwise you're totally thrown into the deep end.