Nanoha FanFiction Discussion

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Maybe adding "even though they won't be anything more" would be good.

Unfortunately, you realize that even with that people are still going to interpret the ending regardless to what they want, right? It's not something you can control.

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

Alright, I did a bit of fiddling, and wrote up a new section that will hopefully get rid of some of the vagueness .

It's a flashback scene, and I copied the scene right before it to give it some context ^^.

Spoiler for New scene in Long Time No See:

*snip*

Hopefully, it'll give a different perspective on Subaru and Teana's interaction , and push that friendship angle more...

Nothing wrong with the new scene, but it doesn't address at all what (to me) was the main problem--Subaru's feelings. I like it, though, for how it better cements Teana's genuine desire to move forward instead of being caught in the web of her own holding pattern.

[sniperk]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Oh, yeah--add me to that list! You can't go dropping hints like that, Sniperk!

Worry not, my friend. I'll get around to write it... Someday... I think... I hope!

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Unfortunately, you realize that even with that people are still going to interpret the ending regardless to what they want, right? It's not something you can control.

Yeah, but those people would just be fanatical. It's one thing for the characters to "think they won't" and another for the author saying "they won't." But as it stands, you have several people who don't like SubaTea saying that they get SubaTea vibes, so I think that warrants further consideration.

You can still control it to a degree, or at least a degree to which anyone who thinks otherwise will just be reaching for straws. Take a look at the ending I wrote: Teana stays with Vice and rejects Subaru. Sure, some one could go "and then afterwards Teana realises her mistake and goes to be with Subaru instead!" but they would just be silly.

It looks like Dezo will be more helpful than I am, so I'll just differ to him

Originally Posted by sniperk

Worry not, my friend. I'll get around to write it... Someday... I think... I hope!

Well I'm gonna take a stab and guess... Signum? Did that Bright Punch have a befriending side effect?

[RadiantBeam]

[QUOTE=00-Raiser;3021207]Yeah, but those people would just be fanatical. It's one thing for the characters to "think they won't" and another for the author saying "they won't." But as it stands, you have several people who don't like SubaTea saying that they get SubaTea vibes, so I think that warrants further consideration.[/qoute]

You also need to take into consideration that DC meant for the ending to be open as it was; that it was open to interpretation regardless of what camp you were in. So why should she say that "they won't" just to satisfy the people who don't support SubaTea and still interpret the ending that way regardless? I'm not saying she shouldn't take the changes Dezo and others suggested into consideration, but she still has the final say over how the fic turns out.

[deathcurse]

Holy cow...... @_@ I'm so flattered at all the comments, but whew! *rolls up sleeves*

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Heh, I like. The interaction between Alto and Teana is very nice, friendly but at times a little awkward, which is really what you would expect considering what point Teana is at with her life at this moment. It's also very sweet to see how uncertain she is about seeing Subaru; that she wants to see her, but at the same time she knows things will be different because they've both changed. It's also nice to see her acknowledge that yes, she messed up, and she should have had the guts.

And on the ending.... personally, I like it, but either way I think you're going to have no choice over how people interpret the ending. It's just something that will happen regardless of what you do either way.

Thanks, I really wanted that awkward feel to be persistent throughout the whole story. My feeling of Teana is that she's still learning about being herself and she's trying to like the person that she's found herself to be .

Originally Posted by sniperk

Spoiler for Comments:

Ok... For me it was going perfectly with your intention of giving more insight on the break up and the subsequential 'going after what she missed through the years' thing until this line...

I don't know if it was just me, but it felt like she was saying she was sorry for 'ruining' the lifes of their friends, but deep down she was more sorry for the wrong decisions that she made, and in between the lines, with that in mind, I kinda read it as if she was sorry for making the wrong choice between Vice and Subaru.

With that in mind, the new ending felt somewhat forced. As I said, maybe it was just me.

I got to agree with RB here. Heck, all my comments were my interpretations on it. Just pick what you feel is the right one and stick with it.

Well, in a way, I wanted Teana to be sorry about the wrong decisions she made, but more in terms of basically taking the easy way out and agreeing instead of making up her own mind for herself . And so what I was hoping to get at was not so much making the wrong decision between Vice and Subaru, but between the easy, "Just say yes" choice and the "think about it hard--is this what you really want?" choice .

Ahhh, but you all make such good points!

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

The scene with Alto is nice *nods* Good addition.

The added line to the ending... hmm... I dunno, if anything I think it makes the possibility of Subaru falling for her again even more valid since Teana had to stop and consider it. I think you should emphasize that it was just a joke and they both understand it won't actually happen.

I had some trouble expressing that....sort of that moment when someone says something that potentially could make you uncomfortable, but you let it go and make a joke and the whole awkward moment moves on . That's the feel I was trying for that line.

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

EDIT: I utterly cannot believe how much changed since I started typing up this post! I swear, I got ninja'd by eight posts including an updated version of the story I'm commenting about! *facepalm*

(She also had another romantic relationship with another girl before Dawn.) Noted, however, that it isn't necessary to hook either one of them up with one of their previous lovers (Vice or Dawn). Just that in the year and a half since the two of them broke up with their existing relationships, either could have gotten involved in a long-term, committed relationship. No need for them to go back to someone else.

See, the problem here is that deathcurse's author's note indicated that she was trying very strongly for an open-ended resolution (a sort of "life-goes-on" ending) in which Teana ends up with neither Vice nor Subaru. Basically, she (Tea) was indecisive, didn't understand or properly confront her own feelings for either of them, and ended up with neither one. Maybe she was commitment-shy, or maybe she, ultimately, wasn't really and truly in love with either of them. Subaru (Story 1 and 3) leaves Tea because Subaru wasn't ready to wait around for someone who didn't have anything for her. Vice (Story 3) explicitly said that he was, but eventually got tired of giving more than he was receiving in the relationship...

I know, I was amazed at how fast people replied!

You pinned the point right on the head ...I don't mean to have Teana be "punished", but like you said, accepting the consequences of her indecisiveness and lack of confronting her own feelings.

But the problem is that things are open to interpretation. Consider the following:

Spoiler for Stuff driving my interpretation:

--Subaru left because she wanted a clean break with Tea, to move on. She even became involved in different romantic relationships with other people. Yet when Tea was injured, eight and a half years since Subaru had last seen her, she went back to see Tea...and then she slipped out again without facing her, without even a, "Hey, buddy, I was worried about you."

--Tea has moved into Subaru's house. In essence, she's become part of Subaru's family already, though Subaru herself wasn't there.

--Neither Tea nor Subaru are seeing other people. In fact, Tea's injury served as a Dramatic Epiphany Moment whereby Tea and Subaru both ended up breaking off their relationships with other people...and neither one of them has, apparently, so much as dated anybody else in the year and a half since then. Especially odd for Tea, who supposedly "grew a pair and moved on with her life"...but didn't, in fact, move on.

--Subaru explicitly refers to Subaru falling in love with her the first time they were friends. It echoes the theme. Tea's "I survived you the first time" response emphasizes the cyclical nature of their relationship. See, the problem is, they're supposed to be starting over as adults, in a new relationship, but instead what they actually say, as opposed to Tea's thoughts, speak more to their original friendship then the supposed new one.

So what I bring away from it is the impression that Subaru never fell out of love with Teana, despite the separation, and that Tea wants to start over because this time she intends to respond to Subaru's feelings instead of stringing her along, never confronting them.

I realize that Teana's injury was also Subaru's major life-changing moment too , but you're right! That was totally unintentional.

I did want Teana with Subaru's family because I felt that Teana, with no family of her own, appeared to have sort of taken on Subaru's family as her own...and after basically resetting her life, I thought that she might need that love and support from close friends and family (and since "close friends" Subaru, Caro and Erio are all off-world, Fate has her own family, Vice is now ex-husband....I really could only think of Subaru's family as possible support system for Teana )

So how to fix it (if deathcurse decides that she wants to do so)?

My #1 suggestion would be to get rid of Subaru's return visit during Tea's coma. The fact that she dropped everything to come visit Tea speaks of unresolved feelings. The fact that she didn't wait around for Tea to wait up and made sure that Tea didn't even know that she was there especially suggests that. If she'd just come to visit because she was worried as a friend, she'd have left a video card or flowers or something--sneaking out so Tea didn't even know she was there is the single biggest thing in the entire story that suggests to me that Subaru still has her feelings for Tea--if she didn't have the feelings that caused her to run away to Daphne, then there wouldn't be any reason for her to continue to enforce the separation, would there? Since Subaru staying during the coma is impossible for the story structure--which centers around a new, first-time reunion--then her return visit is what could change.

This is good food for thought....if I had Subaru leave flowers or a teddy bear or something, which Teana thought was just mailed to her, would that maybe diffuse the tension some? It still works with the rest of what I have, since Teana might actually be more upset that her best friend "didn't even bother showing up to visit"?

My #3 suggestion would be to give Subaru a girlfriend. Hell, give her a wife. Why make Dawn dump her (though honestly...I can so see Dawn's point here; Dawn comes to exactly the same conclusion that I did about Subaru's feelings) at all? Tea is the one who's making the Big Life Change in this story. Subaru made her decision ten years back in story time; leaving her still single makes it look like she's been in a holding pattern all this time instead of really making her decision and growing as a person because of it. There's a ton of romance stories out there where a couple knows one another, then are separated (either by random events or their own stupidity or whatever), and come back after a number of years to get together. RadiantBeam and I have recently been discussing Nora Roberts' Black Hills, in which just that happens...Why not just make Subaru move on like she intended to do when she moved out?

I wanted Subaru to have dated and such during the ten years to show that she's moved on , but I didn't want her (or Teana, for that matter) to have a current relationship because then with the kind of awkward conversation they already have at the moment, I felt like their attempts to connect would just shut down on that. Even just as friends, there's a whole jealousy and sadness and possessiveness that good friends have on each other, which would put way too much emotion into a scene that was supposed to be about just them trying to get to know each other once more .

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Nothing wrong with the new scene, but it doesn't address at all what (to me) was the main problem--Subaru's feelings. I like it, though, for how it better cements Teana's genuine desire to move forward instead of being caught in the web of her own holding pattern.

Yeah, after reading your post I realize the complication of what Subaru's feelings appear to be , but I'm glad that Teana's conflicts are pretty well tied up now.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

You also need to take into consideration that DC meant for the ending to be open as it was

Did she? I thought she said her intention was for Teana to have neither of them, and that she doesn't give happy endings. The way I personally see it, there's a very strong possibility that Teana will end up with Subaru and get a happy ending with her.

I think it's fine the way it is, but I was merely making suggestions as to how she could better reach her goals. I suppose I misunderstood what those goals were

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Did she? I thought she said her intention was for Teana to have neither of them, and that she doesn't give happy endings. The way I personally see it, there's a very strong possibility that Teana will end up with Subaru and get a happy ending with her.

I think it's fine the way it is, but I was merely making suggestions as to how she could better reach her goals. I suppose I misunderstood what those goals were

Maybe I was just too involved in the process then. But I got the impression from the short that DC was aiming for an open-ended resolution for Teana, so that you as the reader could draw your own conclusions of what happened after she and Subaru became friends again; maybe they hooked up, maybe they drifted apart again, maybe they stayed friends and dated other people. I never felt she had a definite ending in mind. It all really depends on how you interpret the ending. I could honestly see it going either way.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

I did want Teana with Subaru's family because I felt that Teana, with no family of her own, appeared to have sort of taken on Subaru's family as her own...and after basically resetting her life, I thought that she might need that love and support from close friends and family (and since "close friends" Subaru, Caro and Erio are all off-world, Fate has her own family, Vice is now ex-husband....I really could only think of Subaru's family as possible support system for Teana )

You forgot about poor Shari, didn't you?

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Maybe I was just too involved in the process then. But I got the impression from the short that DC was aiming for an open-ended resolution for Teana, so that you as the reader could draw your own conclusions of what happened after she and Subaru became friends again; maybe they hooked up, maybe they drifted apart again, maybe they stayed friends and dated other people. I never felt she had a definite ending in mind. It all really depends on how you interpret the ending. I could honestly see it going either way.

Yeah, it's just that in the author's notes it said that Teana got neither of them, so I thought the "they get together" possibility was supposed to be sunk. The fic itself, as you pointed out, leaves that route open, hense the discrepency I percieved.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Yeah, it's just that in the author's notes it said that Teana got neither of them, so I thought the "they get together" possibility was supposed to be sunk. The fic itself, as you pointed out, leaves that route open, hense the discrepency I percieved.

The idea is that in the end of the epilogue, as it was written, Teana doesn't end up with Vice or with Subaru within that one-shot. It was never specifically stated that the possibility that she would hook up with Subaru after was a sunk possibility. That's what the whole ending is based around; possibilities.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

The idea is that in the end of the epilogue, as it was written, Teana doesn't end up with Vice or with Subaru within that one-shot. It was never specifically stated that the possibility that she would hook up with Subaru after was a sunk possibility. That's what the whole ending is based around; possibilities.

Well ok then. Of course the possibility of her with Vice was completely obliterated, but I kinda expected that, actually. I wrote the Vice end myself already, so I thought DC would probably want to go with something different.

[deathcurse]

I'm working on editing and adding parts of this epilogue after all the great commentary, and I should have a final version posted soon .

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

If she'd just come to visit because she was worried as a friend, she'd have left a video card or flowers or something

Edited the story, again , and I'm going with the leaving a little gift or something ^^. While it doesn't matter too much what Subaru's feelings are in this epilogue, since the epilogue is supposed to be wrapping up Teana's development, I still would rather avoid any/too blatant subtext between the two. A little is fun and open ended, but from what people seem to have picked up on it's way beyond "a little" and more into "God, wasn't Subaru over her already?" .

My #4 suggestion would be to give Tea her own home. I can see her motivation for moving in with Subaru's family, but...seriously, it's building the ties to Subaru too closely. (Another question I'd have is why Subaru's family still lives together after ten years? Shouldn't at least some of them have moved out?) It's a peripheral matter compared to the others, but...yeah. Actually, the point about Subaru's family does tie in somewhat--Tea could, say, move in with Ginga or Cinque on a "supporting friend" basis instead of moving in with the whole Nakajima family as "part of the family."

Done, it wasn't hard to edit in, since there weren't that many references about where exactly Teana was living ^^. She's now sharing an apartment with Ginga, after having stayed at the Nakajimas for a few months before that .

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

You forgot about poor Shari, didn't you?

Well, as good of a friend that Shari is, I can still picture a better support system with the Nakajimas than with Shari, since Teana's known the Nakajimas for a longer time, and there is more of a "I belong, I have a family" feel there .

Yeah, it's just that in the author's notes it said that Teana got neither of them, so I thought the "they get together" possibility was supposed to be sunk. The fic itself, as you pointed out, leaves that route open, hense the discrepency I percieved.

It's personal bias for me, but I like people who make their decisions with firmness and thoughtfulness and refuse to just take the easy way out . So in Teana's case, I would want her to work her ass off to try and get her happy ending, which at this point she's hasn't found yet (she's still in the "learning to work for it" stage). So who knows, maybe down the road she'll get with Subaru, maybe she'll get with someone else (but alas, my happy ending for Vice takes him out of the running ). It would be too depressing if Teana gave the impression that she's never going to forgive herself and allow herself a relationship again after becoming true to herself!

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Maybe I was just too involved in the process then. But I got the impression from the short that DC was aiming for an open-ended resolution for Teana, so that you as the reader could draw your own conclusions of what happened after she and Subaru became friends again; maybe they hooked up, maybe they drifted apart again, maybe they stayed friends and dated other people. I never felt she had a definite ending in mind. It all really depends on how you interpret the ending. I could honestly see it going either way.

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

The idea is that in the end of the epilogue, as it was written, Teana doesn't end up with Vice or with Subaru within that one-shot. It was never specifically stated that the possibility that she would hook up with Subaru after was a sunk possibility. That's what the whole ending is based around; possibilities.

Nailed it . *tosses RB a cookie*

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

She's now sharing an apartment with Ginga, after having stayed at the Nakajimas for a few months before that .

...

I'm now seeing a comical misunderstanding of everybody involved who thinks that while Subaru was away and Teana was getting over her divorce, she hooked up with Ginga and they just haven't come out of the closet yet.

Nailed it . *tosses RB a cookie*

Huzzah! *catches* Is it chocolate chip?

[Satashi]

I am reading this on my phone, and it shifts the text so I can't see avatars on the side. Regardless,i can always tell who is talking by their"voice". I just wanted to say that you guys asl have a very distinguished voice that really stands out and screams your name. :3

I really like that.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by Satashi

I am reading this on my phone, and it shifts the text so I can't see avatars on the side. Regardless,i can always tell who is talking by their"voice". I just wanted to say that you guys asl have a very distinguished voice that really stands out and screams your name. :3

I really like that.

it's not like you can recognize some people by their avatar either (looking at you, radiant-change-of-avatar-hourly).

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

Nailed it . *tosses RB a cookie*

Heh, I guess I should have known better than to argue with RB when it comes to DC The Angst Alliance is tight, yo

Originally Posted by Satashi

I am reading this on my phone, and it shifts the text so I can't see avatars on the side. Regardless,i can always tell who is talking by their"voice". I just wanted to say that you guys asl have a very distinguished voice that really stands out and screams your name. :3

I really like that.

Really? That's neat

Hm... come to think of it, some of my friends are able to pick out my posts on 4chan, so I guess I really do have a recognisable 'voice'

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Hm... come to think of it, some of my friends are able to pick out my posts on 4chan, so I guess I really do have a recognisable 'voice'

I think that's true about anyone who's just being themselves on a board anywhere. There are particular ways we all speak.

And don't, in my case >_< Into the Woods closes Sunday. Maybe I can write again then?

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

And don't, in my case >_< Into the Woods closes Sunday. Maybe I can write again then?

But hey, think of it this way; when you do speak up, you always have something constructive and valuable to say.

[deathcurse]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

...

I'm now seeing a comical misunderstanding of everybody involved who thinks that while Subaru was away and Teana was getting over her divorce, she hooked up with Ginga and they just haven't come out of the closet yet.

My god, the yuri-fangirls are unstoppable!!

Huzzah! *catches* Is it chocolate chip?

Of course!

Originally Posted by Satashi

I am reading this on my phone, and it shifts the text so I can't see avatars on the side. Regardless,i can always tell who is talking by their"voice". I just wanted to say that you guys asl have a very distinguished voice that really stands out and screams your name. :3

I really like that.

Hahaha, that's really cool!

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Heh, I guess I should have known better than to argue with RB when it comes to DC The Angst Alliance is tight, yo

I admit, RB does have the unfair advantage of being my sounding board when I develop my ideas . So she kind of has insight into what I'm thinking when I write . But yes, the Dark Side is powerful and has me under its sway!

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

My god, the yuri-fangirls are unstoppable!!

...

May I have your permission, when I have the time and the energy, to write out that possible scenario?

Of course!

My favorite.

EDIT: Pageclaim for chocolate chip cookies!