Nanoha Manga Discussion

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by itanshi1

Pretty sure Al Hazard is the name of an event not the name of the ancient civilization. I have a name for it, but I'm not sure the community would accept it.

Spoiler for ourter cadia related:

Presuming the Eclipse virus originated from there, I kind have become enamored by Ecliptia.

Pretty sure that it is referred to as the name of an ancient empire that can be reached, since Al Hazred has never once been referred to as an event in; it's always an event that involves Al-Hazred, not Al-Hazred as an event.

Rechecking StrikerS, Yuuno does make reference to the Cradle being rumored to be "a relic from the lost world of Al-Hazard".

[MeisterBabylon]

Originally Posted by Tk3997

The different universe idea just does not work IMO. On the other hand the "Dimensional Sea = Hyperspace" idea works almost perfectly if we simply postulate that humans either emigrated or were taken off Earth in the distant past via some means (or take the Star Wars route and just ignore where they came from totally). Actually going back to Atlantis if one wants to get really cracky say that it acutally existed, but didn't sink rather it's residents decided to leave for the stars a good few millenia ago. Settling on a new world they decided a new name was is order and settled on Al Hazard. This explains the fairly widespread, but nonetheless seeming finite human populations on what are clearly numerous different planets and also that numerous different relative tech levels. It also explains the lack of constant attacks by extra-universal invaders and explains how the TSAB can hope to acutally police space in a meaningful way.

Of course the assumption here is that dimensions itself is arranged in the same way we think it is. It could be possible that each dimension itself is an island in the sea, with the Bureau having definite borders, and that all said action with despots, and aliens and Romunlans are happening at the borders.

The Bureau could be fighting 5 wars for all we know, even holding them all into stable stalemates, but since its just ships and no lolis we'll never see it in canon. Until someone decides to shift focus from lolis and magic and mecha refs to ships, we may never know.

In this case, both "dimensions" and "hyperspace" are true. I know it makes no sense in Science, but we already established that what we understand has little hold in Nanohaverse...

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by Tk3997

It would take as much or as little energy as the author decides is convenient to the plot.
There's no real scientific reason that teleporting a lightyear ought to use more energy then teleporting fifty feet;

"Scientific reason" is not an excuse to say something is possible or impossible in a fictional universe (or multiverse) What matters is what the creators have shown in the work itself.
So far, everything we've seen in the Nanohaverse indicate that if you want to do more, you need more energy. I simply cannot accept two tasks orders of magnitude apart in difficulty can be accomplished with the same amount of effort unless the creators straight up and tell us that's the case.

Well the alternative which is teleporting between universes hardly solves this issue! If anything it just compounds it even more adding having to find the right universe and then STILL having to find the right planet and the right exit point.

On the other hand, I can easily believe that opening a portal into dimensional space and then shifting "layers" until you come to the one adjacent to the dimension want uses orders of magnitude less energy than trying to teleport across lightyears. I won't even pretend to think the interdimensional navigation problems will be easy to solve. But I'll stand by my belief that it's less impossible than interstellar personal teleportation.
I'm not interested in bringing you around to my view. We'll just have to agree to disagree until new information appears to settle the issue. Or until you can dig up old info that supports you stand.
I would, however, like to point out that no one in the series has ever mentioned realspace distances when talking about seperate worlds.

[Arkeus]

Jimmmy_C, as i answered earlier, it's flat out stated in A's (after ep 7 fight), and shown later on with YnS, that Transfer aren't instantaneous and demands 'travel time', and that this 'travel time' depends on the person.

It could very well be that control and going slowler could be a good way to transfer farther.

[Jimmy C]

I am aware of that, but I do not remember them ever stating outright, "person Y is at world X, [number] lightyears from here" when talking about being on seperate worlds. That's why I said realspace distances previously. Had they actually stated those, I'd have to accept that all the worlds in the Nanohaverse are in our universe. As long as they stick only to travel time, I don't.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

I am aware of that, but I do not remember them ever stating outright, "person Y is at world X, [number] lightyears from here" when talking about being on seperate worlds. That's why I said realspace distances previously. Had they actually stated those, I'd have to accept that all the worlds in the Nanohaverse are in our universe. As long as they stick only to travel time, I don't.

Oh, of course. It's just that 'dimensional travel' being 'dimensional' seems there only to seem more magic than sci-fi so far, as there isn't anything that would be different if they just called it hyperspace.

Of course, it's useful if you want to cross it with something sci-fi, where in a i,j,k graph j is distance in the universe and k is the dimensional distance

[Kaijo]

They have been vague about energy requirements and teleportation. Vita in A's needed time to do a dimensional transfer,a nd it's implied that the Wolkenritter can teleport to various worlds on their own. Amy noted that the time it would take to go from Vita's location to Signum's location would take 20 minutes (hence, how could the masked man accomplish it?).

Chrono also needed to set up some sort of transport hub to more easily teleport from the Bureau to Earth and back again.

Personal teleportation to worlds is possible, though I would suspect it ain't easy and not everyone can do it.;though magical technology can help.

Edit: The concept of magical energy is not quite like the energy we know. If you believe the strikers booklets, Divine Buster Extension's special property is that it can basically fire it's beam across any distance without any power loss. Physics as we know it doesn't work this way; any transfer of mass or energy will result in energy loss, so it's technically physically impossible.

It works because it's magic. Whenever I think about trying to over-think things, I remember that, and realize that it'll just result in a headache. Calling it magic and leaving it at that, works for me.

[Blank-Mage]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

It works because it's magic. Whenever I think about trying to over-think things, I remember that, and realize that it'll just result in a headache. Calling it magic and leaving it at that, works for me.

This is why I usually stay out of conversations like device sharpness/hardness, linker core metabolism, etc.

[Goldsmith]

anyone translating?

[prescience]

I believe GiB are intending to release a translation for Force at some point, but last I heard their translator was caught up with exams, so we're probably in for a bit of a wait. No idea about ViVid or the movie manga.

[Nanya01]

Considering that GiB and Raizoo work closely together, I think that they'll wait a bit before doing the Movie manga chapter.

No clue why ViVid isn't getting translated.

[bombyethan1000]

wow why and when did people start posting in the nanoha manga thread about ViVid when there actually is another thread for the ViVid manga?
well personally I hope the ViVid thread and manga scanlation become active...

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by bombyethan1000

wow why and when did people start posting in the nanoha manga thread about ViVid when there actually is another thread for the ViVid manga?

That's what happens when people use a thread for all Nanoha manga for a long time. If the mods created a specific thread for each manga (A's, StrikerS, ViVid, Force, The Movie 1st) and actually enforced them, maybe people wouldn't fall back to using a single general thread. But alas, they only made a single separate manga thread.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by bombyethan1000

wow why and when did people start posting in the nanoha manga thread about ViVid when there actually is another thread for the ViVid manga?

Because this thread existed first and people were talking about ViVid before the ViVid thread showed up.

[itanshi1]

The noob is strong in this one. j/k

Anyways, yeah you're right insofar, el hazard may be the name of the event and subsequently what people refer to it as as a location. The El Hazard novel this is inspired from (El Hazard the series likewise takes from it) also refers to it as a location, but in Nanoha it's destruction is a notable event and calling the event that I'm fairly sure was mentioned in nanoha s1, need to refresh. I just think the old name was lost along with the civilization and so forth, hmm.


Either they say el hazard was destroyed or when el hazard occured, meh so much speculation x_x;

[Bananoha]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Considering that GiB and Raizoo work closely together, I think that they'll wait a bit before doing the Movie manga chapter.

Wait, wut. GiB is basically just me, raizoo, stealing other people's translations and removing the runes and whatnot. That said, I don't touch the other manga. Tori asked me one time to ask a translator what something was, that was it~

And yeah, my translator dood might will prolly get to Force by his New Zealand Friday morning. I have work, work and work, so I'll try to get to it eventually.

And Yukari banzaibanzaibanzai, so I'll still try to get to it eventually. BEFORE THE NEXT CHAPTER COMES, DON'T WORRY.

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by Tk3997

This is just nonsene FTL and even more so Teleporting of any kind is in itself basically outright magic to start with as it's pretty much impossible by most accepted theories of how the universe works. Since any form of either would automatically violate several rules that seem to underpin the entire universe saying that it can't work because it takes "too much energy" is just untenable.

*nod* I agree completely--any kind of FTL travel (whether by gate/wormhole, warp-drive, or hyperspace) requires at least a certain amount of handwaving to explain how it can functionally work. When you add in the fact that the technology used in MGLN is literally based on magic, extrapolating "this can't work because of X" when X is not explicitly established in-story is not reasonable. We can assume that Nanoha uses a "Magic A is Magic A" universe because people were able to get reliable technology from magic, but there's no reason to assume that in every case magical laws have to match up with physical laws.

Beyond that as noted the between universe model has all these problems and adds many more. Not the least is that if they truly are shifting between different universes then where are the infinite number of alternate TSABs, Belkan Empires that never fell, and autocratic states that came about in instead of the TSAB all waging endless war on each other across the cosmos. Where are the endless hordes of alternate mids or earths? (If you go with the multiple universes angle you're basically saying that many worlds is right and opening a HUGE can of worms)

Mind you, "different universes" does not have to mean "alternate or parallel universes" in the pop-culture-interpretation-of-quantum-physics sense. The only real difference is if there are different universes in the "dimensional sea" (whatever that is), then if you get in a standard sci-fi spaceship on any of these worlds in one universe you won't be able to get to any other universe just by traveling in physical space. In fact, it's entirely possible that FTL travel in the physical "get from Earth to Alpha Centauri" doesn't exist at all in the Nanohaverse, but that dimensional travel allows magicians to move between worlds in directions other than the standard X, Y, Z.

The bottom line is, there's just not enough data to define, specifically, what the dimensional sea is.

Originally Posted by itanshi1

Anyways, yeah you're right insofar, el hazard may be the name of the event and subsequently what people refer to it as as a location. The El Hazard novel this is inspired from (El Hazard the series likewise takes from it) also refers to it as a location, but in Nanoha it's destruction is a notable event and calling the event that I'm fairly sure was mentioned in nanoha s1, need to refresh. I just think the old name was lost along with the civilization and so forth, hmm.

Actually, in SSX, Al-Hazard is pretty well defined as a place name. See here and to a lesser extent, here.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

It works because it's magic. Whenever I think about trying to over-think things, I remember that, and realize that it'll just result in a headache. Calling it magic and leaving it at that, works for me.

Yeah, this is definitely how I have to go, here. Moreover, the fact that the high-tech in MGLN actually is magitech (that and the giant robots look like girls of various ages) is pretty much what sets it apart from Generic Sci-Fi Series X. Why attempt to nerf the one thing that makes the setting unique--and which, frankly, is the ultimate handwave for when they bring out various weirdness?

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

That's what happens when people use a thread for all Nanoha manga for a long time. If the mods created a specific thread for each manga (A's, StrikerS, ViVid, Force, The Movie 1st) and actually enforced them, maybe people wouldn't fall back to using a single general thread. But alas, they only made a single separate manga thread.

Honestly, I get what you're saying, but I personally don't see the point of having a separate thread for each running manga. The thread as a whole has managed quite well on its own, and I for one would find it rather confusing and disorganized if I had to constantly jump from thread to thread for a discussion instead of just clicking into one main place.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Honestly, I get what you're saying, but I personally don't see the point of having a separate thread for each running manga. The thread as a whole has managed quite well on its own, and I for one would find it rather confusing and disorganized if I had to constantly jump from thread to thread for a discussion instead of just clicking into one main place.

I don't see the point of it either. :V I prefer using the one thread myself. I mean, if all the other forums do it, why can't we?

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I don't see the point of it either. :V I prefer using the one thread myself. I mean, if all the other forums do it, why can't we?

Maybe because we're all so special and unique? :V

*shot repeatedly*

Seriously, something needs to get translated soon, or this thread is going to go crazy with debates and crack posts to keep it alive.