Romance in Code Geass (Take 2)

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by ashlay

I'd call it self sacrificing, not self loathing. Again, Lelouch knows who he is, that was the entire point of episode 12 and on: he knows who he is, he knows what he wants, and he knows how he wants to do things. He's going to keep pursuing that simple wish for Nunnally's happiness, no matter how bad things get, and no matter how much of himself he needs to give up to get there, and he's going to be completely honest with himself about the prices he's had to pay for that. Lelouch has always been at peace with himself, so then the only issue is if he's lost sight of himself or not.

But of course, Lelouch couldn't really give up the core of himself, and that's the beauty of 25: Lelouch tried to become truly "evil" for the sake of his dream, but in the end he's still sitting in that cave, sacrificing his own well being for the well being of Suzaku and Kallen. He failed completely, he can't stop being Lelouch no matter how hard he tried to be Zero. So in fact, Lelouch never really lost sight of himself, even when he tried his damn hardest to. He merely hid it from others.

Which brings me back to my point: To say Lelouch is self loathing is somewhat true, but it's also misleading. Lelouch doesn't need to come to understand and be honest with himself, He already gained that starting with Shriley's father's death and ending with the standoff in the cave. What he needs now is to start letting others be his accomplices, just like C.C. is. People who he show's his true self to, not the mask of Zero or the mask of a high school student. People who he'll allow to bear the burden and suffer along with him, who he won't push away, who he'll trust to fight for and bear the responsibility for his dream as well. There is nothing more Lelouch can do for himself without the help of others.

That's a very thoughtful post, but I'll just leave my comments at that, because I don't really have the time to think through a proper response.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by ashlay

Which brings me back to my point: To say Lelouch is self loathing is somewhat true, but it's also misleading. Lelouch doesn't need to come to understand and be honest with himself, He already gained that starting with Shriley's father's death and ending with the standoff in the cave. What he needs now is to start letting others be his accomplices, just like C.C. is. People who he show's his true self to, not the mask of Zero or the mask of a high school student. People who he'll allow to bear the burden and suffer along with him, who he won't push away, who he'll trust to fight for and bear the responsibility for his dream as well. There is nothing more Lelouch can do for himself without the help of others.

Yes Yes Yes! That's exactly what he needs to do! He needs friends, and accomplices, not followers. He's never gonna beat Britannia with a legion of minions following orders mindlessly while he takes the entirety of the feedback all himself with his Zero act.

He's not gonna win with a bunch of hopeless zombies, a fangirl, and Dumbass. He's gonna need Kallen, Ougi, Lee, Rollo (maybe), plus whoever else decides to help him with them knowing the stakes flat out. People to watch behind while he stays on the path ahead. The Order will work with Japan, but he'll need more than soldiers against the Emperor.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy

All of this relates back to how Lelouch will open up to the two girls. Both of the girls have the utmost devotion to him. C.C. gives him power and takes bullets. Kallen is willing to degrade her appearance for him, suffering a ton of humiliation. How will he treat them in return?

I wouldn't say it was for him as much as it was for her mother and Japan. At least at the moment.

The only real plus for Kallen in episode 26 is her line "but those without power must tolerate. Even if justice is on our side", since it at least shows she understands where Lelouch was coming from after all. (compared to her slapping him in episode 9 for saying basically the same thing. )

Still, that's not love, understanding is just a path that allows for love. (well, a far cry from Kallen who didn't even want to see who Zero was under the mask and as such wouldn't even be able to pursue a romantic relationship with him.)


The field is open, with Kallen and C.C. only looking better than the others because they at least are attempting to understand Lelouch now and are a part of his fight. But even that doesn't mean too much, a 1 second head start is still only 1 second. >_>

[Blue_Mercy]

Originally Posted by ashlay

I wouldn't say it was for him as much as it was for her mother and Japan. At least at the moment.

The only real plus for Kallen in episode 26 is her line "but those without power must tolerate. Even if justice is on our side", since it at least shows she understands where Lelouch was coming from after all. (compared to her slapping him in episode 9 for saying basically the same thing. )

Still, that's not love, understanding is just a path that allows for love. (well, a far cry from Kallen who didn't even want to see who Zero was under the mask and as such wouldn't even be able to pursue a romantic relationship with him.)


The field is open, with Kallen and C.C. only looking better than the others because they at least are attempting to understand Lelouch now and are a part of his fight. But even that doesn't mean too much, a 1 second head start is still only 1 second. >_>

I'm not looking for a head start or anything like that. I'm not betting with anyone on who he'll end up. Both are anime babes, so Lelouch can have one or the other or both. I mean his dad has 20 something wives so who knows.
If there is one thing I think Kallen's has the right to know Lelouch's background, if she doesn't already.

[KrimzonStriker]

Bah, I never liked anime endings like that myself, it's just degrading for both the character of the male protagonist and that of his female counterparts, plus Lelouch wouldn't do it PRECISELY because his father does it...>_>

[Dann of Thursday]

Ugh, I get cut off trying to respond, lose all I typed and a bunch of new comments come up. How irritating.

Originally Posted by Aquifina

I disagree; I find all this discussion of Lelouch's "truest" self ill-conceived. He is what he is; both the kind brother to Nunally, and the absolutely ruthless Zero who can manipulate a catastrophe like Euphie's death to his own advantage. Lelouch's darkness is an *integral* part of his character IMO; there's no need for him to "soften"; I don't even think it's possible. He has too much baggage. What he needs to do is not allow the darkness of his circumstances to swallow up and overwhelm the more humane parts of his character.

Judging Lelouch's interactions with potential matches by the criteria of how "kind" he acts toward them strikes me as working off of the wrong premise. Like Striker, I think honesty is a far more important factor when looking at Lelouch.

For me, the real issue with his character, I think, is whether or not he can be completely honest with himself--that he isn't just the ruthless tough guy out to destroy the world, but he is *also* the friend, brother, and maybe even a lover. Cursed as he may be, he needs to know that there can still be redemption in the darkness, even if that darkness can never be expunged. For me, C.C. is in by far the best position to comprehend the duality of his character, and, indeed, I think she may have much the same problem he has.

I agree with you that those aspects are both integral to his character, but at his core that kindness is the more dominent I think. Also, once he defeats Britannia as well as taking care of the mystery regarding his mother's death, what reason is there for that darkness to still exist? Of course, the sheer guilt of everything he has done may cover all that I suppose.

Well, that isn't exactly the best way to judge Lelouch either. He is barely ever completely honest with anyone. The whole cave scene could be seen as an example of this as well as some of his words at the end of 25. He is matter of fact with several people like C.C. and Kallen at certain times though. The whole person who I would say is just as lacking in being honest is C.C.. I've seen several times where they both seem to be doing it while talking with one another.

He also needs to learn that he can rely on everyone around him and that he doesn't have to bear the burden alone. As for C.C., is she really in a position to help him when she needs just as much help if not more? Wouldn't Lelouch need someone who isn't having the same problem as him?

Originally Posted by Aquifina

Hmmmm.... Should Kallen's pre-ep. 25 attitude toward Zero even necessarily be described as romantic? She was certainly jealous of C.C., but that could be more akin to the jealousy a child feels toward a parent who seems to pay more attention to another sibling. That kind of "starry eyed" attitude, to use Striker's phrasing, may or may not be romantic. Or to use another analogy, soldiers frequently worship their generals to the point where they'd willingly cheer them as they head off to their deaths; that may simply be the status quo Kallen has returned to in her acceptance of what happened in ep. 25.

BTW, I personally have the feeling that there's a dual quality to the kiss--it's both related somehow in a practical sense to the Geass, and in the manner in which Lelouch's powers are revived, but it's *also* a genuine expression of affection on C.C.'s part. It certainly *looked* that way to me--like something that went beyond a mechanical putting of one's lips on top of another person's.

Anyhow, regardless, I really do think that on the face of it, the kiss looks a heck of a lot more promising than just the fact Kallen gets over Zero's seeming betrayal in ep. 25.

I'd agree with this interpretation of Kallen's feelings entirely. Yet this isn't a problem anymore since she had that vision shattered and has gotten over the fact that Lelouch is Zero which is a major plus for her.

I'd say there was little romantic implications with the kiss given that they pretty much said so as well as the fact that romance was kept out of Season 1.There may have been some affection along with the possibility that it didn't have to be a kiss. I actually find the prospect of it being romantic troublesome since it seems like jumping the gun way to fast with things, which makes me think Kallen's case is all the stronger.

Originally Posted by ashlay

Lelouch couldn't fool himself in season 1, he ended up acting for the sake of his sister and his friends when it came down to it.

I think the bigger issue for Lelouch isn't so much if he can be honest with himself about who he is, it's if he can be honest with others about who he is. Lelouch keeps on putting on these masks of Zero or of a villain for the sake of others, pushing people away from him because he thinks they'll be happier if they aren't involved in his really soul crushingly tragic war, constantly putting himself at a massive detriment.

Still, I basically agree with you otherwise, C.C. and Lelouch are kindred souls of a sort, at least compared to everyone else in this story.

But, now that dream has been destroyed, and we simply have Lelouch and Kallen, instead of Kallen and her unrealistic image of Zero. So basically, Lelouch x Kallen is now fair game. Not like that gives her an advantage over any of the other girls, but at least she's in the race.

He never really pushed C.C. away at all, which I think he couldn't due anyway. I find this a bad sign as well since I'd think the person he becomes romantically involved with would be someone who came to him depsite all the pushing away. C.C. hasn't shown many signs that she is going to do anything to save Lelouch from this. She may not see a need to unless it threatens the contract.

Kindred sould is one way of looking at it though this guarentees nothing.

The fact that they are putting her fully in the playing field now makes me think that this will be her time. She may end up coming farther than C.C. ever did.

Originally Posted by ashlay

I wouldn't say it was for him as much as it was for her mother and Japan. At least at the moment.

The only real plus for Kallen in episode 26 is her line "but those without power must tolerate. Even if justice is on our side", since it at least shows she understands where Lelouch was coming from after all. (compared to her slapping him in episode 9 for saying basically the same thing. )

Still, that's not love, understanding is just a path that allows for love. (well, a far cry from Kallen who didn't even want to see who Zero was under the mask and as such wouldn't even be able to pursue a romantic relationship with him.)

The field is open, with Kallen and C.C. only looking better than the others because they at least are attempting to understand Lelouch now and are a part of his fight. But even that doesn't mean too much, a 1 second head start is still only 1 second. >_>

That may have been her only gain in 26, but it already puts her quite close to C.C. with simply understanding that.


I'm honestly afraid of this going into a love triangle which I just see as a negative that has the inevitable conclusion of Kallen winning and C.C. losing in the end though still being close with Lelouch.

There are a few factors that still worry me quite a lot. One is the thought that since C.C. is immortal, she may have descendents. This brings up the troublesome possibility of her being related to Lelouch or some rather irritating cliche I have seen happen when they do something like this.

Another is her real name. It's been said that the revealing of this would mean they would have to change all the relationship charts which makes me worry that the sheer consequences of this name will make the pairing impossible.

And yet another is the fact that Kallen is the only female lead beside C.C. on Lelouch's side who has a shot at him. Not only does this make her chances extremely good, but I also doubt that they are going to leave someone like Kallen without someone in the end and with Lelouch the only option, the end is obvious.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

He never really pushed C.C. away at all, which I think he couldn't due anyway. I find this a bad sign as well since I'd think the person he becomes romantically involved with would be someone who came to him depsite all the pushing away. C.C. hasn't shown many signs that she is going to do anything to save Lelouch from this. She may not see a need to unless it threatens the contract.

Did you not see all the scenes 23 and 24? How about the first half of 15? or 10 and 11?

Lelouch pushes C.C. away all the time. Not like what he was trying to do with Ougi and co. or with Shirley, but he was being a complete jerk to her on all those occasions. Of course then he inevitably remembers that she's a person too, with emotions and a huge amount of pain and suffering, and that she really is his partner in crime. At which point he stops being mean to her and starts trying to do things to support her.


And stop assuming the worst for C.C. just because she's immortal and then pushing Kallen Dann. Kallen's got a dead brother she loves, and plenty of easy ways to walk into all sorts of other death flags. Anyone can end up with Lelouch right now. Anyone.

oh, and we already had this discussion of "can people who are both suffering help each other" already. The "If it could happen in Infinite Ryvius" principle applies here.

[KrimzonStriker]

He also needs to learn that he can rely on everyone around him and that he doesn't have to bear the burden alone. As for C.C., is she really in a position to help him when she needs just as much help if not more? Wouldn't Lelouch need someone who isn't having the same problem as him?

He isn't alone if I recall his own words, what he said to C.C applys to him as well according to her "The one who will be with you to the end, is me" line >_> It's actually good medicine because by looking at someone much like yourself it essentially creates a mirror effect, which leads you to face your issues (the Sound episode where C.C gets a new wardrobe). The only one who can ever really help you is yourself, others can only lend you the aid of letting you face your problems, which C.C has done a few times last I recall (Episode 13, 23) and Lelouch has done with her (Episode 11, 25)

He never really pushed C.C. away at all, which I think he couldn't due anyway. I find this a bad sign as well since I'd think the person he becomes romantically involved with would be someone who came to him depsite all the pushing away. C.C. hasn't shown many signs that she is going to do anything to save Lelouch from this. She may not see a need to unless it threatens the contract.

Kindred sould is one way of looking at it though this guarentees nothing.

The fact that they are putting her fully in the playing field now makes me think that this will be her time. She may end up coming farther than C.C. ever did.

Oh, then all those comedic scenes where everyone thought she was his girlfriend weren't him pushing her away, or when he blamed her for what happened to Shirley (and for her responsibility towards Mao and the contract) but ended up rescuing her from Mao anyway?

At this point the contract is integral with Lelouch, so I doubt we won't see many more scenes where the two have opportunities to get closer as individuals

Bah, and guranteeing nothing isn't a valid excuse to get as mopey about it as you have Dann.

And what, C.C wasn't involved in that whole 'rescue Lelouch' operation either I suppose?

That may have been her only gain in 26, but it already puts her quite close to C.C. with simply understanding that.


I'm honestly afraid of this going into a love triangle which I just see as a negative that has the inevitable conclusion of Kallen winning and C.C. losing in the end though still being close with Lelouch.

There are a few factors that still worry me quite a lot. One is the thought that since C.C. is immortal, she may have descendents. This brings up the troublesome possibility of her being related to Lelouch or some rather irritating cliche I have seen happen when they do something like this.

Another is her real name. It's been said that the revealing of this would mean they would have to change all the relationship charts which makes me worry that the sheer consequences of this name will make the pairing impossible.

And yet another is the fact that Kallen is the only female lead beside C.C. on Lelouch's side who has a shot at him. Not only does this make her chances extremely good, but I also doubt that they are going to leave someone like Kallen without someone in the end and with Lelouch the only option, the end is obvious

.

Hey, Marianne is watching over her shoulder, I'm sure C.C has access and insight into Lelouch even he doesn't know about

What, you didn't see C.C kick butt in 15, she can hold her own in a cat fight On a more serious note I'll bring up Lelouch's own reception of C.C compared to Kallen and once AGAIN the Geass aspect of his life that only C.C can really provide guidance on.

Oh c'mon, we don't even know if her kind can even have kids... plus that would be such obvious garbage I'd throw the script at Tanaguchi for coming up with something like that. Oh and the jealousy scenes STILL leave me in a bit of doubt that their related of all things.

Like I said, her name only seems to have worked in developing things with Lelouch so we can't assume it's necessarily bad, so we'll see where it leads too, that's all.

Okay, Kallen I can actually see without anyone (anyone else got that rough and tumble single female soldier vibe?), lonely and deprived C.C I can't anymore, it's happened way too much already and the way Lelouch took a stand on it just helps me think we may just get some where between those two after all.

Look, Dann, your getting WAY too paranoid about everything now. You should just relax and let the series roll over you before you make any actual decisions about stuff or issues that may not even exist!

[Babaganush]

i think i just joined for this discussion everyone make good points

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Okay, Kallen I can actually see without anyone (anyone else got that rough and tumble single female soldier vibe?), lonely and deprived C.C I can't anymore, it's happened way too much already and the way Lelouch took a stand on it just helps me think we may just get some where between those two after all.

i don't think i agree with rough soldier she show very different thing in 13. after that i liked her more than c2 she more fragile than she lets on like c2 but shows her fragile side more often.

i voted for both kallen and c2 after reading the big debates but i think i choose kallen for now, c2 has to many negatives i think

sorry for english

[Dann of Thursday]

Originally Posted by ashlay

Did you not see all the scenes 23 and 24? How about the first half of 15? or 10 and 11?

Lelouch pushes C.C. away all the time. Not like what he was trying to do with Ougi and co. or with Shirley, but he was being a complete jerk to her on all those occasions. Of course then he inevitably remembers that she's a person too, with emotions and a huge amount of pain and suffering, and that she really is his partner in crime. At which point he stops being mean to her and starts trying to do things to support her.

And stop assuming the worst for C.C. just because she's immortal and then pushing Kallen Dann. Kallen's got a dead brother she loves, and plenty of easy ways to walk into all sorts of other death flags.

Well, it didn't seem like he was pushing her away for her own good which he does with everyone else. He seems to push her away some of those times because of mistrust regarding her.

Being immortal seems like one of the biggest death flags I can think of, and I know that doesn't make sense. And I simply can't imagine them killing off Kallen. It's not because I like her more than anyone else, I just have some odd feeling she is not going to die.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

He isn't alone if I recall his own words, what he said to C.C applys to him as well according to her "The one who will be with you to the end, is me" line >_> It's actually good medicine because by looking at someone much like yourself it essentially creates a mirror effect, which leads you to face your issues (the Sound episode where C.C gets a new wardrobe). The only one who can ever really help you is yourself, others can only lend you the aid of letting you face yourself, which C.C has done a few times last I recall (Episode 13, 23) and Lelouch has done with her (Episode 11, 25)

Oh, then all those comedic scenes where everyone thought she was his girlfriend weren't him pushing her away, or when he blamed her for what happened to Shirley (and for her responsibility towards Mao and the contract) but ended up rescuing her from Mao anyway?
At this point the contract is integral with Lelouch, so I doubt we won't see many more scenes where the two have opportunities to get closer as individuals

Bah, and guranteeing nothing isn't a valid excuse to get as mopey about it as you have Dann.

And what, C.C wasn't involved in that whole 'rescue Lelouch' operation either I suppose?

.Hey, Marianne is watching over her shoulder, I'm sure C.C has access and insight to Lelouch even he doesn't know about

What, you didn't see C.C kick butt in 15, she can hold her own in a cat fight On a more serious note I'll bring up Lelouch's own reception of C.C compared to Kallen and once AGAIN the Geass aspect of his life that only C.C can really provide guidance on.

Oh c'mon, we don't even know if her kind can even have kids... plus that would be such obvious garbage I'd throw the script at Tanaguchi for coming up with something like that. Oh and the jealousy scenes STILL leave me in a bit of doubt that their related of all things.

Like I said, it only seems to have worked in developing things with Lelouch so we can't assume it's necessarily bad, so we'll see where it leads too, that's all.

Okay, Kallen I can actually see without anyone (anyone else got that rough and tumble single female soldier vibe? ), lonely and deprived C.C I can't anymore, it's happened way too much already and the way Lelouch took a stand on it just helps me think we may get some where between those two after all.

Look, Dann, your getting WAY too paranoid about everything now. You should just relax and let the series roll over you before you make any actual decisions about stuff or issues that may not even exist!

Do the two of them really need someone exactly like themselves though? And that line by C.C. never felt right with me at any point.

The contract represents C.C.'s biggest problem and that is her relation to Geass which dominates her almost entirely. I can't see her forming a romantic relationship or truly loving him unless that gets taken care of somehow. And that likely isn't going to get resolved to the end if at all.

I sometimes see her ties to Marianne as a strike against her for some reason. It seems somewhat awkward to form a romantic relationship with the son of someone who is in her head. It also seems like an almost unfair advantage. Unless Marianne somehow approved of it, hence all her little comments from the game that seem like teasing to me.

I can't help but wonder if the Geass aspect will be gone by the end of the show though. It seems somewhat odd if that still dominated his life in the end.

She can't remember things so it could be possible. I admit at this point that it would be utterly ridiculous as well as a bad plot point, to me anyway. Well, she is human to some degree anyway unless she is like the immortals from Highlander who can't have children. That seems like a sad thing if it were true, especially if the pairing happened in the end.

The way they talked about the name made it sound like the consequences would be bad and I can't think of how they could be good.

It's possible, but it seems odd for some reason for them to go that way. I don't want to see C.C. without anyone anymore though. I think she has been alone for long enough and deserves her happiness now.

Maybe I am, but I have to consider every possible aspect of things.

Originally Posted by Babaganush

i don't think i agree with rough soldier she show very different thing in 13. after that i liked her more than c2 she more fragile than she lets on like c2 but shows her fragile side more often.

i voted for both kallen and c2 after reading the big debates but i think i choose kallen for now, c2 has to many negatives i think

sorry for english

This is true. We have seen plenty of times where Kallen has shown a fragile side. I don't know about more fragile though. C.C. has simply been shown to mask that side of her, but when it shows it really shows. And C.c. doesn't show it often because of what she has been through.

And the negatives seem too much of a problem to be dealt with in a realistic way.

[KrimzonStriker]

Maybe I am, but I have to consider every possible aspect of things.

Dann, most of your reasoning is based on gut feelings instead of actual analysis and conclusive evidence... and things that might or might not necessarily apply here... really, just take a break, drink some tea and calm down a little before you get back onto your computer and post again

[Dann of Thursday]

Okay, that may very well be true. I just see things sometimes.

Another thing regarding your thoughts on Taniguchi's interpretation of love, wouldn't Kallen be the likelier candidate for that considering she had development with Lelouch first while C.C. didn't have anything to do with Lelouch till episode 5 after the initial meeting. I also wonder if their positions may be the same as they were by the end of the show, with C.C. possibly in a different position than before. Of course, I'm only thinking of this because of episode 26 which had a large number of parallels with episode 1.

Gah, I need sleep.

[KrimzonStriker]

Another thing regarding your thoughts on Taniguchi's interpretation of love, wouldn't Kallen be the likelier candidate for that considering she had development with Lelouch first while C.C. didn't have anything to do with Lelouch till episode 5 after the initial meeting. I also wonder if their positions may be the same as they were by the end of the show, with C.C. possibly in a different position than before. Of course, I'm only thinking of this because of episode 26 which had a large number of parallels with episode 1.

Oh, and I suppose the check-up on him during the sound episode didn't count?

Look, you can't base everything off of trying to predict the story pattern off of something as complicated and as twisting as Code Geass with such little information to go on. I mean, besides the irony of the pattern, it has no real bearing on the plot unless that was Tanaguchi's intention in the first place. Look, at this point we can't say that C.C is definetly or even most likely out of the running, same for Kallen, it's really all up in the air at this point and there's no use aggravating yourself over it until it does.

In any case, get some rest Dann, I think you need it

[Aquaman OS]

It's not like we can really predict what's gonna happen. Just wait and see. For all we know the OP of R2 will give it away with random shots of Lelouch and C.C. or Kallen naked together ala the Seed OPs thus answering our question before the seasons even begun.

[Dann of Thursday]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Oh, and I suppose the check-up on him during the sound episode didn't count?

Look, you can't base everything off of trying to predict the story pattern off of something as complicated and as twisting as Code Geass with such little information to go on. I mean, besides the irony of the pattern, it has no real bearing on the plot unless that was Tanaguchi's intention in the first place. Look, at this point we can't say that C.C is definetly or even most likely out of the running, same for Kallen, it's really all up in the air at this point and there's no use aggravating yourself over it until it does.

In any case, get some rest Dann, I think you need it

Oh, that was just a simple check-up for Marianne. She could have pointed him in the right direction at least. What somewhat annoys me is how Kallen and C.C. both had the same relationship with Lelouch that gives off that whole "I hate you now, but I'll fall for you later" feel to it with Kallen having the more common way of doing this since she hated him first and now is gradually warming up to him which is that common Tsundere way of doing things like this.

I know that's true.

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

It's not like we can really predict what's gonna happen. Just wait and see. For all we know the OP of R2 will give it away with random shots of Lelouch and C.C. or Kallen naked together ala the Seed OPs thus answering our question before the seasons even begun.

I'd be a little surprised if we saw that. Besides, with C.C. you could still find some way to say it was just the contract. I have no idea how, but you could. I'm somewhat curious as to how he timed the images with the song myself. It would be great if they made it simpler by doing that though then I'd be worrying when they were going to suddenly kill C.C..

[Nilie]

I dunno why some of you guys keep thinking it's either Kallen or C.C for Lulu XD I mean, Shirley is an option, she certainly is the only one who's made her intentions towards him perfectly clear :P
Kallen, well, she's a hot babe, but she's also kinda suicidal so she's the one I'm worried about the most really as far as character deaths go. I would have been worried about Suzaku too if it weren't for the "LIVE!" command XD

Lelouch is safe enough coz C.C is seemingly always around as an immortal human shield XD

For now, what WOULD be funny would be to place some bets on the OP! XD Like, I bet my dignity in character shipping that there will be a shot of Kallen and Suzaku or Nina and Sayoko/ on the same image somehow.

:P Just for fun!! Come one people, place you bets! The winner gets a pouch of cookies. XD Or a fic or fanart from me, as a request. (Please don't make me regret saying this!)

So humor me! Go ahead! XD I say Kaguya/Nanally in the same shot! :3

------- Edit

Oh, btw, remind me when the first OP will be available for our hungry eyes exactly? *gets ready to set alarm*

[KrimzonStriker]

Oh, that was just a simple check-up for Marianne. She could have pointed him in the right direction at least. What somewhat annoys me is how Kallen and C.C. both had the same relationship with Lelouch that gives off that whole "I hate you now, but I'll fall for you later" feel to it with Kallen having the more common way of doing this since she hated him first and now is gradually warming up to him which is that common Tsundere way of doing things like this.

I know that's true.

Technically she did help him out with finding Nunnally, with her whole "What you're looking for is close by" line.

In any event, you did say which of them had the first formal meeting and so I chalk that up to C.C

The first formal meeting between Kallen and Lelouch was when he jacked her walkie frequency and took command of her entire resistance force in order to crush Clovis. I sensed neither hate nor actual feelings involved between the two during the interaction, just the thing they always are into Season 1, commander and subordinate. I never got the whole 'I hate you now, but I'll fall for you later" vibe until around episode 9 myself, and that was when she really hated the Lelouch he put up to the one he was when he was Zero. Even the shower scene was just a another one-up display of how Lelouch had total control over her since the beginning, and that kind of start kind of prevented me from ever liking the idea of the pairing.

I'd be a little surprised if we saw that. Besides, with C.C. you could still find some way to say it was just the contract. I have no idea how, but you could. I'm somewhat curious as to how he timed the images with the song myself. It would be great if they made it simpler by doing that though then I'd be worrying when they were going to suddenly kill C.C..

And I think your becoming overly paranoid again Dann, like one of those conspiracy theory type of guys who sees a sign of the apocalypse at every Dunkin' Donughts shop Look, what may or may not happen with C.C aside, your really over thinking everything too much Dann, just take a deep breathe and try to relax and enjoy the series, no matter what happens

I dunno why some of you guys keep thinking it's either Kallen or C.C for Lulu XD I mean, Shirley is an option, she certainly is the only one who's made her intentions towards him perfectly clear :P

We've all gone over Shirley like a bag of bricks dropped on a car fendor before now, it's just not likely given everything we've been shown up to this point and the indications of where the show will be going. Sure she has a 'shot' if Tanaguchi wanted to shoot himself in the foot after everything we went through and established in Season 1 and in terms of story writing because you don't file off potential love interests in the side-character section where she doesn't get much billing in ads or in terms of relevance to the plot compared to two other potential candidates.

[Var]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Technically she did help him out with finding Nunnally, with her whole "What you're looking for is close by" line.

In any event, you did say which of them had the first formal meeting and so I chalk that up to C.C

Formal?... No, formal goes to Kallen no matter how you might spin it. Face to face or not, they met.

Then we can always go into the symbolism of people seeing the other unnoticed, C.C. sees Lelouch first, but Lelouch sees Kallen first. We could spin this in a crazy thing where C.C. will fall in love with Lelouch, but Lelouch will fall in love with Kallen.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

The first formal meeting between Kallen and Lelouch was when he jacked her walkie frequency and took command of her entire resistance force in order to crush Clovis. I sensed neither hate nor actual feelings involved between the two during the interaction, just the thing they always are into Season 1, commander and subordinate. I never got the whole 'I hate you now, but I'll fall for you later" vibe until around episode 9 myself, and that was when she really hated the Lelouch he put up to the one he was when he was Zero. Even the shower scene was just a another one-up display of how Lelouch had total control over her since the beginning, and that kind of start kind of prevented me from ever liking the idea of the pairing.

If we're going by semantics, the first non-manipulative interactions with Lelouch still go to Kallen. Her's occur in 8-9ish, whereas C.C. don't 'start' (>.>) till at least 11.

[KrimzonStriker]

Then we can always go into the symbolism of people seeing the other unnoticed, C.C. sees Lelouch first, but Lelouch sees Kallen first. We could spin this in a crazy thing where C.C. will fall in love with Lelouch, but Lelouch will fall in love with Kallen.

Ah, but they met because Lelouch saw C.C's holographic image or whatever it was on top of her truck, plus like I said the two met during the sound episode when he was a kid

If we're going by semantics, the first non-manipulative interactions with Lelouch still go to Kallen. Her's occur in 8-9ish, whereas C.C. don't 'start' (>.>) till at least 11.

Hmm, I thought I just pointed out that whole interaction with Kallen in 8-9 was manipulation on his part, if we really want to go with an non-manipulative event.... well I was going to say 12 but that can be explained with how he needed to gauge his support since Tamaki brought up the how no one could trust him because they didn't know his face. But Kirihara's support takes care of that well enough Then there's 13 but the way he spun it was one where I could just as easily say he hit all the necessary buttons on Kallen in order to make her agree to stay and fight for him while working to confirm her conviction so that she didn't hesitate in battle. I mean... really none of their interactions didn't look like they could have been completely manipulative to me on his part to Kallen >_>

[Blue_Mercy]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

The first formal meeting between Kallen and Lelouch was when he jacked her walkie frequency and took command of her entire resistance force in order to crush Clovis. I sensed neither hate nor actual feelings involved between the two during the interaction, just the thing they always are into Season 1, commander and subordinate. I never got the whole 'I hate you now, but I'll fall for you later" vibe until around episode 9 myself, and that was when she really hated the Lelouch he put up to the one he was when he was Zero. Even the shower scene was just a another one-up display of how Lelouch had total control over her since the beginning, and that kind of start kind of prevented me from ever liking the idea of the pairing.

That's just it Krimzon. It doesn't matter which of the two they go with there are always going to be people that are going to be upset over it.

We've all gone over Shirley like a bag of bricks dropped on a car fendor before now, it's just not likely given everything we've been shown up to this point and the indications of where the show will be going. Sure she has a 'shot' if Tanaguchi wanted to shoot himself in the foot after everything we went through and established in Season 1 and in terms of story writing because you don't file off potential love interests in the side-character section where she doesn't get much billing in ads or in terms of relevance to the plot compared to two other potential candidates.

Exactly, I HATE it the most when anime directors make some out of left field choice like Shirley or Milly. They are left field choices for exactly the reason you mentioned. They would make all of season 1 pointless. Lelouch said Shirley is an important friend. Milly and Lelouch never had a single romantic moment in all of season 1.