Higurashi Gou - Anime Episode Discussion Thread (OG/Kai spoilers OK)

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

After onidamashi arc, my assumptions are the following:

Spoiler:

-Rika had a tunnel vision on Takano and Keiichi and most likely paid the price for it.
I suspect that she tipped either Irie or Tomitake or even both regarding Takano since her statement and appearance in ep2 confirms it is Rika post Matsuribayashi/Saikoroshi, so she knows full well who is her "real enemy". Because of this, Tokyo most likely had to shut down the project early, which would explain why Tomitake and Takano are missing : Tomitake was either taking Takano in custody or treated for being potentially drugged or whatnot. Likewise, it also explains why nothing happened to Hinamizawa. The side effect is that Satoko probably didn't receive any treatment and went to L5 after learning what happened to Rena and Keiichi. Therefore, Rika probably gave up and killed herself just like in Meakashi.
Meanwhile, Rika didn't realize Rena was the one who was about to reach L5, which explains why she believed it was Keiichi who went paranoid even though we know for fact Rena mental health was as bad as Tsumihoroboshi with the non keiichi POV scenes.

-Keiichi's struggle against Rena was most likely hallucinations for the latter half. The first half is, however, definitely the truth: Keiichi doesn't know about Rena's family issues nor her recent tendencies of scratching her neck. Because of this, it is safe to assume Rena symptoms dangerously went to L3-L4 in the middle of onidamashi, bursted to L5 prompting her to kill Keiichi in a very cold blood way before Keiichi inadvertally put her plan to jeopardy and forced her to improvise, which explains why her modus operandi went very south.
On the flipside, Keiichi most likely went to L5 temporarily during the fight because of his recent paranoia and the huge stress he got witnessing Rena going insane. This would explain 1) him surviving so many stabs 2) how Rena was killed by an alarm "clock".
The fact we don't know how Rena actually died is a huge giveaway something isn't right. And I assume it is because of such weird circumstances that Tokyo silenced Keiichi to avoid any possible scandal regarding the syndrome, since the village itself is pretty "normal".

The remaining questions are:
-What is Tokyo really trying to do in such circumstances? Really sweeping everything under the rug?
-What exactly triggered Rena? Rina swindling Rena's father with Teppei again and Keiichi was too close to a body bag?
-What's Rika's endgame now? To be honest, the way how she tried to help people in Onidamashi was as subverted as the original arcs albeit slightly more involved considering how she tried to shoot down Keiichi's paranoia. But that's kind of mediocre considering she knows everything.

It is worth noting that Keiichi was unconscious/in a coma for weeks considering his parents and Mion's reactions. The "two days" thing was a referrence to Mion complaining Keiichi was out of Hinamizawa for "ages" even if it only lasted 2 days. That's why he was like "huh, I guess it isn't 2 days this time".

As for my general opinion, I'd rather wait for the second and third arcs to have a proper take on Gou in general. It could be either some filler similar to PS2/DS arcs, or it could give a new spin. From my perspective, it seems Gou is giving a new kind of "enemy/rule" to Rika and how things can go extremely south.
As for the production values, I must admit that Gou had a weak execution when it comes to creepy stuff and the likes. Most scenes involving horror and thrills are pretty tame or badly timed/presented. I was pretty disappointed how Keiichi and Ooishi discussions were "talking heads" with little weight to the atmosphere, while Rena's usoda scene lacked a lot of punch because it couldn't let the mood sink (no transition from unsettling BGM to silence + crows flying away etc).
However, Gou gives more justice to the kids considering the club activities and banters are closer to the original story.

Design wise, it is fine although the color palette is a bit too agressive compared to the original.

Realistically and medically speaking, someone with that amount of stab injuries and resultant blood loss isn't going to be speaking and sitting on their bed in just two days, no matter how many bags of blood products you transfuse in that time (and you can't really transfuse so much in a short amount of time anyway).

[Klashikari]

Yes and it is very likely Keiichi was discovered by his parents the very next day, so I believe they really do that to make it obvious "something aint right".
That said, Keiichi was definitely in a life threatening situation, which explains his parents reactions, Ooishi not being pushy (since self defense is obvious in this case) and Mion's mention of a miracle.

By the way, the nurse design is uncanningly similar to the one who killed Satoko in Yakusamashi (S2 original prologue arc). So yeah.

[Kanon]

So is it okay to mention events from the original series? Do we need to keep them under spoiler tags? I'm not too clear on the rules.

Has the staff said anything about who the target audience is? Original fans, new viewers, both?

I wonder how they will handle the next arc. This one was some sort of mix between Onikakushi and its answer arc, but Watanagashi and its answer arc are pretty much the same with a change of POV so not sure what they'll do to surprise us.

[SidVicious]

Originally Posted by Kanon

So is it okay to mention events from the original series? Do we need to keep them under spoiler tags? I'm not too clear on the rules.

Has the staff said anything about who the target audience is? Original fans, new viewers, both?

I wonder how they will handle the next arc. This one was some sort of mix between Onikakushi and its answer arc, but Watanagashi and its answer arc are pretty much the same with a change of POV so not sure what they'll do to surprise us.

Since this is a sequel...maybe?

[Liddo-kun]

episode 4:

horrifying battle with Mad Rena!!

the alarm clock remove Rena's hp, before Keichi ran out of hp himself. lol

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kanon

So is it okay to mention events from the original series? Do we need to keep them under spoiler tags? I'm not too clear on the rules.

You are free to not use spoiler tags when it comes discussing Gou with previous series/games, since Gou blatantly expose information that shouldn't be known at that point and obviously give a very different impression as result. Going to edit the title and opening post of the thread.
As usual, feel free to use spoiler tags for your assumptions/theories for sake of courtesy, although the other thread is much better for that (and for expectations/speculations for the other arcs).

Has the staff said anything about who the target audience is? Original fans, new viewers, both?

IIRC, Ryukishi stated this series was meant to be enjoyed for by newcomers and veterans alike.
To be really honest, it feels like lip service that is meant to attract as many people as possible, but that's about it.

[maximilianjenus]

I think the person who killed Rika and satoko was Rena, the modus operandi is the same, and if Rika tried to help Rena, that is enough to trigger Rena against her.

[grecefar]

Rika previous knowledged didn't help at all, I knew it wasn't going to be that easy. Rena got HS because there were two disappearance and no deads so she thought oyashiro-sama would get her, so take the matter with her own hands to make a balance I think, she killed satoko and rika to made things right but she was already far in the syndorme so she didn't stop.I think it went this way...

It was a mix of onikakushi, tsumihoboroshi and some original, there are clues in the original that we can't forget like irie clinic remodeling.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, I did like how they showed everything, with Keiichi seeing that broadcast that probably triggered everything, and then "Rena" getting back up after being taken out and stabbing him School Days style while being simply impervious to everything. We thought the needle was bad, but it could be much worse. And because this is being shown without Keiichi being able to see it, this means Rena did really bring the deadly armory. Although I never remembered Rena being so thorough; that sounds like something I'd expect from Shion.

So Keiichi was doing fine until Rena decided to kill him which sent him down the spiral, but even with this, he didn't die until the Nurse did him in.

It looks like a failure, but with people still remembering things from the past timelines again makes me wonder if there will be more help and resolve from the friends in the last arcs. He did pretty good considering all things.

Also it looks like Rika took herself out with Satoko as a mercy kill due to l5? Yikes.

[Jan-Poo]

Looking around I've seen three main theories about what happened:

1) Rena L5. According to this theory what K1 saw was mostly the truth. Rena went through the same events of Tsumihoroboshi with some variance and everything was narrated through K1's perspective giving it the illusion that it was Onikakushi.

2) K1 L5. According to this theory what K1 saw was mostly a delusion. Rena never tried to hurt him, but he killed her thinking that she was trying to. So this would be pretty similar to Onikakushi, but with some twist.

3) Third party killer. According to this theory the real killer is a third party. In other words a 3rd party was present during K1 and Rena's encounter, and this 3rd party killed both of them, though due to HS or something, K1 believes it was Rena who assaulted him. The same 3rd party killer the day after killed Satoko and Rika in a similar way.

[Jaden]

I'm going with number 1.

Don't like 2, because Keiichi opening the door and trusting Rena again isn't consistent with L5.

Don't like 3, because it wasn't foreshadowed.

As for how Rika and Satoko died, my theory is Rika did it. I think she might be more ruthless this time around, so when she realized that she got it wrong and her friend died, she immediately committed suicide to return by death. Satoko got in the way, trying to stop her, so Rika killed her first.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Kanon

So is it okay to mention events from the original series? Do we need to keep them under spoiler tags? I'm not too clear on the rules.

Has the staff said anything about who the target audience is? Original fans, new viewers, both?

I wonder how they will handle the next arc. This one was some sort of mix between Onikakushi and its answer arc, but Watanagashi and its answer arc are pretty much the same with a change of POV so not sure what they'll do to surprise us.

What I saw in an official tweet from the show account (can't find it at the moment, just my discussion with someone over it) was 完全 新作 which roughly translates to "completely new work". I don't think we have clear confirmation one way or the other. I feel like it might still be a sequel but I guess we won't know until the end of the first cour at the very least.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Dextro

What I saw in an official tweet from the show account (can't find it at the moment, just my discussion with someone over it) was 完全 新作 which roughly translates to "completely new work". I don't think we have clear confirmation one way or the other. I feel like it might still be a sequel but I guess we won't know until the end of the first cour at the very least.

We already know it's a sequel, the scene with Rika and Hanyuu made that clear at the beginning of episode two. But it could be a newbie friendly sequel, even if it's really not the impression I get.

As for the theories above, 2 can be crossed out. Keiichi was genuinely injured, nobody was treating him like a murderer, and as mentioned above, we were shown Rena unveiling her killing tools without Keiichi seeing it so it can't have been a hallucination.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kanon

We already know it's a sequel, the scene with Rika and Hanyuu made that clear at the beginning of episode two. But it could be a newbie friendly sequel, even if it's really not the impression I get.

It might not strictly require knowledge of the previous episodes, but it has already spoiled Hanyuu, the fact that Rika can repeat the events and knows what's going on, K1 flashback memory also reveals the ending of Onikakushi (not like the ending song isn't spoiling it even more). I can only see that kind of "spoilers" only increase from now on.

So in the end if someone doesn't want to get spoiled on key information regarding the original run of Higurashi, they really shouldn't be here.

[erneiz_hyde]

What's the possibility that this ending means that someone actually managed to make the elusive cure for Lv.5?

[Liddo-kun]

I remember a stabbing victim here in my country, she received about 40 stab wounds. She survived, and was able to identify her attacker. And she ended up in the exact bedridden situation as K1 in the anime. So for me, it's believable he survived the 28+ stabs from Rena.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Looking around I've seen three main theories about what happened:

1) Rena L5. According to this theory what K1 saw was mostly the truth. Rena went through the same events of Tsumihoroboshi with some variance and everything was narrated through K1's perspective giving it the illusion that it was Onikakushi.

2) K1 L5. According to this theory what K1 saw was mostly a delusion. Rena never tried to hurt him, but he killed her thinking that she was trying to. So this would be pretty similar to Onikakushi, but with some twist.

3) Third party killer. According to this theory the real killer is a third party. In other words a 3rd party was present during K1 and Rena's encounter, and this 3rd party killed both of them, though due to HS or something, K1 believes it was Rena who assaulted him. The same 3rd party killer the day after killed Satoko and Rika in a similar way.

I think it's neither of the three. First of all, chances are high that both Rena and Keiichi went L5. Keiichi in this arc had no way to know of the throat-clawing nature of L5, which leads me to believe that at least initially what he saw of Rena trying to kill him was real. On the other hand, the carnage after Keiichi beat Rena with the clock looked just too absurd to be true and with the final scene we know that Keiichi ended up L5. Why I believe that no third-party killer was involved is because I think neither Mion's nor Oishi's reaction match the reaction of an unsolved murder (which it would be if we go by the third-party killer theory) in respect to Rena's death. Especially Oishi's questioning line is in my eyes a fairly obvious rebuke of that theory. He didn't ask Keiichi whether he saw anybody else or whatever. He simply asked Keiichi what happened.

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

I think the person who killed Rika and satoko was Rena, the modus operandi is the same, and if Rika tried to help Rena, that is enough to trigger Rena against her.

I'm not sure about that. The way Mion phrased it, it sounded like they were still alive when Keiichi was found. Have to wonder what effect the 'remodeling' of Irie clinic had on Satoko's treatment. Maybe Satoko went L5 and killed Rika and herself.

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

I remember a stabbing victim here in my country, she received about 40 stab wounds. She survived, and was able to identify her attacker. And she ended up in the exact bedridden situation as K1 in the anime. So for me, it's believable he survived the 28+ stabs from Rena.

That depends on the location and depth of the stab wounds. It's hard to generalize like this. Although, I don't think if Keiichi really got stabbed like that he could sit on the bed like this within such a short timeframe.

[BWTraveller]

I wonder how long until they again explain Hinamizawa Syndrome. It's been long enough I've forgotten the levels. Hopefully this time they'll become a little clearer about just what it is and how it works.

Spoiler for the syndrome and my speculations:

Just in case anyone hasn't seen the original and doesn't know what the syndrome people are talking about is, thought I'd give a rundown, a mix of what's known and my personal speculations. There's a pathogen native to Hinamizawa. Pretty much anyone who stays in the town becomes quickly infected, but the pathogen remains dormant as long as they remain in the vicinity of the town. While exactly where one is infected and other aspects of the syndrome aren't clear, I suspect they infect the body somewhere along the "Fight or Flight" axis of glands and neural centers governing the body's response to fear. Once a person leaves the town for even a few days the pathogens switch permanently to an active state. After that, anything that triggers a heightened state of alertness, such as suspicions and uncertainties, aggravate the pathogens resulting in damage to the organs infected, in turn resulting in them becoming overactive. Each time a flareup occurs the organs become worse, resulting in severely excessive responses to stimulus. Before long any minor cause of suspicion can be treated like an attempt on their life, and eventually they become overwhelmed with paranoid delusions and hallucinations even without such triggers, until they become convinced that they have to kill in order to avoid being killed. In the later, and especially final stages, one becomes so overwhelmed that they begin to even hallucinate parasites or insects under their skin, and start to scratch their necks in an attempt to dig them out, until they reach their arteries and bleed to death.

In any case, could someone re-post the levels and their relative symptoms?

Also, as far as Rika and Satoko, I suspect Satoko was killed by someone, but once Satoko was dead Rika took her own life just like she'd done in previous arcs to begin her next loop. Really it seems like the last loop or two of the original were very lucky: everyone retained various memories that helped them to recognize when they were slipping into a dark place or when their actions could cause problems. That said, the very last one seemed to ignore questions of whether anyone remembered anything and simply had Rika tell everyone what was happening, what the villain's plan and theories were and then got their help. I was honestly surprised that this time she kept quiet. I wonder if it's because Hanyuu wasn't there (similarly I wonder if she'll ever be able to come back in full again, hope so I liked her).

[Jan-Poo]

Spoiler for Hinamizawa syndrome:

There's false information that was stated about the Hinamizawa syndrome in the visual novel, which is partly Hifumi's fault and Takano trying to make it seem real when it actually isn't. The whole queen theory is wrong and therefore leaving Hinamizawa isn't really a trigger for the syndrome, the trigger is simply stress which is why people that never actually left the village got affected. The unwritten rule that Hinamizawa's inhabitants shouldn't move away from the village was simply established a long time ago to prevent the virus from spreading outside.

Regarding the various arguments that Keichi couldn't know certain key factors therefore they must be real, I don't think they are particularly solid because we have proof that Keichi remembered events from Onikakushi. It is therefore entirely plausible that in his delusion he affixed memories of past iterations to the present without realizing it.

[MeoTwister5]

Well for all we know there might actually be a Queen this time...

That said, considering that it has been weeks since Keiichi recovered and Rika died and the village apparently still stands, the Queen theory most likely is still untrue.